Does the technical side of gaming kind of bring down the fun

[evil_ash_xero]

I collect the games too. But I won't be like "I cannot play this game, unless it's the real version".

It's like not listening to music, if you don't own the physical copy.

But I'm a collector, and I do try to get every game that I like. But some are just too hard to find right now, or I don't have the money to purchase them. I have no problem with using EverDrives.

Honestly, whenever they come up with running CD Rom games off of Hard Disk (on systems other than a PS2), I will be very happy to do that as well. Won't have to worry about the lasers anymore. One less thing to be OCD about.

I always wanted to play all my games on one system too. But input delay, and inaccuracy has kept that dream...well, a dream.

[Xan]

Recently I had some thoughts that fit this thread well; I was thinking about what hardware I'd hypothetically need to ensure the best possible (yet still feasible to achieve, with no hacks, mods or anything involved) experience for a Metroid Prime replay on GC, which is one of my favorite games of all time. My current setup is just a a PAL GC with a PVM through RGB, and 2.1 speakers. The list of stuff to buy would be something like this: a NTSC-U GC, the NTSC-U version of the game, the ludicrously expensive GC component cables, a transcoder to use on a 31 kHz CRT, an audio receiver and a set of quality 5.1 speakers.

Without even calculating how much all of this would cost, let alone the time to find deals overseas for some of this stuff, this is just insane and perhaps a good example of the lengths that people could go to achieve perfection on their video game setups.

[andykara2003]

I have all that (minus the 5.1 setup) running on a NEC XV29.

That's one of my favourite games as well - but I tend to play it as part of the MP trilogy on the Wii for the incredible Wiimote control setup - one of the few stellar uses of that controller. On the advanced settings it's a pleasure to play and much better than the GC controls - and any other console FPS I've ever played.

You lose a small amount of sharpness as it's on a Wii (doesn't bother me particularly especially as a good 31khz CRT is so forgiving of gen 6 stuff anyway) and you can softmod a wii & buy a component or VGA cable for a few quid - a much cheaper option

[Xan]

DPLII would be crucial for a "perfect" experience in this game, I think. I've heard it uses the rear speakers to great effect.

The Wii Trilogy I'm not a big fan of - having played Prime 3 last year, I still love the original control scheme as it's just a lot less tiresome and works perfectly for me. Also, the Wii version of Metroid Prime is missing a bunch of graphical effects, such as Samus' arm cannon freezing when charging the Ice Beam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-MldXzMsNQ

[kamiboy]

Agree, the two original Metroid Primes were designed around the Gamecube control scheme. Throwing Prime 3 controls on top of them ruins much of their design genius.

[andykara2003]

Interesting, cheers Xan - I didn't know that. Reading up on it a little, It appears that the textures and shadows have been upgraded to be sharper on the Wii version and bloom lighting was added which looks fantastic. The doors open much faster apparently which is nice - so I guess you lose and gain elements but if you prefer the GC controls then that's the way to go obviously.

Good component to VGA transcoders are expensive and hard to find used as well. Crescendo are the only company I could find that still make really decent units and they sell at about $160 - it was worth it for me for the quality. Like you say, it all adds up to a very expensive Metroid Prime playthrough!

Kamiboy - of course it's always going to be a matter of personal preference but in the press, the Wii Prime controls were almost universally regarded as being superior to the Gamecube's.

[bobrocks95]

DPLII would be crucial for a "perfect" experience in this game, I think. I've heard it uses the rear speakers to great effect.

Retro Studios brought Dolby engineers in to help them with the sound mixing for Pro Logic II, so it does indeed sound amazing.

[BuckoA51]

Good component to VGA transcoders are expensive and hard to find used as well.

VGA to component are, but for component to VGA the Startech one works perfectly well and won't break the bank.

[andykara2003]

I did see that one but it looks a bit cheap & seems to get quite a bit of negative feedback… It seems to work OK for some people but not others & apparently has image & reliability issues.

The crescendo is a very high quality transcoder & is one of the ones Fudoh recommends as well as Audio Authority, Burosch Con-1 and Neoya X2VGA2. It depends how serious you are about your setup I suppose. If your CRT & rest of your kit is of decent quality, though, it would be a shame to skimp on such a crucial part of the signal chain.

[kamiboy]

Kamiboy - of course it's always going to be a matter of personal preference but in the press, the Wii Prime controls were almost universally regarded as being superior to the Gamecube's.

The press are not game designers, I wouldn't wipe my ass with what they think. But we digress.

[andykara2003]

I agree - I was just pointing out that I don't think you can categorically say that the Wii controls ruin the game's design genius. That's more a matter of opinion - the fact that the general opinion was to the contrary just adds weight to that. I personally think it was a big improvement - but I respect your viewpoint as well.

[BazookaBen]

DPLII would be crucial for a "perfect" experience in this game, I think. I've heard it uses the rear speakers to great effect.

Retro Studios brought Dolby engineers in to help them with the sound mixing for Pro Logic II, so it does indeed sound amazing.

The one thing a PLII is that it seems the low frequencies disappear when sounds move to the back speakers. I remember this with waterfalls in Wind Waker. The would be extra bassy when in front of you, but then would be tinny once they were behind you. Not sure if that was the game developers fault, or a limitation of PLII.

Good component to VGA transcoders are expensive and hard to find used as well. Crescendo are the only company I could find that still make really decent units and they sell at about $160 - it was worth it for me for the quality.

Actually, Kim Beumer (owner of Crescendo and designer of the products) died a couple months ago, so now the Crescendo Systems website is gone. There are a few still for sell on Amazon, but that's about it. So now good analog converter are only really available used.

[andykara2003]

Actually, Kim Beumer (owner of Crescendo and designer of the products) died a couple months ago, so now the Crescendo Systems website is gone. There are a few still for sell on Amazon, but that's about it. So now good analog converter are only really available used.

Wow, very sorry to hear it. I was only chatting to him a few months back - a very talented guy.

[bobrocks95]

The one thing a PLII is that it seems the low frequencies disappear when sounds move to the back speakers. I remember this with waterfalls in Wind Waker. The would be extra bassy when in front of you, but then would be tinny once they were behind you. Not sure if that was the game developers fault, or a limitation of PLII.

The rear channels have limited bandwidth, so unfortunately that's a limitation of PLII. Would've been nice if every sixth gen console had Dolby Digital like the Xbox, but PLII was way better than nothing.

[austin532]

The one thing a PLII is that it seems the low frequencies disappear when sounds move to the back speakers. I remember this with waterfalls in Wind Waker. The would be extra bassy when in front of you, but then would be tinny once they were behind you. Not sure if that was the game developers fault, or a limitation of PLII.

The rear channels have limited bandwidth, so unfortunately that's a limitation of PLII. Would've been nice if every sixth gen console had Dolby Digital like the Xbox, but PLII was way better than nothing.

I'm not sure about that. I think it all depends on what is being played. PLII sounds great with a 5.1 setup for movies and other systems. It's the Gamecube's mini-disc limitations that effect games the most. It was the weakest of the 3 systems when it came to the sound department. It does not have an optical port and only supports PLII over Analog audio cables.

If I remember correctly I don't think XBOX supports true DD. It's more like simulated. That being said the XBOX still sounds the best.

[BazookaBen]

I'm not sure about that. I think it all depends on what is being played. PLII sounds great with a 5.1 setup for movies and other systems. It's the Gamecube's mini-disc limitations that effect games the most. It was the weakest of the 3 systems when it came to the sound department. It does not have an optical port and only supports PLII over Analog audio cables.

If I remember correctly I don't think XBOX supports true DD. It's more like simulated. That being said the XBOX still sounds the best.

I don't think the mini-disc format has anything to do with the quality of the surround sound. It actually sounds quite good, just in certain scenarios you will notice that certain frequencies are missing. I've noticed this in PS2 games as well.

And if you plug your Xbox into a system with optical, it will say Dolby Digital. So I think that qualifies as "real" dolby digital.

[bobrocks95]

I'm not sure about that. I think it all depends on what is being played. PLII sounds great with a 5.1 setup for movies and other systems. It's the Gamecube's mini-disc limitations that effect games the most. It was the weakest of the 3 systems when it came to the sound department. It does not have an optical port and only supports PLII over Analog audio cables.

If I remember correctly I don't think XBOX supports true DD. It's more like simulated. That being said the XBOX still sounds the best.

The Xbox is definitely true Dolby Digital, it was the first console to be able to encode it in real time (PS2 supported it in cutscenes as well).

The only thing the mini-disc would have changed with regards to sound is the number of songs you could fit onto the disc, and the max sampling rate/quality of them. This wouldn't change the quality of the surround effect, like sounds cutting out, just the overall audio quality in general. It's definitely the limited bandwidth of PLII.

Oh, and the Cube has digital output if you want to mod it in, it's a bit tricky though http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendogcda (Component cable not needed, you can pull the lines from the underside of the digital out port)

[panzeroceania]

Yeah, the mess of cables and adapters actually bother me much more. That and dust, dust is the bane of my existence.

http://www.canlessair.com

your best friend is here. it is electric, no propellant or chemicals, and it's powerful

The list of stuff to buy would be something like this: a NTSC-U GC, the NTSC-U version of the game, the ludicrously expensive GC component cables, a transcoder to use on a 31 kHz CRT, an audio receiver and a set of quality 5.1 speakers.

what about 11.2 sound setup

[bobrocks95]

http://www.canlessair.com

your best friend is here. it is electric, no propellant or chemicals, and it's powerful

I'm allergic to dust mites, so kicking the dust into the air for me to hack on doesn't sound like my idea of fun exactly :\
Now if they could make a dust sucker that worked just as well (inb4 "vacuum cleaner")...

[kamiboy]

I think I rather invest in an air purifier instead. Those remove dust particles from the air so there is less to settle on things.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

Just look at the time ratio between facilitating your hobby to actually playing. If it is up to a maximum of 50% / 50% you're alright. If the left value is greater than that you may have a problem.

[NightSprinter]

It only really sucked tor me when mods either didn't work or caused some irrepairable damage (lost the luma pin of my SNES Mini video encoder). When I got something I wanted to work (a mod done right, or a video editing setting giving the quality I want), it brings a lot of joy to me.

[neorichieb1971]

I wonder how many people got into the technical side only to break their pride and joy?

Does having the best AV make you a better gamer?

[Ed Oscuro]

I wonder how many people got into the technical side only to break their pride and joy?

Lol, always looking to put a damper on the festivities huh

I happen to agree though - if it ain't broke...I'm very happy with the A/V Famicom output. NES toastin' also isn't too bad for me!

[kamiboy]

Only system I ever trashed was already sort of broken. Sadly a PC Engine that would freeze randomly. My many ham fisted attempts at finding the issue finally rendered it completely useless. Other than that all my mod jobs have been going well.

Well, except for the one or two times I tried to sell off excess modded systems of mine who had the uncanny ability to come out of the postal process with something broken, though easily fixable.

Now the thought of selling a modded system simply mortifies me, how do people life off of doing this stuff?

[ApolloBoy]

Now the thought of selling a modded system simply mortifies me, how do people life off of doing this stuff?

If you pack the system well and do quality work, you won't have to worry about that. I did a lot of mods for people up until a few months ago and I don't think I ever had a console that was broken in transit.

[kamiboy]

The mods I do are perfectly fit for my personal use as they have never been known to fail, then again I am not in the habit of subjecting them to the tussle and abuse that packages normally go through.

I suppose doing mods for other people requires a lot more precautions, in any case I am happy that I do not have to live off of such a profession.

[Josh128]

It was a complete pain in the ass at first, then became fun and then addicting once I realized what a difference a proper RGB setup looked like on my 720p plasma. Composite is just simply not acceptable-- its just that bad for NES, SNES, and Genesis systems.

They really screwed the pooch (or us US gamers) when they decided to eliminate S-Video ports from HDTVs-- while inferior in color clarity to component or RGB, they provide EXCELLENT visual clarity which is comparable to both.

Had Svideo been an option on my TV, the only systems that would have needed tinkering would have been the NES, which was and is the absolute worst to mod anyway, and the Genesis, which only needed a SCART cable.

Once you get a good setup though, it is an absolute joy to play and be proud of at the same time!

[neorichieb1971]

I am in the camp that says "if the nirvana exists someone else has already achieved it". If that statement is true then you have someone to copy, a budget has already been established, the technical side has already been overcome and the results are substantiated and verified.

Once that is all set in stone, I jump in.

I would prefer Sony/Hitachi/Toshiba/Panasonic to just bring out their own ultimate setup for retro gear though. It shouldn't be left to mere mortals to find solutions for this kind of stuff. It amazes me that not one TV on the block has a retro selling angle in its marketing campaign. That should change today. After all, all these solutions people are finding are usually with expensive or dying equipment. If you need to replace some of it, it comes at a cost. We need solutions out there that work with currently available technology. Everyone should achieve a 7/10 grade without even trying. When I started out gaming I never envisaged myself holding a soldering iron playing "Operation".

[Ed Oscuro]

Quality issues are one thing, but a good monitor or television for handling composite can salvage most of the signal.

Most of what I am now concerned with is stuff that I put on a distinctly higher tier - things that affect my reaction or health. Reducing eye strain, across the spectrum of gaming, is going to be more a matter of dealing with 3D games properly. Of course there are edge cases where you could get some eye strain from old consoles but this is going to be pretty rare overall.

They really screwed the pooch (or us US gamers) when they decided to eliminate S-Video ports from HDTVs

That mainly affects users of y/c devices, which are relatively few and far between. Probably owners of large VHS format video collections were more influential here - still not enough to warrant that extra materials cost on HDTVs.

Most HDTVs already have a much better option than S-Video available in YPbPr component, into which you can transcode RGBs pretty easily. This means that only the few rare systems which can't do RGBs or YPbPr are left out, like the N64. Actually I'm not sure if I can think of any others.

If anything, dropping VGA is probably the more problematic recent loss of a connector, though thankfully affected users should be fewer as people upgrade their PCs.