John and the Emerald [VERSION 1.1 UPDATE]

[mehguy]

Anyways, so I made this game about a 1 year or 2 ago and played around with gamemaker. This was the result! It was really more for fun then actually releasing it to the public but here it is! It's not a shmup of any kind but more of a platformer and it's teh shite.

Don't worry it free. lol.

Platform: Windows PC

http://last-standing-software.itch.io/j ... he-emerald

---Version 1.1---
Fixes:

-More Backgrounds
-More Music
-Better Boss AI
-Window size stays the same
-Balanced Game Mechanics
-Bug Fixes

v1.1 release date: Dec 3 2014

Go ahead and download it above!

[Shmuppet]

Getting stuck in platforms? Auto-fire jumping? Notifications with small ass text? Oh this is most definitely GameMaker!

I was asking myself why many shmup developers use GM(it's horrible) to make games with, because it's absolutely horrible(did I mention it's fucking horrible?). But then I realized that Blitzmax isn't free, so I can't blame you guys.

Your game was cool though.

[Cagar]

What is so horrible about gamemaker, could you be perhaps more specific?
Because those things that you listed have literally nothing to do with gamemaker.

[Shmuppet]

What is so horrible about gamemaker, could you be perhaps more specific?

Well I suppose I could make a small list:
-Terrible low-level access. If something's wrong with your program and you wanna change it on the OS level, you can't or it was made REALLY difficult thanks to GM's extension scheme.
-It's slow(then again, GM wasn't originally built on C/C++).
-No GML support for casual functions - the backbone of just about every programming language.
-GML doesn't allow OOP. GM is built upon OOP, but the power of OOP isn't actually given to any of its users.
-GML type safety/flexibility is pretty abysmal.
-GML/DND syntax checking is awful.
-Horrible 2D camera settings, you're actually better off making a custom camera class yourself(and it only takes 8 lines of readable code).
-And the funny, but horrible DRM.

Now keep in mind that at least half of these problems WERE fixed with the new GM features included in higher packages, but that also brings up another con - it costs WAY too much to get features Blitzmax, Blitz3D(which is free), Monkey or even Unity(free) could give you for a much lower price. XNA GS/MSVC# is free too.

But people simply use what's more available to them I guess. I used GM Pro from 2005-2008 but quickly grew tired of its silliness and wanted a much better game-dev environment. Thank god for Blitzmax/3D!

[nasty_wolverine]

...blah blah blah...

as much as i realize and agree that all the other tools/languages you mentioned being more powerful and flexible than GM, you are wrong if you assume that GM is bad. need proof?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27050

go play FLYING V, and run back crying.

[trap15]

Just because someone has made a Statue of David out of poop doesn't mean poop is a good crafting material.

[Cagar]

Probably my 2nd favorite shmup of all time (that hasn't even been fully released) is made using gamemaker 8.0.
Gamemaker is perfect for simple 2D games (shmups?)
If you disagree, you don't understand anything about how important it is to be able to prototype stuff and effects at lightning fast speed.
I'm pretty sure that Shmuppet gave as stereotypical pr0 c0d3r answer as he possibly could on purpose.
Shmuppet, next time post in binary! I've heard that normal writing is not as effective.

[Lord Satori]

Just because someone has made a Statue of David out of poop doesn't mean poop is a good crafting material.

Oh god, I love this analogy.

[Shmuppet]

Just because someone has made a Statue of David out of poop doesn't mean poop is a good crafting material.

Basically.

One can make games in GM but you can also make games in Blitzmax, Blitz3D, Monkey, Unity, Construct/2, Multimedia Fusion, Allegro w/ C++, SDL w/ C++, I could go on.

Gamemaker is perfect for simple 2D games (shmups?)
If you disagree, you don't understand anything about how important it is to be able to prototype stuff and effects at lightning fast speed.

You can also prototype damn quick using Blitzmax. But unlike GM, you can even have your own custom window styles that fit ALL desktop resolutions to boot! Unlike many game-dev tools, Blitzmax actually makes lower-level stuff easy to understand and access. You can even mess with your own OS's internals(and catastrophically fuck up your PC's data) with just a couple lines of code in Blitzmax, compared to other languages like C which would require you to actually know how your OS works. I wouldn't recommend doing that though.

The point I was making was, GM is not good if you already know how to develop games. When I was using it, I didn't know how to make games at all. GM is perfectly fine for learning and getting a couple titles out there. Something it does well enough.

I ditched drag and drop in my first couple weeks and dived straight into GML, which was stupid because I didn't know how to program at the time, but later realized it was a wise choice. I figured all of GM out, and then got tired of how dumb GM was for simple game mechanics.

My first GM games were shmups too, made in GML! Arms of Avalon was so bad but it had a lot of interesting ideas like weapon combos(not available on the internet but I can dig it up and send it to anyone wanting a good laugh). But Saberella was just a better overall game. You can watch footage of that here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE4jJhORWGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1wA_8_mazQ

I'm pretty sure that Shmuppet gave as stereotypical pr0 c0d3r answer as he possibly could on purpose.
Shmuppet, next time post in binary! I've heard that normal writing is not as effective.

Aw yeah C0d3 60d5, write or die!

Going back to GM for serious development now, I'd bang my head against the wall. It has WAY too many design limitations and encourages bad game design/programming habits, which contributes to extra, unnecessary debugging. But let's say a good artist has no idea how to develop a game and doesn't want to learn too much to get off the ground. With that in mind, GM's perfect! But I suck at art and want ULTIMATE POWAAAA! over my game development, so GM would not suit me at ths point. I can still cook a mean piece of GML though, after almost a decade of not using it.

So my opinion DOES come from someone who's been developing games for multiple years in various languages. But I started from the bottom and had to work my way up too. Thanks for the compliment Cagar!

[Rozyrg]

But let's say a good artist has no idea how to develop a game and doesn't want to learn too much to get off the ground. With that in mind, GM's perfect!

I can get behind this statement. The whole poo statue business I'm not sure about, though.

If you stick with GM, you ought to know what you're sacrificing, absolutely. Still, as long as it's doing pretty much all you need it to, why fret? Also, if the end product is good, I think it's kind of ridiculous to still slag it off for being made in the wrong language or with the wrong dev suite or whatever.

To clarify on the statue analogy, I never feel like I'm "building with shit", e.g. struggling against obvious limitations or being held back. That's when you should definitely be moving on to greener pastures. I do know what that specific feeling is like from playing(?) 'creative' games like Blast Works, Dezaemon, Little Big Planet etc. Along those lines, I distinctly remember a cool little mech platformer someone made years ago using only the GM7 trial version. That's what you call waging war with the software just to get a good result out of it!

[Cagar]

post

Pretty good post, I'll have to take a look at blitzmax, thanks

[eebrozgi]

The point I was making was, GM is not good if you already know how to develop games. When I was using it, I didn't know how to make games at all. GM is perfectly fine for learning and getting a couple titles out there. Something it does well enough.

Reassuring to know you realize this. But at the same time, makes your original post in this thread look unnecessarily prickly.

For quite a long time I felt a kind of a lower identity for building my game with GM because of the similar coding superiority rubbed on my face by a select few sources. It got onto me because I did realize the advantages that the better tools had. Took some years to realize that wallowing in that makes no sense as long as you're constantly moving on with the project and improving in whatever other areas that aren't, say, low-level acces programming for example.

Sorry that I have nothing to say about the game that the topic is actually about yet, I'm writing from a Wii U.

[BPzeBanshee]

Unlike the folks who decided to stroke their own egos here and make themselves read like elitist assholes, I gave the game a test on the value of the description in the post. Not bad for "playing around", I remember seeing a lot worse in my Multimedia class when I was doing the same at the beginning.

Yes, there's definitely some "novice GM" hallmarks present, mostly in the form of the message system, MIDI use and windows changing to room size rather than remaining consistent as more professional games would. But to turn trap15's analogy around you can also make a turd out of even the best building material when it comes to game development, and every user that has posted in this thread or peers in this forum in general really should know this.

[Shmuppet]

Cagar, Blitzmax is great, and I hope you find great value within it. It's a little pricey(per forum rules I can't directly help you bypass the trial limitations), but I do believe it's still worth buying for the 3rd party support alone.

If you stick with GM, you ought to know what you're sacrificing, absolutely. Still, as long as it's doing pretty much all you need it to, why fret? Also, if the end product is good, I think it's kind of ridiculous to still slag it off for being made in the wrong language or with the wrong dev suite or whatever.

Few cases where I'd consider GM a wrong choice altogether. But if the user is scared of moving on when their skills are clearly too big for GM or that they need to grow OUT of GM to understand what they need to work on, it can be quite sad to watch them drag on and on. I play game-dev goto whenever my friends reach a roadblock that could've been solved with basic GML/game programming knowledge. They STILL use drag and drop in GM, even though they've had over 8 years of experience using it(way more than me)! They still haven't finished a project though, they seem "stuck".

To clarify on the statue analogy, I never feel like I'm "building with shit", e.g. struggling against obvious limitations or being held back. That's when you should definitely be moving on to greener pastures.

Which is exactly what I meant! I didn't mean that people who use GM should be ashamed and ridiculed forever. I suppose people concentrate on the fact that my feedback isn't overwhelmingly positive.

I do know what that specific feeling is like from playing(?) 'creative' games like Blast Works, Dezaemon, Little Big Planet etc. Along those lines, I distinctly remember a cool little mech platformer someone made years ago using only the GM7 trial version. That's what you call waging war with the software just to get a good result out of it!

GM's trial isn't half bad for letting people play around before they buy(and the $20 asking price for the full version back then was very reasonable). You didn't even have a time limit! I applaud Mark for actually being nice enough to let folks concentrate on making games, rather than begging their parents or balancing their checkbooks to buy the full version. But like many other tools in the 2000s, it seems like no one wanted to give up "precious" features like sprite transparency, scaling and rotation for free.

Reassuring to know you realize this. But at the same time, makes your original post in this thread look unnecessarily prickly.

I for one place no blame on the developer for their choice in tools. Based on the fact that the OP was just playing around, the game itself isn't half-bad! It certainly has potential to be an enjoyable romp, design issues aside. I've seen games that are a lot worse though(you can too, just look at the YoYo sandbox!)

But I'm experienced enough in Gamemaker to know EXACTLY what makes games deployed from it stand out like a sore thumb. And I appreciate users like BPzeBanshee helping others integrate good practices that make their GM games better in not only just gameplay, but the overall user experience. My opinion of GM games comes from the fact that I think both matter just the same.

For quite a long time I felt a kind of a lower identity for building my game with GM because of the similar coding superiority rubbed on my face by a select few sources.

I felt the same way when I was developing with GM. But you can take it as a compliment too! People see that your game development skills can be taken to the next level. And maybe they're right! But it's up to you to figure that out.

I'm concentrating on simpler, more refined gameplay now and I agree that it's not worth wasting time debating on which tool is *better*. But I will NOT go back to GM quietly!

[n0rtygames]

"A good workman never blames his tools"

Not everyone can code.. but then not everyone can draw. In the words of Softdrink: So.

[mehguy]

Unlike the folks who decided to stroke their own egos here and make themselves read like elitist assholes, I gave the game a test on the value of the description in the post. Not bad for "playing around", I remember seeing a lot worse in my Multimedia class when I was doing the same at the beginning.

Yes, there's definitely some "novice GM" hallmarks present, mostly in the form of the message system, MIDI use and windows changing to room size rather than remaining consistent as more professional games would. But to turn trap15's analogy around you can also make a turd out of even the best building material when it comes to game development, and every user that has posted in this thread or peers in this forum in general really should know this.

Lol yeah. It was made in a week.

[nasty_wolverine]

"A good workman never blames his tools"

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

[billzo]

Sonic the Hedgehog music, huh? Haha It's a cute little game XD

It's not great, mind you. Probably not even good. But hey, congrats on making it anyway. Do you still make games? If so, this will be a great way to see your progress since then.

Keep up the good work

[n0rtygames]

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

"Man who fall in toilet in deep shit"

??

[Lord Satori]

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

"Man who fall in toilet in deep shit"

??

what?

[mehguy]

Sonic the Hedgehog music, huh? Haha It's a cute little game XD

It's not great, mind you. Probably not even good. But hey, congrats on making it anyway. Do you still make games? If so, this will be a great way to see your progress since then.

Keep up the good work

Yeah lol, I agree, It isn't very good.

Yeah I still make games, I'm waiting until that shmup creator engine to be released.

[mehguy]

I'm currently working on a patch. Going to be released soon.

[tiaoferreira]

To me, don't there are BAD TOOLS. There are BAD DEVELOPERS.

[mehguy]

HELLO EVERYBODY.

I am here to announce the release of v1.1! The game file was pushed from 3mb to 20mb!

Fixes:

-More Backgrounds
-More Music
-Better Boss AI
-Window size stays the same
-Balanced Game Mechanics
-Bug Fixes

v1.1 release date: Dec 3 2014

Go ahead and download it!

[mehguy]

v1.1 is gonna be the final update so we can get started on our next project.