Using a Dreamcast on the XRGB-Mini

[the_importer]

Hi there,

Considering that I love me some scanlines on 2D games and that my next HDTV won't have a VGA input, I'll need to find a way to hook my Dreamcast to my XRGB-Mini. I tried a VGA to Component convert from Monoprice and then hooked that to my XRGB-Mini. The results were not great, putting aside the fact that upscaling an upscaler is not a good idea to begin with, the Monorprice scaler is cheap, even by hooking it directly to my TV, the image was blurry. Also, the scanlines option with the XRGB-Mini does not work with the Monoprice scaler connected to it.

So ya, VGA to component, not a good idea, only thing left besides S-Video is RGB SCART. Sure, it's not progressive, but at lease it's RGB and the XRGB-Mini does deinterlace, so that should help. Anyone has any thoughts on this.

[HydrogLox]

There was a recent discussion here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1080271

Bottomline:

1. Get a Toro (with the optional SCART cable) that will allow you to pipe Dreamcast 15/31kHz RGBS into the XRGB-mini - and be prepared to be disappointed with the result for 480p material (when compared to straight VGA).
2. If you have a component input on your display use it with the help of a high quality VGA to component transcoder (which is lagfree) - your mistake was that you got an adapter/converter that included a scaler as well. In this scenario the Toro can supply the scan-lines.
3. Hook the Toro up to a plain non-scaling VGA-to-HDMI adapter. This will only support 480p material. Currently the "Manhattan" type is recommended (example).
4. Alternately use a Toro -> VGA-to-Component transcoder-> Component-to-HDMI - that can get around some of the issues that the plain VGA-to-HDMI solution can have.

[beharius]

Cheaper here:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Pri ... 32308.html

I like these too
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HDTV-108 ... 02134.html

[HydrogLox]

Reviews on amazon

HDTV 1080P Mini VGA to HDMI Audio / Video Converter Adapter with USB VGA & Audio Cable
Strongly suggests that the unit includes a scaler of unknown quality and delay - wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

New PC Laptop Computer Analog VGA to HDMI HDTV Converter + R/L Stereo Audio + Power Adpater With Retail Package
That is exactly what mine looks like - "Manhattan"-style but without the "Manhattan" (PCB is labelled V1.0). One year after purchase (and non-use) it is on the fritz - blacking out every 20 seconds for 2-3 seconds (haven't tried a different power supply yet).

[the_importer]

Thanks for the response guys. Regarding the expensive stuff, that's out of the question, one system that's already RGB compatible is not worth investing more than $40 to make it work. As for VGA to HDMI, this could be viable since the XRGB-Mini does have 2 HDMI input, so if I can get scanlines with those, then it would be good. That being said, has anyone tried a setup with a Dreamcast hooked via a non-expensive VGA to HDMI converter on an XRGB-Mini?

[HydrogLox]

Thanks for the response guys. Regarding the expensive stuff, that's out of the question, one system that's already RGB compatible is not worth investing more than $40 to make it work. As for VGA to HDMI, this could be viable since the XRGB-Mini does have 2 HDMI input, so if I can get scanlines with those, then it would be good. That being said, has anyone tried a setup with a Dreamcast hooked via a non-expensive VGA to HDMI converter on an XRGB-Mini?

• If you only get one thing get the Toro - and put up with 480p results on the XRGB-mini. Yes, that is more that $40 dollars - but that will get the best DC connection into the XRGB-mini.
• if you change your mind also get a non-scaling VGA-to-HDMI adapter for 480p content - and use the Toro the to generate the scan lines - DON'T feed the HDMI into the XRGB-mini - it's pointless and adds lag.

[the_importer]

Thanks for the response guys. Regarding the expensive stuff, that's out of the question, one system that's already RGB compatible is not worth investing more than $40 to make it work. As for VGA to HDMI, this could be viable since the XRGB-Mini does have 2 HDMI input, so if I can get scanlines with those, then it would be good. That being said, has anyone tried a setup with a Dreamcast hooked via a non-expensive VGA to HDMI converter on an XRGB-Mini?

• If you only get one thing get the Toro - and put up with 480p results on the XRGB-mini. Yes, that is more that $40 dollars - but that will get the best DC connection into the XRGB-mini.
• if you change your mind also get a non-scaling VGA-to-HDMI adapter for 480p content - and use the Toro the to generate the scan lines - DON'T feed the HDMI into the XRGB-mini - it's pointless and adds lag.

So you would suggest the Toro in order to get SCART RGB out on thye XRGB-Mini right? Then why not buy a $20 Dreamcast SCART cable? What makes the RGB SCART output of the Toro better?

[mickcris]

Thanks for the response guys. Regarding the expensive stuff, that's out of the question, one system that's already RGB compatible is not worth investing more than $40 to make it work. As for VGA to HDMI, this could be viable since the XRGB-Mini does have 2 HDMI input, so if I can get scanlines with those, then it would be good. That being said, has anyone tried a setup with a Dreamcast hooked via a non-expensive VGA to HDMI converter on an XRGB-Mini?

• If you only get one thing get the Toro - and put up with 480p results on the XRGB-mini. Yes, that is more that $40 dollars - but that will get the best DC connection into the XRGB-mini.
• if you change your mind also get a non-scaling VGA-to-HDMI adapter for 480p content - and use the Toro the to generate the scan lines - DON'T feed the HDMI into the XRGB-mini - it's pointless and adds lag.

So you would suggest the Toro in order to get SCART RGB out on thye XRGB-Mini right? Then why not buy a $20 Dreamcast SCART cable? What makes the RGB SCART output of the Toro better?

You can output VGA and RGB into the xrgb-minis rgb input with the Toro over scart. you cannot do that with a normal dreamcast scart cable.

[Fudoh]

The Toro's point is to get 480p RGBs from the DC instead of 480p RGBHV. Being able to run 15khz-only games without changing the cable is a nice side effect.

Since you already got a VGA box essentially all you need to do is convert RGBHV to RGBs. You do this using a passive combiner circuit ($2 in parts) or any Extron RGB interface. Replacing the current VGA box with a Toro isn't really necessary.

[the_importer]

The Toro's point is to get 480p RGBs from the DC instead of 480p RGBHV. Being able to run 15khz-only games without changing the cable is a nice side effect.

Since you already got a VGA box essentially all you need to do is convert RGBHV to RGBs. You do this using a passive combiner circuit ($2 in parts) or any Extron RGB interface. Replacing the current VGA box with a Toro isn't really necessary.

Not being an electronic guy, can you explain to me how a passive combiner circuit will allow me to connect my VGA Box to my XRGB-Mini?

[Fudoh]

The front RGB input (MiniDin8) on the Mini accepts 15khz, 24khz and 31khz RGB signals as long as they're in RGBs format (single sync line). Your standard DC VGA output does output RGBHV instead, so you need to combine H+V Sync into a single sync line.

[the_importer]

The front RGB input (MiniDin8) on the Mini accepts 15khz, 24khz and 31khz RGB signals as long as they're in RGBs format (single sync line). Your standard DC VGA output does output RGBHV instead, so you need to combine H+V Sync into a single sync line.

Let me rephrase my question. How will the VGA connection physically fit into the RGB port of the XRGB-mini? Will I need to create some sort of VGA to SCART cable with the passive combiner circuit?

[HydrogLox]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p1080580

This would save you from having to create a CSync circuit (and doing the VGA box RGB mod). ... so you would also need a SCART to Mini-DIN-8 cable.

The Toro has a SCART socket and you can currently order a male-to-male SCART cable with it.

[the_importer]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p1080580

This would save you from having to create a CSync circuit (and doing the VGA box RGB mod). ... so you would also need a SCART to Mini-DIN-8 cable.

The Toro has a SCART socket and you can currently order a male-to-male SCART cable with it.

If I buy an RGB SCART cable for Dreamcast, I get RGB in 480i, what does the SCART output of the Toro add more than this (please remember that I will not use the VGA output of the Toro and that the XRGB-Mini does provide me with scanline option)?

[HydrogLox]

The Toro supplies 31kHz RGB (480p) over the SCART socket with a combined sync - a regular DC SCART cable doesn't so that. Read the Toro page yet or any of the other hyperlinks that were provided?

SmashbxxXX all over again.

FYI: 15kHz RGB on the DC can be 480i or 240p - typically the game decides which.

http://www.xrz87.org/port-fx/240p.html

[the_importer]

The Toro supplies 31kHz RGB (480p) over the SCART socket with a combined sync - a regular DC SCART cable doesn't so that.

SmashbxxXX all over again.

Ah, well there's a valid argument, should have said this before. Also, what's a SmashbxxXX ?

[HydrogLox]

Also, what's a SmashbxxXX ?

An in-joke. You'll have to scour the XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !) topic to figure it out.

[the_importer]

Also, what's a SmashbxxXX ?

An in-joke. You'll have to scour the XRGB-mini Framemeister (now available !) topic to figure it out.

233 pages, forget it.

Anyway, I'll wait for a reply from Fudoh before looking into the Toro.

[Fudoh]

Toro is your easiest option, since it comes a number of features. It fits into an existing scart environment using a standard Scart to Scart connection cable. If that's worth it to you, go for it.

If you like to use your existing VGA box instead (maybe you got a Sega original one that's over $100 by now), you can go the sync combiner way. A passive combiner circuit can be worked into a HD15 to MiniDin8 cable for a direct connection or into a HD15 to Scart cable to work with an existing switcher or adapter you already got. Active combiners like the Extron interfaces output via BNC, so you need a BNC to Scart cable.

Also your existing VGA box doesn't let you use 15khz-only titles, but there aren't too many and it's the same situation you got right now....

[BuckoA51]

This topic is covered in the XRGB Mini Wiki

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Dreamcast

Google is your friend.

[ZellSF]

What's so bad about Dreamcast connected to XRGB-mini? Does it look worse than other 480p signals do on the XRGB-mini?