The Future of CAVE in the Videogame Industry

[chronicdog]

This post was originally a response in the thread about poorly received mobile game Mushi Duel, but it went into some business development concepts which were decidedly off topic.

It is sad, but its business guys. Selling the Mushi name for exploitation by a shovelware dev was purely a business deal. CAVE isnt some Touhou like art project, its a for profit company that sells videogame software internationally. Sadly their roots are in arcade dev which is dead. CAVE has to do what they have to do to make money, thats the purpose of their existence. We should root for all their projects to make money, cause cash ins like this can fund real games. Unfortunately, when the cash in product is of very poor quality as well, it does nothing but bring the company down further. This is how companies die. In retrospect, it was a deal they should not have made or at least asked for more stringent quality control in the final product.

If I had any say at what was going on at CAVE, my first order of business would be port their entire back catalog to Steam with leaderboards and achievements. It would be cheap and easy to do. Despite what some people say, I think it would actually sell pretty well provided the pricing was appropriate and they took part in Steam sales. It would get hyped among the very influential hardcore fanbase.

Use some of this money and publicity to make a new AAA STG game for PC, PS4 and XB1 with state of the art graphics that can appeal to everyone from novice players to true experts. Galaga for the modern gamer. If Euroshmup crap like SineMora and marginal efforts like Resogun can get insanely hyped up just over merely good quality modern graphics and simplistic gameplay loops, the best STG dev of all time can surely turn a profit if they make a truly great new AAA product. In fact, it doesnt even need to turn a huge profit, even if it was only marginally profitable but sold a lot of copies, they can use that hype to develop actually high quality mobile spinoffs that are ridiculously profitable.

Look at what SNK did with Metal Slug Defense. They took an aging if not vintage franchise and turned it into a decently fun tower defense game for mobile which sold 15M+ copies. Think about that.

[Pretas]

Sadly their roots are in arcade dev which is dead.

Dedicated JAMMA PCBs (of which SDOJ was the last) are dead; networked PC hardware-based digital platforms like NESiCA, e-amuse and All Net P-RAS Multi are not. Cave already dipped their toes into this model with the NESiCA version of Akai Katana Shin, and would likely have turned out at least one other such release had M2 not absorbed all their talent.

Cave games would not sell on Steam and would not be worth the development resources for two reasons:
- Everyone who wants to play them already has them on MAME and/or console ports.
- No one in Japan gives a shit about Steam, other than a small handful of fans of Western gaming (read: not STGs).

With the loss of talent from their arcade and console divisions, Cave will not be making any more games of serious interest to this forum for the foreseeable future.

[KAI]

There's no future for the dead.

[Mortificator]

Cave is so dead man
miss them
miss them
MISS THEM

[Captain]

This thread's title is nonexistent.

[MathU]

Look at what SNK did with Metal Slug Defense.

Raped Metal Slug?

[Strikers1945guy]

Topics like this make me feel like whatever cave games i do buy on mamma hardware i should take to my grave as they will just keep getting harder to come by

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Look at what SNK did with Metal Slug Defense. They took an aging if not vintage franchise and turned it into a decently fun tower defense game for mobile which sold 15M+ copies. Think about that.

Wrong, it's a free download. There's in app stuff you can buy with real money but that goes for pretty much every ios game.

[BulletMagnet]

It would get hyped among the very influential hardcore fanbase.

I don't think the hardcore fanbase in this case is large or respected enough to be very influential outside its own city limits. As much as I'd like to see Cave or other companies like it make enough money on side ventures to keep putting out the types of games we here enjoy, they'd already been attempting to do that for years before they abandoned the market, and, well, here we are.

[Xyga]

Cave are so No Future all employees are punks.

[KAI]

Dude, they are not punk at all.

[clairobskur]

steam? oh god, no! i hope they will never consider steam (or pc)

[DoomsDave]

steam? oh god, no! i hope they will never consider steam (or pc)

Damn. Sucks to be you.

[Squire Grooktook]

- Everyone who wants to play them already has them on MAME and/or console ports.

I don't know if this is entirely valid. I think most people around here would be willing to double dip for the games.

[chempop]

But when is ESPGaluda 3 coming out?

[Teufel_in_Blau]

May I remind you that the last CAVE shmup was released in April 2012 in the arcades? Going by Wikipedia, the only time when they took a 'longer break' was between DonPachi (1995) and DoDonPachi (1997) and Guwange (1999) and Progear (2001). CAVE took maximal two years breaks from shmup development. Aside from that they released one, two or even three games per year since 1995. April 2015 will mark the first point in time in CAVEs history when they haven't released a new shmup in THREE years.

It's over. Let it go. Only hope I have left is M2.

[Casey120]

Lies !!!


Saidaioujou Black label is due any day now, Mamoru Furukawa is on that shit .

[trap15]

- Everyone who wants to play them already has them on MAME and/or console ports.

I don't know if this is entirely valid. I think most people around here would be willing to double dip for the games.

"People around here" is like 30 people max. That's not a justifiable expense. I don't know why people cling on with fingers in their ears screaming cave's not dead I'd buy their games on steam wah wah. Cave's arcade division closed like a year ago, all their talent moved on to M2. It's dead, accept it.

[DestroyTheCore]

- Everyone who wants to play them already has them on MAME and/or console ports.

I don't know if this is entirely valid. I think most people around here would be willing to double dip for the games.

"People around here" is like 30 people max. That's not a justifiable expense. I don't know why people cling on with fingers in their ears screaming cave's not dead I'd buy their games on steam wah wah. Cave's arcade division closed like a year ago, all their talent moved on to M2. It's dead, accept it.

If only someone had the talent to emulate Cave games to PC, more particularly the CV1000 catalog...

[ptoing]

Not rooting for Cave here in terms of new shmups. Just want to know who exactly moved over to M2?

[Pretas]

Not rooting for Cave here in terms of new shmups. Just want to know who exactly moved over to M2?

Seems to have been everyone from the arcade and "consumer" (console) divisions.

[Squire Grooktook]

- Everyone who wants to play them already has them on MAME and/or console ports.

I don't know if this is entirely valid. I think most people around here would be willing to double dip for the games.

"People around here" is like 30 people max. That's not a justifiable expense.

True, but those 30 people are the only ones who have console ports in the first place. I don't know about Mame though.

You're right, probably not worth the expense.

[MathU]

So CAVE is going to ruin M2 now? Damn that sucks, I'd been hoping Konami might commission them for Gradius VI some day.

[DanMagoo]

steam? oh god, no! i hope they will never consider steam (or pc)

I have no clue why people are so down on the idea of Cave on Steam, particularly on this forum.

It is a known fact that the Xbox exclusivity of Cave games prevented them reaching a wider audience. A PC release would go some way to correcting that problem, although it would be late in the day.

More players = more hype for this tiny genre that many consider a throwback at best.

It can only be a good thing.

[Skykid]

It is a known fact that the Xbox exclusivity of Cave games prevented them reaching a wider audience.

Is it?

I was rather surprised by all the international releases and positive media coverage. Much more than I expected.

[DanMagoo]

Is it?

I was rather surprised by all the international releases and positive media coverage. Much more than I expected.

You would be, our kid.

Fact of the matter is that if you are a PS3/PC owner you missed out big time last generation.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

I would rather they went out of business, by choice, than to see the integrity of their work compromised. I am being selfish perhaps, but I consider their games to be art and defiling art is bad. I think they should bow out honorably to preserve their legacy.

[Strikers1945guy]

So CAVE is going to ruin M2 now? Damn that sucks, I'd been hoping Konami might commission them for Gradius VI some day.

Why do you hate cave so much?

[trap15]

Because they suck. Honestly, I actively dislike Ikeda's game design. I just want more YGW in my life. Or not plenty of magic already, enough to last a lifetime.

[Icarus]

I would rather they went out of business, by choice, than to see the integrity of their work compromised. I am being selfish perhaps, but I consider their games to be art and defiling art is bad. I think they should bow out honorably to preserve their legacy.

If the cow is still breathing, milk it for all it's worth. Then beat it repeatedly with a stick like the proverbial dead horse.
- Lessons from the Damien Hirst School of Art

I just want more YGW in my life. Or not plenty of magic already, enough to last a lifetime.

YGW is love, YGW is life. :3