Best VGA solution for HDTVs without VGA ports?

[cr4zymanz0r]

This is more of a research effort on my part for when I end up buying a new HDTV. More and more HDTVs are phasing out VGA. Given the fact I won't be purchasing a new one in the very near future, it's highly unlikely I'll be able to find one with a VGA port when the time comes.

I've heard of VGA to component transcoder devices, as well as VGA to HDMI devices. However, I don't know the pros/cons of each or what a good quality device for each category would be.

Currently I have 3 VGA devices listed below that go to a VGA switchbox, then to a SLG-3000 scanline generator, then to my current HDTV.
1.) Dreamcast
2.) XRGB-3 (I know I could do DVI output and use a DVI to HDMI adapter, but that would not give me audio on HDMI)
3.) XPC-4 (using with a Sharp X68000)

I like having scanlines on Dreamcast, and a decent bit when using the X68000 also. So, if understand correctly any device that upscales (or upscales past 640x480) would completely mess up the look of the scanlines.

With these things in mind what are you opinions and experiences on the best route to take?

[BuckoA51]

any device that upscales (or upscales past 640x480) would completely mess up the look of the scanlines.

Why would you think that? Any TV has to upscale to it's native resolution anyway.

I'd say if you could find one an ABT scaler was the best choice for you (DVDO Edge or VP50 or 50 pro ideally) The Edge is quicker to sync up (good for games that swich between 240p and 480i) and generally a bit more stable but the VP50 has less input lag in certain situations.

[SGGG2]

Agreed, get another upscaler to chain your XRGB-3 and other sources into. You get all sorts of extra fine tuning options (ratio, cropping, scaling, etc.) I use an Optoma HD3000 and Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus while Bucko prefers DVDO devices. Fudoh goes into detail on his website.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[Fudoh]

agreed, something like a DVDO Edge would solve all your connectivity issues and it certainly won't mess with your scanline upscaling.

Other options are cheaper (with a 2nd hand Edge being around $200), but with the hardware level (and money) involved in your setup already, anything cheaper just won't cut it.

[cr4zymanz0r]

I know the gist of the DVDO Edge, but the only upscaling type devices I've ever dealt with are the XRGB-3 and the XPC-4. If i were to hook my Dreamcast VGA output to the DVDO Edge that seems pretty straight forward. Feed in 480p DC VGA and the DVDO Edge spits out 1080p HDMI with a handful of options I can change, correct?

The aspects I'm less sure of is when I hook up my XRGB-3 and/or XPC-4 to the DVDO Edge. I'll start with the XRGB-3. Can I just set the XRGB-3 to line doubling mode while it's fed into the DVDO Edge and end up with the same or potentially less latency as the XRGB-3 upscaling (B0?) mode straight to VGA input on a HDTV? On a side note that may or may not be relevant, I usually use the upscaling mode on my XRGB-3 because my Samsung HDTV has the video "bouncing" up and down on about half of my systems (mostly Nintendo systems) when using line doubling mode (yet it works fine on random LCD monitors I've tried). Also, my HDTV doesn't like the 1080p output of the XRGB so I have to use a different upscaled resolution such as 1024x768 or 1600x1200. Another potential issue I'm curious about are systems that historically need a higher AFC setting on the XRGB-3 for a completely stable picture when using RGB, such as PC-Engine and Neo Geo AES. I've read this can cause some TVs and devices to lose sync, so I didn't know if they would be an issue with the higher AFC setting when the XRGB-3 is chained to the DVDO Edge.

As for the XPC-4, how would this work when connecting it to the DVDO Edge? I believe the XPC-4 just upscales.....so is that just going to add more latency from the XPC-4 upscaling, then the DVDO Edge upscaling that?

Also, which route would give me less latency: The DVDO Edge, or some cheaper transcoding only solution?

[BuckoA51]

I'll start with the XRGB-3. Can I just set the XRGB-3 to line doubling mode while it's fed into the DVDO Edge and end up with the same or potentially less latency as the XRGB-3 upscaling (B0?) mode straight to VGA input on a HDTV?

Yes. Some systems are problematic (PC Engine) but with an Extron Interface too I even managed to get that working.

Input lag times for the Edge are as follows:-

PAL Systems 8ms
NTSC Systems 6ms
Certain NTSC systems (Saturn, PC Engine) 25ms

Consistently faster than XRGB3 in B0.

Another potential issue I'm curious about are systems that historically need a higher AFC setting on the XRGB-3 for a completely stable picture when using RGB, such as PC-Engine and Neo Geo AES. I've read this can cause some TVs and devices to lose sync, so I didn't know if they would be an issue with the higher AFC setting when the XRGB-3 is chained to the DVDO Edge.

You will also need an Extron Interface with the "Clamp sync timing" jumper in that case.

Also, which route would give me less latency: The DVDO Edge, or some cheaper transcoding only solution?

Potentially transcoding but with the XRGB3 there's no guarantee your TV will even accept the resulting output.