Pre-release/developmental material on Contra

[Skykid]

Play something better. There's lots.

Nah. Like any number of "good but not great" or "great but not perfect" games brought up in the action platformer thread, Uprising feels unique and stands on its own, enough that there's not anything else that can be played as a better surrogate. The only other side scroller I can think of that has half as enjoyable air dashy action is Mega Man X, which has its own host of (much worse) flaws on top of not being an arcade game (and therefore boring). In fact, I dare say the feeling of just dashing forward and blazing a path through everything in Uprising far outclasses even the speediest moments in the X/Zero series.

Personally Uprising is among my favorite action platformers (though not my favorite Contra). I can see that it might not be to everyone's tastes, but for me at least, the minor flaws throughout are far outclassed by the frequently enjoyable run and gun gameplay.

What run and gun gameplay? Start and stop gameplay, perhaps. Unless you airdash over all those poorly placed, cluttered obstacles littering the floor to bypass the crooked lumping together of threats and avoid being completely boinked by suffering a single hit and being reduced to a default weapon so flawed in my eyes it constitutes a genuine design error, then maybe you can refashion it into an enjoyable action experience? Maybe. But only a select few masochists will bother to try, it's just not worth the effort.

Any game you eventually play enough to make a meal of will reap an enjoyability factor - even Timecop - but does that virtue alone make it a great game, or just one you're great at playing.

Uprising is flawed. It's obvious potential and impressive effort sullied by stupid decisions. No 1cc will change that.

[Squire Grooktook]

What run and gun gameplay? Start and stop gameplay, perhaps.

"start and stop" is a nonsensical, meaningless accusation that people like to throw around for any run and gun shooter that they don't like (Metal Slug 3, Contra 4, etc. etc.). The original Hard Corps has start and stop. Contra 3 has start and stop. Metal Slug 1 and 2 have start and stop. Contra 1 has start and stop. Every run and gun shooter has start and stop. Unless you want a game where you can mindlessly hold right without ever stopping for the entire game, you're going to have some start and stop. And there is nothing wrong with that. A game where you never have to move left to avoid anything is not my idea of a good game.

I actually find myself pausing less in Uprising then most other titles, as there's a strong sense of momentum in stages.

Unless you airdash over all those poorly placed, cluttered obstacles littering the floor to bypass the crooked lumping together of threats

I actually found the stages and enemy placement to be very enjoyable. Had just the right amount of jumping, aiming, dodging, etc, and forced me to utilize my entire moveset with a fair amount of variety. Obstacles being cluttered (really only appears at the beginning of stage 2) isn't much of an issue when one well placed lvl 2 weapon (lvl1 will force you to pause briefly) will instantly go straight through them, destroying them all (and air dashing and double jumps, along with the terrain in said stages not being flat at all, takes care of the rest). I actually very much enjoy the level design, with perhaps the caveat that I wish the runner enemies were more like those in Contra 3 and Hardcorps (ie faster and more random).

I do agree about the garbage pea-shooter. But considering the Contra 3 style dual weapon carrying, and the frequent weapon pick ups throughout, I very rarely find myself falling back on it, even in failing runs. It's a design flaw, yes. But it's one that fails to eclipse the games high points for me.

And you can change the rules in Rising mode to make weapons power up faster (and I think the pea shooter stronger) so that Gradius Syndrome becomes less of an issue. I know "arcade settings" and all that, but as I said, if it makes for a better game...

Any game you eventually play enough to make a meal of will reap an enjoyability factor - even Timecop - but does that virtue alone make it a great game, or just one you're great at playing.

Not true at all. A game that is truly flawed will be just as un-enjoyable, if not more so, the more time you put into it. Not the reverse. Marvel Vs Capcom 3 was moderately enjoyable for me at first, but it was when my play time with the game exceeded 5 monthes, it became an incredible chore and I ultimately had to return to the far superior Marvel Vs Capcom 2 to wash the awful taste out of my mouth. That's a fighting game example, but I could probably think of quite a few single player arcade experiences.

I think Uprising is a great game. Not a masterpiece like Contra 1 and 3, but perhaps on the same level as the original Hardcorps: Some great ideas and design occasionally hampered by design flaws. Though in the original Hardcorp's case, with its infuriatingly boring safe spots and pointless filler battles, I might actually consider it to be the slightly more flawed game (as much as I still love the hell out of it).

[Skykid]

What run and gun gameplay? Start and stop gameplay, perhaps.

"start and stop" is a nonsensical, meaningless accusation that people like to throw around for any run and gun shooter that they don't like (Metal Slug 3, Contra 4, etc. etc.). The original Hard Corps has start and stop. Contra 3 has start and stop. Metal Slug 1 and 2 have start and stop. Contra 1 has start and stop. Every run and gun shooter has start and stop. Unless you want a game where you can mindlessly hold right without ever stopping for the entire game, you're going to have some start and stop. And there is nothing wrong with that. A game where you never have to move left to avoid something is not my idea of a good game.

Er. None of those games are start and stop. I've also never heard that accusation levelled at any of them (or anything) apart from the one I levelled at Uprising yonks ago. The game is busted from stage two when the ground is littered with flora and fauna you can barely see, armadas of goons come rushing in from off screen either side of you, and the stage arrangement is generally designed so you trip over yourself every half a second. I don't expect to hold right and a button to make it through a game, but I do expect there to be a general fluidity given over to me by weaponry, enemy placement and careful arrangement of obstacles. In the process of 1cc'ing Contra 3 and 4 and playing Slug, Shattered Soldier etc to death, I never encountered the kind of poorly constructed dumping of Uprising, made worse with an unusable default weapon and techniques - such as action vaulting - that cost two health blocks if you're interrupted during their motion. The game could have been great, but it's just badly thought out.

I actually found the stages and enemy placement to be very enjoyable.

I found it painfully unintuitive, and obviously so did Arc System, playtesting it, coming to the conclusion they'd fucked something up, and then throwing in more extra lives than a Mario game as a poor man's patch system.

It does not offer you a means to an end based on skill, only on grind. As I said before, anyone can pick up Contra 3 and on the very first attempt, based on their skill, can make good progress. That's a game that gives you the right balance of weaponry, throws you into the maelstrom, but gives you all the means to adapt on the fly. Uprising only expects you to laboriously carve some kind of path through its stages with utterly perfunctory weaponry and absurd penalising properties for taking even a single blow.

I do agree about the garbage pea-shooter. But considering the Contra 3 style two weapon selection, I very rarely find myself falling back on it, even in failing runs.

It's the straw that broke the game's back.

It's a design flaw, yes.

Glaring.

But it's one that fails to eclipse the games high points for me.

You're a tough cookie. Marred what could have been a perfectly superb outing for most others who don't possess the patience of a saint.

Not true at all. A game that is truly flawed will be just as un-enjoyable, if not more so, the more time you put into it. Not the reverse.

No, back at you. I've seen speedrunners break the most disgusting pieces of code, Timecop being the example, with a grin on their face and a twinkle of satisfaction in the eye. It's an achievement. Uprising is far from a total turd, but it falls into a similar category of hard fucking work.

I think Uprising is a great game. Not a masterpiece like Contra 1 and 3, but perhaps on the same level as the original Hardcorps

Same level as MD Hard Corps?

You mad son. Call a spade a spade. One is design expertise in motion, the other is expertise cockblocked by a director who thought giving one character lead boots and the other enough speed to accidentally crash into a litter of craply arranged obstacles, slogging it out on repeat with bosses that take ages to die and throwing you a bunch of utterly swag weaponry to combat offscreen threats, veiled dangers, and unexpected button slap events was a good idea. It wasn't.

As I said several posts before, there are plenty of better games in the action genre that really make Uprising not worth bothering with at all. Many of which you've cited in your post. I value my time. If I want a good game and a good challenge, I'll play Hagane or Makaimura or Shattered Soldier or Contra 3,4. Anything really.

[Squire Grooktook]

Er. None of those games are start and stop. I've also never heard that accusation levelled at any of them (or anything) apart from the one I levelled at Uprising yonks ago.

I've heard such complaints of those games on other forums. And they (along with the concept of start and stop itself) were complete nonsense.

The game is busted from stage two when the ground is littered with flora and fauna you can barely see, armadas of goons come rushing in from off screen either side of you, and the stage arrangement is generally designed so you trip over yourself every half a second. I don't expect to hold right and a button to make it through a game, but I do expect there to be a general fluidity given over to me by weaponry, enemy placement and careful arrangement of obstacles.

To each his own. Stage 2 was the moment I started loving the game. The cluttered (in a good way) opening forced me to pull off all sorts of wild acrobatic dodges as I pushed forward, finally breaking into a dashing push with weapons blazing that cleared a straight path through the hordes. IMO it's not only one of the most enjoyable parts of the stage, but one of my favorite moments in the franchise. I did find it fluid, varied, and engaging, and had a perfect balance of dodging, shooting, and pushing forward. Especially nice that there's two paths through it (on the ground or climbing through the trees) reminisient of Contra 1's non-flat multi-pathed stages.

The one or two flowers obscured by scenery is a gimmick lifted from arcade Super Contra, where it's much, much, much worse. While I do think it's a bit of a silly gimmick, I couldn't help but notice that they are placed just right so it is completely possible to see and react to them your first time if you're paying attention. It's nothing the second time around.

It does not offer you a means to an end based on skill, only on grind. As I said before, anyone can pick up Contra 3 and on the very first attempt, based on their skill, can make good progress. That's a game that gives you the right balance of weaponry, throws you into the maelstrom, but gives you all the means to adapt on the fly. Uprising only expects you to laboriously carve some kind of path through its stages with utterly perfunctory weaponry and absurd penalising properties for taking even a single blow.

I enjoyed it at both the learning and learned stages of the game. Learning it, there's quite a bit of fun, improvised chaotic dodging. When fully learned, you can simply blaze through as a glorious fire ball of destruction. And I've also found that the latter path is generally fairly well telegraphed that I can see that I am meant to play that way the first time through, but simply playing the stage more was needed for proper experience and mastery of the stage to pull it off (which is awesome).

the "absurd penalising" again is not as bad an issue outside of stage 3 and 4 bosses, considering dual weapons and the frequent pick ups during the stages. And again: Rising Mode lets you fix it even more.

No, back at you. I've seen speedrunners break the most disgusting pieces of code, Timecop being the example, with a grin on their face and a twinkle of satisfaction in the eye. It's an achievement. Uprising is far from a total turd, but it falls into a similar category of hard fucking work.

I was going to bring up the speedrunner example. But speedrunning is a special case: Even with awful games, there's true glory and fame to be won. Bad games often attract even greater attention from the speed run community, because the perfect games have been done to death and kusoge offer ample space for innovation and fame seeking. If there were no WR's to break or community to back it up, I imagine most of the kusoge would be dropped and never touched again in a heart beat.

I actually found Uprising to be enjoyable when I first picked it up as well as when I put more serious time into it. Either way, it does not fall into that category for me.

Same level as MD Hard Corps?

You mad son. Call a spade a spade. One is design expertise in motion,

This may be a matter of taste, but for me at least Hardcorps is in no way expertise in motion. Pacing, level design, and boss design are all flawed. Countless fights are safe spottable, or speed killable before they can do their most interesting attacks. The run and gun sections, as fun as they are, are completely gimped by every character but Ray and often suffer from flat level design (ie Alien Den with its AWESOME runner enemies held back by one flat path which results in no more zakos once its end is reached. Does not compare well to Contra 3's final stage which features similarly intense zako onslaught but has much more varied and tricky terrain to traverse while fending them off).

Probably the best example of what holds back MD Hardcorps is stage 4.5 if you take Missile or Alien Den route. Waiting an eternity for the stage 4 boss to climb the fuck up every wall while invulnerable, effortlessly speed killing all his most twitchy attacks before they can even fire, and then finally spending more time standing still and safe spotting during the painfully dull Dr. Mandrake fight. Most of the rest of the game isn't quite as bad, but there are numerous lesser examples of such brain dead design throughout (hey guess what, you don't even have to move during the opening of stage 3! just stand far right and fire forward) that hold the game back.

Still though, like Uprising, the parts where MD Hardcorps shine, really shine. MD Hardcorps is a fantastic game. But it's also flawed. It's still probably top 3 in the franchise for me though. The good parts are just that good.

other enough speed to accidentally crash into a litter of craply arranged obstacles, slogging it out on repeat with bosses that take ages to die and throwing you a bunch of utterly swag weaponry to combat offscreen threats, veiled dangers, and unexpected button slap events was a good idea. It wasn't.

Krystal speed feels just right for me.

Craply arranged = still disagree. I really like the enemy and platform placement.

As I mentioned, I rarely find myself falling back on the pea shooter for the only two bosses where this is a serious issue (stage 3 and 4). After the first attempt, I always had at least one at least decent weapon to use against them, and they were much better paced.

None of the bosses are repeated. Don't know what you're talking about there.

veiled dangers,

Basically one hazard in the first 30 seconds of stage 2.

[Skykid]

Okey dokey.

I've really said my bit on Uprising plenty enough. It will always slightly stink to me, and that be that.

[Squire Grooktook]

Okey dokey.

I've really said my bit on Uprising plenty enough. It will always slightly stink to me, and that be that.

I can totally respect that. Thank you for remaining cordial (so refreshing on an internet forum, ha ha)