Does the technical side of gaming kind of bring down the fun

[Ed Oscuro]

What brings down the fun is everything breaking over time. Like, fuck, can I find a decently-priced Xbox that has a working DVD drive? Or at least a drive that I can get working again by servicing it?

The technical side helps keep stuff from breaking, and so I think it helps keep the fun going.

[blizzz]

I guess living in the PAL world brought one good thing, RGB SCART capable CRTs. Just use a SCART cable and you have the best quality. Even though I own a Framemeister and all the other fancy stuff, when I want to play a game I simply plug my console with SCART into my CRT. The geometry on one corner isn't great, but who cares. It's a nice division between being a perfectionist with the Framemeister, LED TV, capture cards etc and actually playing the games.

The downside is that I have to import all games, which is way more expensive than buying them locally and some are so rare that I can only play them on Everdrives.

[evil_ash_xero]

Nope, I play the real thing or nothing at all.

No reason you can't have both.

Absolutely. I mean, it plays just the same. You just have the menu at the beginning. And you get to play it on the actual hardware, with no input delay or anything.

What brings down the fun is everything breaking over time. Like, fuck, can I find a decently-priced Xbox that has a working DVD drive? Or at least a drive that I can get working again by servicing it?

The technical side helps keep stuff from breaking, and so I think it helps keep the fun going.

For me, the worrying about the CRTs is what bugs me the most. I have two of every system, so I'm backed up on that.

But they don't make CRTs anymore. People don't tend to ship them. When they do, and aren't properly packed, they get damaged. In the area I live in, I have to go about 2 or 3 hours in a UHaul to get a decent TV, off of Ebay or Craigslist.
It just freaking sucks.

I'm hoping the NES HDMI, where you can adjust interpolation and scanlines will be a good solution. Then you just need to worry about getting a sub one frame monitor.
If that pans out, hopefully they will start making them for other systems. Future proofing.

[Xan]

I really hope the Framemeister is not the last word in gaming scalers. An XRGB-4 as a real high-end unit (not just in terms of pricing) and without all of those current compromises would be fantastic.

[evil_ash_xero]

Yeah, the added input delay isn't welcome at all.

[Xyga]

It's okay if you have a near-lagless display (although most are only monitors).

[kamiboy]

For your cart based systems, get EverDrives, and keep your games put away. That's what I do. Never have to worry about damaging them.

I recently did this for all my 8/16 bit systems. I have had all my games packed away in dozens of boxes for two years now and finding the game I am looking for is often a pain in the ass.

Not to mention the ability to play some games with a higher market value than I am willing to pay, as well as translation patches and such.

For me, the worrying about the CRTs is what bugs me the most. I have two of every system, so I'm backed up on that.

But they don't make CRTs anymore. People don't tend to ship them. When they do, and aren't properly packed, they get damaged. In the area I live in, I have to go about 2 or 3 hours in a UHaul to get a decent TV, off of Ebay or Craigslist.
It just freaking sucks.

I'm hoping the NES HDMI, where you can adjust interpolation and scanlines will be a good solution. Then you just need to worry about getting a sub one frame monitor.
If that pans out, hopefully they will start making them for other systems. Future proofing.

For my tastes nothing short of playing on an actual 15khz CRT cuts it. Everything else I've tried, and I've tried a few, are half measures that fall so short as to be unacceptable.

Luckily I have a stockpile of CRT's here that should last me at least a decade or two. After that, well, I am not the type to plan too far ahead.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's okay if you have a near-lagless display (although most are only monitors).

Yeah, but then, why not just use an emulator?

This input delay is seriously getting old.

I mean, I want a replacement for CRTs. Which means no lag. Otherwise, it's just a waste of time. Well, for me anyway. And I have an XRGB 3. I'm surprised the Mini doesn't have the lagless option. Weak.

[Xan]

Emulators are much worse, VSync and all that. Try the manual lag test in the 240p suite some time for fun.

[Xyga]

Agreed, the average windows emulators experience sometimes means more lag than a good scaler+screen setup can achieve (there are workarounds ok, but definitely not for every emulator).

Also I find messing with emulator settings, roms, shaders and stuff even more annoying and time-consuming than tinkering dem machines.

Plus with real hardware I am not limited by cpu/gfx power.

[JBC]

I use emulators for all 16-bit & below systems. I collect the actual consoles & carts, but there's no sense in being assed to hook up even more stuff to my cabinet when emulation is so good on a hacked Wii w/ Homebrew Channel. I don't even use most of my modern discs since most consoles can be opened to allow the games ripped straight off the disc into a hard drive - effectively decreasing load times & obliterating the possibility of laser failure, disc scratching, etc. My first move is always modding, then my pretty little games sit on the shelf for me to take comfort in knowing they're all mine

<3 WiiMednafen

[kamiboy]

You are a monster.

.
..
...

I kid, I kid.

[broken harbour]

I used to be a no emulator guy, but I think it has a place. I tend to emulate NES stuff nowadays because finding a non-trashed system that still works is getting harder and harder, then there's RGB modding to do... and I have no more free RGB spots on my switcher so... bah screw it, NES emulation is effectively perfect these days.

Everdrives are great too, Mint CIB collecting for 8 an 16 bit systems is getting nutty expensive.

[Xan]

For me it's the opposite, I've used emulators for some time in the last decade and then decided that you only live once and might as well go for the real hardware. I remember having nothing but screen tearing issues on NES emulators, and turning VSync on just causes input lag to skyrocket (I think I've said this too much on this forum, lol).

And once you deal with 5th gen stuff, the visual experience is dramatically different from a real system on a 15 kHz CRT. There really aren't any accuracy-centric emulators for this gen yet, all of them seem to be focused on adding filtering, high resolutions and the like, which I always thought of as utterly pointless, as it only makes the visual "flaws" of these games much more apparent.

I think the real place of emulators, as far as I'm concerned, is for online play. There I don't even really care about accuracy. Unfortunately development in this area doesn't seem too active these days; not that I'm complaining about that, given the difficulty of the task.

[JBC]

I just want to ensure that my collection stays mint & my stuff will last. When I see a rare item at the retro store Indiana Jones' famous line always comes to mind, "It belongs in a museum!"

[BazookaBen]

I tend to emulate NES stuff nowadays because finding a non-trashed system that still works is getting harder and harder,

I bet these "trashed" NES systems just needed to have their 72-pin connectors cleaned or replaced. Most of these consoles are going to outlast us, because they don't have finicky things like hearts or kidneys.

[broken harbour]

I tend to emulate NES stuff nowadays because finding a non-trashed system that still works is getting harder and harder,

I bet these "trashed" NES systems just needed to have their 72-pin connectors cleaned or replaced. Most of these consoles are going to outlast us, because they don't have finicky things like hearts or kidneys.

True, I just don't like yellowed or busted up exteriors.

Also, I've never had luck replacing the connectors... I replaced them a few times and my NES's are still tempermental.

[bobrocks95]

Really the only things that won't last in old consoles are the lasers in disc drives. Most everything else is either easily replaceable (capacitors) or just won't be breaking in our lifetimes.

[Xan]

I replaced the connector in mine just yesterday, and it seems to have fixed the system not starting up or resetting at times. Not fond of the death grip these aftermarket connectors have on cartridges though, it would be unacceptable if I'd use real carts instead of an Everdrive.

[BazookaBen]

Really the only things that won't last in old consoles are the lasers in disc drives.

I've always wondered, is it impossible to just stream the data from an ISO to the data wires on an optical drive? I mean, I know some serious hacking would be involved, but why hasn't this happened yet? Something like that would save the Sega Saturns and TG-16's of the world.

[blizzz]

There are several projects for disc emulation. GDEMU for the Dreamcast is already available. PSIO for the PS1 is nearly finished and there is also the RheaV2 project for Sega Saturn.

[Bancho]

I really love the technical side of retro gaming. It opens another side of enjoyment for me. I've always been one to tinker with things and trying to get the best PQ out of a console is kinda a new hobby for me. On the downside this has lead me to find a side of me that is fussy as hell when it comes to CRT geometry. It drives me mad. Luckily my CRT has awesome geometry

Its the satisfaction knowing i was able to get a system to play games i love in the best possible quality that i really enjoy.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

My incessant fiddling with things occasionally leads to me breaking them, which is no fun at all. But when the tinkering and setting up and modding goes right it's the most satisfying feeling. My present set up is far from perfect but it makes me happy just knowing it's there.

[quash]

Bring down the fun? Nah, it enhances it.

Granted, I'm not as much of a purist as I used to be. Seeing as I don't have the kind of space I used to (not to mention I have a much more active lifestyle than a few years ago), I tend to look for as close to a one size fits all solution as possible.

For now, that's a 24" IPS with a DVDO Edge for sixth-gen consoles and a pair of headphones. I refuse to emulate DC/PS2 at this point, it's just too shoddy to be used for any kind of serious play (it's good enough for JRPG's and whatnot, though).

Right now I'm in the process of modifying all of my consoles except my PS3. Still waiting on a decent flash storage solution for the Dreamcast (a mass produced one, at least), but everything else is getting the works: new case, fans, hard drive, disk drive, modchip.

[RocketBelt]

For now, that's a 24" IPS with a DVDO Edge for sixth-gen consoles and a pair of headphones. I refuse to emulate DC/PS2 at this point, it's just too shoddy to be used for any kind of serious play (it's good enough for JRPG's and whatnot, though).

Same, except for a 28" IPS and DVDO VP50. Couldn't be more pleased with it. Looks as good as, if not better than my old 21" Sony Trinitron with RGB. And once it's set up there's no annoying tinkering necessary, just plug in and switch on.
After the CRT broke down a few years ago everything looked so bad on the LCD I was ready to throw out the PS2 and all the rest. Thanks to fudoh and his website and this forum I just enjoy it all again. So no the technical side of gaming brought the fun back.

[Ed Oscuro]

Really the only things that won't last in old consoles are the lasers in disc drives. Most everything else is either easily replaceable (capacitors) or just won't be breaking in our lifetimes.

The lasers are easily replaceable for the time being - it's the motors that are a more difficult problem, even though the actual part (assuming it's the tray motor or the belt, and not the ICs on the board) is probably pretty cheap, because the parts are hard to source and must be desoldered / resoldered on those drives. PS2 is probably a bit similar.

[bobrocks95]

Really the only things that won't last in old consoles are the lasers in disc drives. Most everything else is either easily replaceable (capacitors) or just won't be breaking in our lifetimes.

The lasers are easily replaceable for the time being - it's the motors that are a more difficult problem, even though the actual part (assuming it's the tray motor or the belt, and not the ICs on the board) is probably pretty cheap, because the parts are hard to source and must be desoldered / resoldered on those drives. PS2 is probably a bit similar.

Replacement lasers for old game consoles has to be a really niche market right? I get the feeling what you see online might be new old stock.

And the motors wearing down because they're physical parts is definitely something that will happen, and I overlooked it because I've only ever run into a console with a crappy, weak laser, not one with a broken belt or other parts (haven't had the good fortune to own a Famicom Disk System). Maybe weak lasers is more of a problem now, but over time motor failures will be more and more common? That or I'm just a lucky person.

[Ed Oscuro]

Lots of these laser assemblies are made in big quantities. I dunno, maybe everybody should stock up while they're cheap.

I expect that what we're going to see is more of a shortage, especially long-term, of the lasers which indeed must be difficult to manufacture.

But don't discount even something simple-seeming like a rubber belt or a motor not ruining the fun just as decisively. I expect that DIY solutions could happen in both places - ideally we'd just have somebody find a way to retrofit more modern drives (I've heard there is a particular LG drive that can be lightly modified to work) or even just come up with a wholly new replacement.

[ZellSF]

When I want to play a game I'll invest some time in making sure I have the optimal setup for it. I think that's part of the fun.

And a lot of stuff you can do on the technical side greatly enhances the game. Think of the people running HD game consoles via composite on TVs with 100ms input lag. I think we're all happy we know better than that.

Less fun when I have to buy new hardware because something is broken, of course.


Edit: and the sooner CD/DVD drives die off and are replaced by optical disc emulators the better. I wish they were LESS durable so more people would be interested in optical disc emulator projects.

[chronicdog]

I wont go back to emulators after getting a proper CRT. In fact, its made me want to play 360 shooters properly, which meant getting a Extron box to convert 360 VGA to 240p, then BNC to SCART cable, SCART to component transcoder... suffice to say hooking it all up is indeed a bit of a buzzkill and the whole setup takes up WAY too much space and cant really be hidden properly, lol.

For me the biggest drawback is all my friends who game think Im a bit loopy for going to all this effort. Most people just dont "get" retro gaming, let alone why you would want to convert a 360 to low res on it. People see a CRT and they are all like "dude wtf" especially anyone under 30 and never played anything before PS1, forget it, they just laugh and shake their heads at my pile of hand picked NES carts