Degica Shmups Thread

[Bonus!]

It would be perfectly fine if it was on an opt-in basis. There is surely a better way to handle it than it's done on the X360 games I've played. For instance, when the final score is displayed, pressing the button for 'break' could trigger an upload, which could then happen while the credits play, while any other button press simply advances the game to the credits.

[Blackbird]

Or the game could simply ask you if you'd like to upload any replays you make, since the "make a replay" dialog appears at the end of each run already. I think it's doable, it just depends on whether Yotsubane would like to spend time implementing it or not.

[Blackbird]

I'm going to be streaming some Crimzon Clover at 8PM EST (about 30 mins). I'll probably just be grinding practice stages on Novice improve my score. Come hang out if you want to!

Channel is here: http://www.twitch.tv/degigames

[Milspex]

still needs an xbla release imo, which will probably never happen

[Iaspis]

there's still that small "invisible ship" glitch in training level 1 when you restart it:

[Ikazu-san]

Another bug report:
Apparently by restarting Time Attack bunch of times one can unlock "Tank Mania" achievement.

[Blackbird]

Got a bunch of good news, everyone!

The best news first: The long awaited Crimzon Clover for GOG launch is confirmed for 12/4 next week! It feels like it took forever, but it's finally here! Thank you for your patience.

We are also having a Black Friday sale for Crimzon Clover. Until 12/2, it is 66% off on Steam.

On a more personal note, I'm hyped because I got a new personal best in Novice Original Type I, 1.5 trillion. Falls just short of the top ten, but it's no miss! This run will be uploaded to YT when I have an opportunity, as there aren't any no miss runs for Type I yet (as far as I know).

[MathU]

Good grief, it's about damn time. Almost seems like sabotage to be getting this up right after a Steam sale on it. I'll gladly pay full price for a copy without DRM!

Do you have any word if they'll be ditching the DRM on its Steam release once it's on GOG? There's no real reason to keep it around afterwards.

[Chacranajxy]

Awesome, thanks for the update. I guess I'll finally be buying the game in a week, then.

[Blackbird]

As far as I know, the Steam version will stay as-is (well, barring any future patches to fix things, anyway). I'll see what I can do about getting the GOG version on sale soonish so it doesn't feel like a price jack for the DRM free version.

Now that it's announced, I can tell you that I've had CC for GOG on my computer since October 2nd >_<. Either we were just a really low priority to get on GOG, or the approval process just takes a really long time over there. Sorry for the delay guys, there really wasn't anything I could do to speed it up more than this.

[BulletMagnet]

It's a gift that we're getting it DRM-free at all, it's worth the wait.

[HydrogLox]

I tend to agree ...

There's no real reason to keep it around afterwards.

Of course there is. You want Steam integration then you buy the Steam version; if you want DRM-free then you buy the GOG version - you want BOTH you pay for BOTH.
Listen, I'm no friend of DRM on digital distribution and prefer physical releases (primarily for console titles) but in this case I think a bit of perspective is warranted.

In 1990 the MSRP for Sierra On-line's version of Silpheed was $34.95 (and I'm pretty sure I paid a lot more than that as I wasn't in a position to cross-border shop at the time). In 2014 dollars that is equivalent to $63.49.

I purchased the Crimzon Clover CD-ROM from Rancor through http://www.sk8tokyo.com/shmup/ for $30 in mid-2012 (no copy-protection).
I purchased Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION Deluxe Edition on release for $5.59 this year (and would have paid $10.99 if it came to it).
Even if I also purchase the DRM-free GOG version I've still invested less in "Crimzon Clover" than I did in Slipheed (DOS) - but I've gotten considerably more mileage out of "Crimzon Clover"!
Purchasing newer versions is just "continued support" for a deserving product.

I guess I'll finally be buying the game in a week, then.

I don't like the reality of digital distribution and DRM either - but once you simply start to view all PC software expenses as "rental fees for an indeterminate duration" (as likely the version you purchased will fail to run on some "not-so-distant future" hardware/OS anyway) then for a "rental fee" of a mere $5.59-$10.99 (i.e. no more than 44 quarters) you could have been playing this since last June. And fortunately in this case the Steam release did not prevent them from eventually offering a DRM-free version of Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION for sale.

[MathU]

You want Steam integration then you buy the Steam version; if you want DRM-free then you buy the GOG version

Actually, you can do Steam integration without forcing the DRM aspect on people. The La-Mulana remake is one such example. It has all that achievement junk but users are free to play the game without Steam running if they want to.

[Squire Grooktook]

He meant that's what we have to choose here, not what the developer had to choose between.

[Mischief Maker]

(as likely the version you purchased will fail to run on some "not-so-distant future" hardware/OS anyway)

Dosbox would disagree.

That said, I'm looking at this long run. Sure right now you pay full price and it's yours as long as the steam servers are running, but that's just what distributors are forced to do because people still remember buying boxed software from a brick and mortar store and that's the end of the transaction. Once everyone resigns themselves to DRM as being "not that bad" you think they're gonna stop there? You think monthly subscriptions will never become the norm?

Chris Rock joked about how there's no money in curing disease, the money is in continuous treatment. Where's the money in selling a software title that the user takes full ownership of? DRM isn't about piracy anymore.

That said, hooray for DRM-Free Crimzon Clover! I'll play it over and over...

[-S.L-]

You are arguing for something that is the price of your Big Mac meal... At least this will last a lot longer

[Blackbird]

I'm skeptical that DRM "isn't about piracy". A lot of PC devs are very afraid of pirates. If a certain news source is to be believed, a notable dev at Ubisoft thinks that the PC market is "90% pirates anyway". Personally, I am of the opinion that pirates were never your customers anyway. Even if you had a magical, ironclad DRM that prevented 100% of piracy (impossible), you still aren't going to convert those pirates into customers - they just won't play your game now, because they would have never bothered to play your game in the first place if it cost them money. Your game just isn't worth playing to them unless it's free.

In an ideal world, all games would be DRM free and any additional income that needs to be made up would come from the sale of additional content. While I don't think that DRM will be going away (for too many people, it's not important enough for them to vote with their wallets) you can believe that I will strongly advocate for a DRM-free version of every game that passes through Degica, at the very least.

[-S.L-]

I would be happy to give my share to phenomenal producer like Yotsubane for him to make another brilliant game. I wouldn't care less to give 100€, and I'm sure real players with passion wouldn't mind either to give a little bit to help. When you really like something, you just do everything you can to help.

Me think.

[HydrogLox]

I'm not looking to derail this topic - so here is the executive summary as it pertains to Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION:

• This may be an example where the sales of the Steam version encouraged the publisher to release an alternate DRM-free version. I don't think that lack of sales is going to convince anybody to offer an alternate DRM-free version. So the effectiveness of "boycotting" Steam releases is at best dubious regardless of how you feel about DRM.
• Even if you already purchased the Steam version, buy the GOG version if you care about DRM-free software. This sends the message that software being DRM-free is important, possibly even at a premium. In the end the combined purchase price is still reasonable if you enjoy playing Crimzon Clover.

Actually, you can do Steam integration without forcing the DRM aspect on people.

I'm aware of that. But apparently they had their reasons for not doing it; be it because it was simply easier not to have to support two different operating modes, or maybe they felt the need for some (perceived) commercial piracy protection for the first 5 months of sales (which could be the time period where piracy is commercially most damaging for something this inexpensive). In any case it's an interesting choice to make a DRM-free version available at a later point - try it out (for cheap) on Steam, and buy the DRM-free version later if you really like it.

I personally would prefer a Steam release that runs without Steam - but such a product may be more complicated and more expensive to support which would tend increase the purchase price - but Steam is a marketplace where you primarily make sales by having an inexpensive product; this results in a low purchase threshold (good when there is some positive buzz in the Steam community as people will simply buy it) and also leads to minimal "buyer's remorse" when the product doesn't "click" with a customer. So there is an incentive to have a Steam-centered build with minimal fuss.

Raiden III PC had a simultaneous release on GOG and Steam. So I simply bought the GOG version as I don't care about the Steam integration. Though I don't know if the simultaneous release may have lead to some "lost sales" due to people "sharing" the GOG release. A staggered Steam then GOG release may have made them more money (to publish more games in the future).

Some publishers like Playism will give you a Steam key if you buy from them directly; I suspect that they have to pay Steam the "usual commission" anytime they do that - in that case that cost would simply be folded into the overall purchase price making the product more expensive.

Dosbox would disagree.

With DOSBox (and MAME) you are relying on the generosity of others to freely share their time and efforts with everybody else - and that should never be taken for granted. Some people might be willing to pay for these kind of utilities but I'm skeptical that there is enough of a paying customer base to make commercial products out of them (though some people seem to use VMware instead of DOSBox). And DOSBox itself needs to be constantly updated if not for additional capabilities but just to keep operating on constantly evolving PC environments. I think there is something to be said for simply paying the/a developer to update the game to operate in updated enviroments by buying the updated game all over again. Emulated environments are a great last resort when there is no other option but rarely can match the experience with (a) original/optimal hardware or (b) a version updated to run in a contemporary environment. I think the "I already bought this game, I'm not going to pay for it again" mentality gets in the way sometimes to preserve these games in the marketplace. Ultimately you cannot buy gaming software the same way you buy a board game - you pay for a licence that is limited to a certain operating environment (which may or may not require access to a service operating outside of your control).

It always comes down to: "You want to play this game now - how much (money, effort, time, hassle) is it worth to you?"

[-S.L-]

is there a chance to have the original Nesica attract mode one day ?

I mean seriously, it look like I have a CCWI wall paper now !

[vector7]

It's out on gog http://www.gog.com/game/crimzon_clover_world_ignition currently -50%

[Mischief Maker]

YOINK!

Now what am I gonna do with my import copy?

[rtw]

It's out on gog http://www.gog.com/game/crimzon_clover_world_ignition currently -50%

Bought... for the third time

[rtw]

A bit low in the goodies department, no artwork, manual, wallpapers, sketches, artwork or music...

[Observer]

YOINK!

Now what am I gonna do with my import copy?

Put it in a frame to admire it every day? I do that with mine

Hey, Blackbird, if you can pass a message to Yotsubane, if he can put out another 1-2 Caravan stage/s for CC I would gladly buy that as an expansion/DLC for the game!

The Time Attack stage is one of the most adrenaline-inducing things I've played in ages so I wouldn't mind a couple more "challenge stages" like that. Breaks a bit from the usual stage progression (and I think it would be a nice addition to future shmups once you conquer the main modes or as a diversion from them).

[rtw]

The GOG pages state: Modes: Single-player Is this a typo ?

[Chacranajxy]

It's finally out on GOG!


Bought it immediately.

[Iaspis]

Bought it too, for the third time. One quick question, isn't there a type Z ship in this version? I can't see the unlocking progress anywere (IIRC, there was a bar or something in the Steam version).

[rtw]

Bought it too, for the third time. One quick question, isn't there a type Z ship in this version? I can't see the unlocking progress anywere (IIRC, there was a bar or something in the Steam version).

IIRC the bar does not appear until you have a certain number of stars...

[Mischief Maker]

I miss the tank exploding minigame in the high score screen...