Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

With random encounter one random encounter definite random encounter caveat, I'm quite liking my first experience with Red Arremer: Makaimura Gaiden on GB. I've managed to play this trilogy completely ass-backwards; having preferred Red Arremer II's hardcore action/platforming over Blazon's less harrowing exploration, it's nice to see that same tight winding of level design around the hover+cling mechanics. Really enjoyed the sense of vertical scale in the few stages I've cleared so far. Same endearing goofy/spooky aesthetic as the FC sequel too, though in this regard I think the gorgeously twisted SFC game is the hands-down best.

Sprite breakup and slowdown gets a bit hairy at crowded points but it seems pretty tolerable so far. Random overworld encounters were a bad idea I'm glad RAII dropped like a scalding potato, though. They're at least profitable and brief, but god damn do they get repetitive quickly.

Also gave Batman GB a spin. BAT-MARIO PLZ. Although nothing too compelling, it's quite good platform/shooter fun if you treat it as Super Mario Land Gaiden: Imma Cock Mah Glock An Pop-Pop Til Dey Alll Drop. Adorable little micro-sprites that I recall being a bit annoying on an actual GB but suit SGB just fine. Quite unexpectedly the shmuppin stage is excellent with its fast pace and busy formations, though you should really only be able to fire in one direction at a time. Not unexpectedly at all the soundtrack is FN' ace.

[cicada88]

BIL quit beating around the bush and drop a GB/GBC top 20 list. Right here in this thread.

No surrender, no retreat.

[GSK]

I've been thinking about the GB/C topic a lot, actually. I want to believe there are a bunch of awesome action games hidden behind an unassuming license or two but I just don't have the time to sift through any of the ROMsets to find them.

[trap15]

You should watch Macaw's streams at http://twitch.tv/Macaw45 then. He's recently been going through a bunch of GB/C games and finding the corn in the crap Some really surprisingly good stuff in there too.

[GSK]

I just checked out his Twitter... I wonder if he played Blade GBC on account of my mentioning it here not too long ago. If not, I can tell you why it's so surprisingly good: the devs are ex-Technos. They also made an X-Men GBC game but that one's not as good for a bunch of reasons.

[BIL]

BIL quit beating around the bush and drop a GB/GBC top 20 list. Right here in this thread.

No surrender, no retreat.

Good soldiers know their limitations! Acclaimed frontiersman Macaw is indeed the one to follow. I know little of GB and less of GBC unfortunately, all I got back in the day were the most obvious first-party hits and a steady stream of kusoge.

I will say that I'd be delighted to find even two or three other GB action games as indispensable as Bionic Commando. As I said to CIT in the Awesome Stuff thread, though, if BC and the handful of others are all I end up with, that's cool. I regard them as addon titles for my SFC collection much like Mark III/MD and GBA/GC, really. Also they're so tiny!

[Sinful]

Playing badly (ignoring the charge + chain shot mechanic) results in this misguided impression

lol, Kurt Kalata. Yeah, I don't like that guys gaming coverage reviews on that site or anywhere else at all. Because I really don't know how such a casual gamer extremist happens also to be the main guy behind a site called "Hardcore Gamers." lol. (And for crying out loud why in the heck did he have to do the coverage for Gradius series & related + R-Type series + everything else that's good? Why couldn't someone who actually played the games have done it?)

Other then that he's also very biased toward Sega Genesis & Saturn.

But it doesn't end there. Check out the main guy behind Sega 16? If I ever read another review by him stating stuff like "thanks goodness for Game Genie or State Saves" in that's site reviews by him... It's like retro gamers nowadays are only in it for the collecting, chit chat and memories? Cause sites like this are the norm whenever retrogames are being discussed. I tried to tell the guy reviews like this should never be accepted, but failed miserably.

At least this forum seems to have plenty of true gamers... or "you elitist fucks" as the rest of the world views the STG genre... ah, le sigh. Don't know what else to say... oh yeah!


But back on topic, I too need to start playing this so called "Ninja Gaiden" game. And wow, some gamers here really seem to view this game in such high regard? Even Black Oak?!

[drauch]

But back on topic, I too need to start playing this so called "Ninja Gaiden" game. And wow, some gamers here really seem to view this game in such high regard? Even Black Oak?!

What are you up to now...

[Squire Grooktook]

Would I be mistaken in surmising that Ninja Gaiden is a game that emphasizes pure offense over evasion? Picking it up again recently, it strikes me as the kind of game where you don't really spend time dodging stuff (compared to say, Ghouls and Ghosts/Daimakaimura or Contra) and more a game where you get up close and kill everything before it can fire because it's simply the safest way to advance.

That and the deliciously smooth and fast move speed that feels just right.

[Obiwanshinobi]

For all randomness of my GB(C) purchases, I'm surprised there's not a single side-scrolling actioner among them. The Adventures of Star Saver doesn't really cut the biscuit, not with its capricious framerate anyway. Still one hell of an oddball of a game. The picture says... some of it.



Might as well bring up Hyper Lode Runner here, since I don't think my question in the GB/C games thread got answered. How good is the GB version and - in case the Wikipedia article hides something - wasn't there a FC/NES version by any chance?

[BIL]

Would I be mistaken in surmising that Ninja Gaiden is a game that emphasizes pure offense over evasion? Picking it up again recently, it strikes me as the kind of game where you don't really spend time dodging stuff (compared to say, Ghouls and Ghosts/Daimakaimura or Contra) and more a game where you get up close and kill everything before it can fire because it's simply the safest way to advance.

That and the deliciously smooth and fast move speed that feels just right.

Offense is definitely the best defense. The only enemies you sometimes want to hot-foot it with are arc projectile chuckers (four types, visually, but they're simply the same enemy with a different sprite). Their trajectories and rhythms are 100% RNG, so you'll want to keep an eye out for particularly nasty shots (even posthumous ones). I've killed the one near the ladder at the second floor of 5-2 with a windmill star, only for his flying hammer to clock me out of the air and straight into the nearby pit. These situations are the exception, though. Generally blowing them away from long range (or mowing right into them with Jumpslash) is the obvious choice. And you're often better off destroying an incoming projectile than dodging it.

(holy shit do I love when they try to fire back as the Jumpslash is descending on them. thwackthwackthwack!)

Recently had a minor "oh shiii" moment with the Pumpkinhead that spawns on a plateau between pits early in 5-1. Instantly hurled two long arcing shots right at me before I'd had a chance to land. Managed to neutral jump both and don't think they'd have quite put me in the pit, but it was still pretty startling! I love these enemy types. As blackoak and Marble have said they're a nice bit of RNG in an otherwise very stable game. With the breakneck speed it's enough to make things feel very unsafe indeed.

Oh, and you want to be quick and agile with Jaquio, though it's not so much random dodging as anticipating and leading his homing projectiles, then attacking him in the lull. Attacking head-on will get you swarmed and beaten down fast.

NG1's totally my gold standard sidescroller for basic movement and handling. Every 2D game should keep the player character anchored to the screen's dead-center like this. Annoys me like crazy when much later stuff (Aladdin MD, Story of Thor) fails to.

[GSK]

Might as well bring up Hyper Lode Runner here, since I don't think my question in the GB/C games thread got answered. How good is the GB version and - in case the Wikipedia article hides something - wasn't there a FC/NES version by any chance?

I don't believe there's a home version of Hyper Lode Runner specifically, no.

It's about as good a take as you might expect from a 1989 GB game. The levels themselves are fairly tough, too; handheld counterparts are usually fairly gentle compared to the home versions, but HLR puts up a good fight and is only slightly hindered by the smaller screen.

[BIL]

On the subject of Bionic Commando GB, got a chuckle out of this. Capcom Final Bosses A legacy of hands

Spoiler

I could swear there are more too. Stumbled across at the wonderful site of Game Kommander.

[BrianC]

I like Hyper Lode Runner better than the NES Lode Runner. The NES version has half the levels of the computer versions. The computer versions had more simple graphics, but the full level was shown on screen. The NES version uses levels from the computer version, but adds scrolling thanks to the larger sprites. The level editor also sucks on NES since it's a single screen and doesn't allow for the full screen size like the computer version. It also requires the Famicom tape recorder to save. Hyper Lode Runner has a much better editor that allows for the full stage size and multiple rooms, but lacks saving.

[BIL]

For all randomness of my GB(C) purchases, I'm surprised there's not a single side-scrolling actioner among them. The Adventures of Star Saver doesn't really cut the biscuit, not with its capricious framerate anyway. Still one hell of an oddball of a game. The picture says... some of it.

Haha, Star/Rubble Saver is adorable. Put a bit of time on it tonight. I like how it gets right into the action/platforming with zero preamble. Handles agreeably enough despite the struggling framerate, but the obvious allure is the odd chibi-hostile atmosphere and its super cute microsprites. Dog behaving badly <333

I actually don't mind the choppiness too much, given it at least chops consistently... the sense of playing a game that's being streamed to ol' brick GB from my grandpa's office circa 1976 has some charm. Charm's ultimately the only reason I could see myself returning (fired up Metal Storm to wash out the chop after), but that's not the worst commodity for a game to deal in.

[Ed Oscuro]

Blade GBC is let down by a completely useless upgrade system, too much running time, and not enough variety. As far as the moveset goes, well, I didn't really like it (or the situations you can use it in), but I'll have to defer to somebody with better skillz. It's not terribly deep though and I frankly don't think there's much to discover there.

[BIL]

Speaking of the movez - Perikles very kindly suggested Zenki: Battle Raiden (SFC) to me. I'd tried this at some point, and never gotten back to it. Must've been ages ago, as its sharing staff with Hagane is instantly apparent on both aesthetic and mechanical levels, despite it being an entirely different kind of sidescroller. If Mutant Apocalypse puts SFII characters in an action/platformer, this is more like smacking plebs about with Rugal or Goenitz.

The first couple areas are fun enough - Chibi Zenki doesn't have much of a moveset, but his jumpkick launches and connects with Hagane's distinctive kinetic bounce. It's when Big Zenki shows up that things get interesting. He's a large, imposing character with the flamboyantly destructive movelist and explosive speed bursts to recall an SNK Boss. You do revisit Chibi Zenki for some more mobile action, but the focus is mainly on striding around as the big man smoking chumps with Raijinkens and Burn Knuckles.





The awesome character aside, it seems like a very sound game from the four and a bit stages I played before I had to pull myself away. Environments are varied, pace is fast and the handling is just as airtight as Hagane's - executing moves is a breeze. And crucially, with the big sprites, the camera and stage design behave themselves. None of Dynamite Batman's awkwardness detected.

As Perikles stressed, it's definitely on the easier side, but a fundamentally sound and distinctly gratifying game nonetheless. Recommended to anyone who likes the Mutant Apocalypse fighting platformer concept.

[drauch]

Cool stuff, I'll give it a go. Seems like there's actually a handful of games in the series, all based on the manga, which looks violent ( ); the anime... eh, not so hot.

[andsuchisdeath]

BIL, what are your thoughts regarding the KID G.I. Joe games, if any?

Being someone who doesn't care for adventure/rpg gimmicks or even slightly non-linear design in action games, I've found both titles enjoyable.

[BIL]

I really like what I've played of them, and their broadly similar Kick Master. When I finally get around to NES collecting, those three are dead certs.

Just picked up a copy of Max Warrior, incidentally. KID were so awesome on NES/FC. Easily on par with Konami and Natsume for cross-genre shooting & sidescrolling excellence.

Finished Zenki: BR's first loop this evening. Great example of a flashier sidescroller. The frequent extends, easy survival difficulty and large moveset bring to mind Karuraoh and Super Shinobi II - exhibition play is their best quality, with mastery mostly about making your character look good. It's not the ideal, but when the material is as stylish and well-staged as these three's, I can happily lose myself in rehearsing a filmic run. I like its brawler ethic, too - where Karu and SSII are agile ninja action, this is all about demolishing anyone or anything stupid enough to get in your way.

Second loop is looking really good from the first couple stages - enemy presence is much fiercer, and environmental hazards less forgiving. Hagane's loop was its only weak point, being a quickie parameter tweak - it seems CA Production made a real effort to avoid the same pitfall here.

edit: ok, second loop rocks. It's still not all that tough but it tightens things up perfectly, with much trickier enemy arrangements. And crucially for a game so reliant on the appeal of its powerhouse character, parameters are left completely untouched. Dodged a bullet there. Ideally this would've been the first loop or a higher difficulty setting, but better late than never. I wonder if there's a cheat to skip to it.

edit 2: I swear I don't do the following deliberately:

1) play Japanese TB GEEMU "rofl I love it"
2) google out of curiosity
3) first result is Heavy Goods Vehicle 101 gold:

In the later stone forest, full of flying insects, don't worry about fighting everything, just run as fast as you can to the end before your health runs out.

So yes, fans of deft ninja sidescrolling ala Hagane and Super Shinobi will love mastering 4-1's finely calibrated battery of traps and pests. The second loop version is superb, easily Hagane-quality.

Hey Ed, this is apparently the same guy who insisted the CDI Zeldas are GREAT GAMEZ. But he allegedly crazy or something so I think he gets a pass here. He also says Battle Raiden's walk speed is "sluggish," a fatuity queefed from an atrophied casual backside if there ever was one! l2dash you hack fraud! And play Dracula Densetsu II, nubcaek! Fuckin noobs!

[drauch]

Haha, goddammit! Used to sort of think HG101 got more flack than they deserved, but there's so many outlandish and audacious claims at this point that it gets rather infuriating. Wish those goofballs would stick to just mentioning games and covering series, rather than how to (not) play them.

[Perikles]

I want to sign up for the Ninja Ryukenden Task Force (unfortunately just a 1CC, gotta get that 1LC at some point), please!

Hello everybody, I'm following this insightful thread for quite some time and thought to myself it'd be the right thing to return the favour. Naturally, I'm more than happy to see BIL declaiming the finer points of Zenki in his inimitable diction.

Considering we're on the topic of SFC games: there is another quirky game on the system named Melfand Stories which I was pleasantly surprised by. It's hard to pinpoint the exact genre since it works like an action platformer but has no real platforming in place. Despite the fact that you do have a very basic three hit combo I wouldn't call it a single plane brawler either because the similarities end here.

At first glance it seems a little bit dull for the reason that you're restricted to the aforementioned regular attack, one time use magic, a block command and a slide which I found to be pretty much entirely useless. Depending on the character you choose at the beginning (there are four in total) and the route you take through the game (divided into easy and hard paths - those work as the difficulty setting) it can get pretty tricky, however, especially due to the fact that you only have one life per credit. This is where the game gets an opportunity to shine: it boasts some uncomprosingly aggressive game play elements. I particularly love the harpies' nasty AI script, those buggers tend to fly all over the place and evade your attacks in a shockingly effective manner if you're not very precise. Boss fights can be overcome in a few seconds if you're sufficiently methodical in your approach. On the flip side, there is also a high probability to die equally as fast if you're not familiar with some of those creatures.

I wouldn't recommend this game unconditionally, though. It has an annoying habit of throwing some enemy constellations at you where it is almost impossible to not get hit unless you're willing to use your magic. In addition to that it also lacks the ever so important flow of the game since it forces you to stop and block quite often. Partly, it's great, partly, it's mediocre at best. I was anticipating a lackluster if visually charming walk in the park and was pleased with the outcome. Don't expect a great game like ActRaiser 2 or Hagane, heck, not even a solid one like the SFC GS Mikami, but if you like something unique and don't mind the oversights too much you might enjoy your stay in the scenic world of Melfand Stories.

[BIL]

Good to have you aboard. ^__^ And great first post - I remember Melfland from an SFC "name this game" request topic, but I don't think I've seen it discussed in much detail here otherwise.

[BIL]

WTF? Oddness be afoot in NR1 Act 5-1:



Seems totally random whether you can safely no-jump that gap or not. SO STLANGE. Always jump to be safe kids! I nailed the no-jump on the bus home then got owned later!

Besides the already documented arc projectile chucker RNG, Boxer RNG needs love too. PROTIP: don't get mad if you get socked! Use invincibility time to escape crossup! LOL, the nub rage I've seen.

Oh. What do chaps think of ROKKUMAN ZERO series on the GBA? They seem cool, wondering if it's worth snapping them up if you've already got X1-6. I'm a casual fan of the X series, pretty much, but I fn' love that walljumping hyper-hopping sword action. Do they play okay with the lessened viewable playfield?

[Ed Oscuro]

Speaking of the movez - Perikles very kindly suggested Zenki: Battle Raiden (SFC) to me. [...] smacking plebs about with Rugal or Goenitz.

hype hype hype omg

edit 2: I swear I don't do the following deliberately:

[Heavy Goods Vehicle 101 gold:]

This is seemingly a serviceable enough euphemism, though I'm not sure the Metal Slug riff is something they deserve. But you know, it's the experience that counts. It's not so different to accidentally baking with laxatives or running over your neighbor's cat...with the lawnmower...a push one...actually the weed-whacker...the manual kind. Ooops! My bad! I accidentally didn't get born with two hands and my eyes were transplanted from a mole, so ret's get buuusy! OUCH *hammered harry fairu jingle*

[drauch]

Ed has lost his mind.

[BIL]

A potent distillation of the Action Gaming 101 experience - even moreso than this:

[Squire Grooktook]

So for my game design class final at college, I made a 2d action platformer with a grappling hook in Unity (scripted by myself entirely from scratch, also features Rockman X style wall jumping). At the final where all the projects were showcased, mine was by far the most popular. I was expecting people to hate it because of how balls hard it was, but people became addicted and mine was revisited by the most people for the longest, and they frequently commented how much they enjoyed it. Nobody actually did beat it, but still.

A choice excerpt:

Student: Have you considered putting some sort of "fast fall" mechanic in for jumping?
Me: I already have! Try jumping and firing the grappling hook downward!
Student: OOOOOOOOOH

People seemed to also like my usage of rng, slightly randomizing enemy firing patterns. One of the enemies fires shots at you with random aim, there's a hallway filled with spiked balls that endlessly reflect off the floor and ceiling (choosing their next destination via rng, think Dead Eye Joe's reflect attack in stage 4 of Hardcorps), and the boss who's unpredictable left right movement and bouncing projectile attack are a serious reflex test. The teacher himself called the dodging in the game "pulse pounding" and students praised it for being "unpredictable" and heavily reactive.

Also had a part where you have to wall jump and platform vertically up a tower while a fire ball/lava rise chases you upward. People acted absolutely frantic playing it the first time, but they all loved the section and didn't find it frustrating at all despite game overing there several times.

I actually got into a discussion trading some C programming/scripting stuff with some other people there, and met a pretty decent amateur sprite artist. We talked and we're actually considering/toying with trying a classic CV styled stage demo/small project next over winter break.

[BIL]

So cool. I wish I had the discipline to look into coding, even at a casual level.

[Ruldra]

Oh. What do chaps think of ROKKUMAN ZERO series on the GBA? They seem cool, wondering if it's worth snapping them up if you've already got X1-6. I'm a casual fan of the X series, pretty much, but I fn' love that walljumping hyper-hopping sword action. Do they play okay with the lessened viewable playfield?

It's been years since I last played, but the Zero series are very good. They're pretty tough so expect a challenge. I remember the first boss of the first game (the one in the junkyard) gave me one hell of a time, mainly because I was still adjusting to the controls and the boss itself is merciless.

I think from Z2 and forward, if you keep your rank at A or S, the bosses will be even tougher than usual and use new attacks. You can use cyber-elves to give you some upgrades (like doubling your life bar), but these will put a permanent dent on your rank. So yeah, the game rewards skill.

I played through Z1-Z3 and after that I had enough. When Z4 came along I thought the series would go on forever and never played it. Turns out it's the last one and the best of the series (or so I heard).