Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[mickcris]

I picked up a BVM-20E1U recently. The picture is nice except for the bottom of the screen has a "wave" in it. Does anyone know what is going on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kndysyi43yw

[nyder]

I picked up a BVM-20E1U recently. The picture is nice except for the bottom of the screen has a "wave" in it. Does anyone know what is going on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kndysyi43yw

Does it happen on all input types rgb,composite,component etc?

[cicada88]

My BNC to SCART adaptor came yesterday, and my Playstation & Mega Drive RGB cables are out for delivery. Can't wait to finally test RGB on the PVM 14L5 & 20L5

[nyder]

My BNC to SCART adaptor came yesterday, and my Playstation & Mega Drive RGB cables are out for delivery. Can't wait to finally test RGB on the PVM 14L5 & 20L5

Get some regular BNC cables, then you can daisychain the 2 together, keep the 14l5 tated hehe.

Nyd

[mickcris]

I picked up a BVM-20E1U recently. The picture is nice except for the bottom of the screen has a "wave" in it. Does anyone know what is going on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kndysyi43yw

Does it happen on all input types rgb,composite,component etc?

yes, you can see it also when nothing is connected and just the menu pulled up.

I just notice too after looking more closely that its rolling down on the left side too, but it doesn't seem to affect the picture too much until it gets near the bottom. You can sort of see it in the video I took. I make a better one if it would help.

[nyder]

I picked up a BVM-20E1U recently. The picture is nice except for the bottom of the screen has a "wave" in it. Does anyone know what is going on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kndysyi43yw

Does it happen on all input types rgb,composite,component etc?

yes, you can see it also when nothing is connected and just the menu pulled up.

I just notice too after looking more closely that its rolling down on the left side too, but it doesn't seem to affect the picture too much until it gets near the bottom. You can sort of see it in the video I took. I make a better one if it would help.

I had a similar issue with my PVM-20l5 but only via RGB, not component,composite etc. When I obtained a optional input card and hooked up the RGB via that no more waves/wiggling. I dunno if that is an option. But you gotta do whatever you can to rescue that display.

Maybe one of the inputs isn't self terminating, get some 75ohm bnc terminators and attach them to non-used bnc connectors see if that helps.

nyd

[Ed Oscuro]

You got lucky, no way they are standard.

They are standard equipment on the 20L2; I checked the official Sony product sheet. The 20L5 might be a different matter since there's a wide number of configurations...mine came with a 120D, which is kind of useless for our purposes.

So maybe you got unlucky
[

I know I am unlucky, the product sheet indicates the cards are optional/options not standard.

◗ Signal Interface Options
With an optional adaptor inserted into the
option slot on the rear panel, PVM-L2
Series monitors can accept direct input
from a wide variety of signal formats.

But ya, lots of people have picked up PVM/BVM's with the option slots filled with some sorta optional adapter. If you are using for what we use these displays for and your lucky its a BKM-129x.

Nyd

It turns out that somehow we are both right. Alternatively, I'm not wrong in what I said.

The normal PVM-20L2 spec sheets (US, metric don't mention standard accessories. They do show an optional input board being slid into the back of one of the larger units - though it looks like a dual-width card, not the BKM-129X.

However the brochure for the PVM-20L2MD is a different story:

Supplied Accessories: [...] BKM129X Component Video input card
Optional Accessories: IzzitOn System Cable, BKM120D (SDI) video card,
BKM155DV (IEEE-1394 Digital Video) video card

I wonder if the lack of an optional input accessory board on the normal PVM-20L2 translated to a smaller price. It might be hard to compare the units directly even given the prices, given the cost of the UL 2601-01 certification, and the differences in supplier pricing.

Overall, it looks like another reason to prefer searching out ex-medical (or medical research) displays instead of the standard model. From what I saw, this difference (holding the BKM-129X) probably is true also of the units the 20L2MD replaced, like the PVM-1943md and similar.

I ought to try the different outputs / try swapping the input board on my 20L5 to see if that gets rid of the top-of-screen distortion I'm seeing there. Kind of doubt it but it's worth a try.

[mickcris]

I had a similar issue with my PVM-20l5 but only via RGB, not component,composite etc. When I obtained a optional input card and hooked up the RGB via that no more waves/wiggling. I dunno if that is an option. But you gotta do whatever you can to rescue that display.

Maybe one of the inputs isn't self terminating, get some 75ohm bnc terminators and attach them to non-used bnc connectors see if that helps.

nyd

thanks. i will give that a try.

[nyder]

I think you figured it out, as this posting on a local craigslist for a 14l2md shows a bkm129x in the back.

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rch/ele/4738689660.html

And it makes sense a medical display would want additional inputs for multiple pieces of equipment etc. I think it looks cool white but might not age so well but getting the bkm129x already installed is a huge bonus. That's a good bit of info, thanks for sussing it out.

Nyd

[mickcris]

I tried the inputs on the other board in the monitor (BKM-20D) and it got the same result of the wavy screen. I pulled that board, the video process board, the neck board, and the deflection board to check them out. I could not see anything visibly wrong with the 1st 3, but the deflection board looks like it may have a bad film capacitor as its very discolored.

close up:


there is one listed on ebay that has a pic and that cap does not look discolored like mine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-Deflection ... 1274975477

So im thinking of replacing it to see if it helps. Its a .22uf cap. Not sure what type of material it is or if i can just replace it with any film cap and it would be ok. Here is pretty much the exact one on ebay, but i would prefer to get it from somewhere in the USA so I dont have to wait forever and it would most likely be cheaper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271644117609

If anyone knows what type of cap that is so I can find it in a search, I would appreciate it. My search of mouser came up empty. Not 100% sure that is actually the problem or not, but it cant hurt to replace it.

[nyder]

Desolder it and take it to a electronics store, they can probably match it up with something to replace it with.

It's worth a shot.

Nyd

[Ed Oscuro]

Thank you so much 16shot!

I thought i bricked the monitor now it works again perfectly. Shouldn't play around when i don't know what i'm doing i guess...

Say that again!

You should get a copy of the service manual online and read through that for curiosity's sake.

LOL, Guess who stepped in it this time!

Was fooling about with my 20L2 monitor and "accidentally" selected aging mode. No consumer fumble-fingers "are you sure" prompts in these machines.

Fortunately, you can turn it off immediately if you don't know what to do. Interestingly enough, one of my inputs' "aging mode" is much darker than the others.

The other thing I found out is that my PVM 20L2 (at least one of them) is version 2.2 (I assume that's software version, for supporting input cards and maybe some fixes to the menus).

[mickcris]

Desolder it and take it to a electronics store, they can probably match it up with something to replace it with.

It's worth a shot.

Nyd

The bottom looked worse when I got it out, but unfortunately it wasn't the problem. I replaced it with a green mylar cap and its still doing the same thing. It seems like maybe its not as bad as it was, but its still there.

[nyder]

Not all caps look bad when they go bad, but since removing that obvious bad cap improved things, it might pay off to do more caps and see if that improves it.

How are you removing the caps?

If you intend to go down the route of recapping (Which I recommend) I would obtain a desoldering iron to speed up the process.

Nyd

[mickcris]

Not all caps look bad when they go bad, but since removing that obvious bad cap improved things, it might pay off to do more caps and see if that improves it.

How are you removing the caps?

If you intend to go down the route of recapping (Which I recommend) I would obtain a desoldering iron to speed up the process.

Nyd

i have a desoldering iron. it was possibly just my imagination that it looked better after the replacement. Not sure I want to do that yet as i'm not sure it is the deflection board. Would be nice if I had another one to swap parts around.

edit:
I think that cap may have just been discolored cause it was so close to the heat sink. Probably was not bad.

[stonedrum]

i have absolutely no clue how to calibrate my l5. the calibration stuff is set to factory mode. Could someone lead me in the right direction for the knowledge I need to calibrate for the best picture? Thanks

[nyder]

Do you really think you need to?

I figure if all you do is play games on it factory settings are good enough, its not like were actually using these things for their intended purposes which was colour correction video editing etc lol

Nyd

[cicada88]

Do you really think you need to?

I figure if all you do is play games on it factory settings are good enough, its not like were actually using these things for their intended purposes which was colour correction video editing etc lol

Nyd

bu..but but...we are editing 2D video games with our controllers

[Artemio]

Do you really think you need to?

I figure if all you do is play games on it factory settings are good enough, its not like were actually using these things for their intended purposes which was colour correction video editing etc lol

Nyd

As the author of the 240p suite I might be biased, but... if you care about using such a monitor, you sure care to get the most out of it =)

[nyder]

Do you really think you need to?

I figure if all you do is play games on it factory settings are good enough, its not like were actually using these things for their intended purposes which was colour correction video editing etc lol

Nyd

As the author of the 240p suite I might be biased, but... if you care about using such a monitor, you sure care to get the most out of it =)

Hehe well I LOVE your program and use it a lot. but I'm lazy when it comes to calibrating.

The crosshatch pattern is great for adjusting focus.
Thanks for making such a essential tool!

Nyd

[mickcris]

I was looking at the manual for the bvm-20e1u. It shows more menu items under adjustments than my monitor shows and also another setup menu item called "extended menu". Does anyone know if there is something special you have to do to get these to show up? I put the password in and entered that menu, but there didn't seem to be anything to unlock there.

Maybe my software version is too old (ver 1.02)? If so, is there a way to update?

edit:
never mind, found release notes for 1.4. Have to buy a card with it on it from sony. Those menu items are probably not in my old version.

[Ed Oscuro]

Is there some particular menu item under the adjustments that you actually need? It seems like you shouldn't have to care about this, all the major functions already being easily accessible.

[BazookaBen]

Does anybody have any idea of what I could modify on my 20L2 (service menu or otherwise) to change how it processes sync? My 20M2 works much better with Extron RGB and its "fake 240p". I think it's because the L2 keeps trying to "correct" the sync signal, so half of my lines are very blurry/flickering.

[mickcris]

Is there some particular menu item under the adjustments that you actually need? It seems like you shouldn't have to care about this, all the major functions already being easily accessible.

Not sure, but now I just don't think those are available on my firmware version. I'm still trying to figure out the issue I am having. I wanted to set it back to factory default but that menu item wasn't showing.

[Shining]

So i skipped bidding on a PVM-20L4 because the price went too high. Now i have the opportunity to pick up a brand new JVC TM-1750PN for about 135€ ($170). Do you think that is a good choice?
Only 550 lines of resolution though. It should be able to display 240p, 480i, 288p and 576i, right?

Spec sheet: https://cvp.com/pdf/jvc_tm1750pn.pdf

[nyder]

So i skipped bidding on a PVM-20L4 because the price went too high. Now i have the opportunity to pick up a brand new JVC TM-1750PN for about 135€ ($170). Do you think that is a good choice?
Only 550 lines of resolution though. It should be able to display 240p, 480i, 288p and 576i, right?

Spec sheet: https://cvp.com/pdf/jvc_tm1750pn.pdf

I like those JVC RGB monitors but I'd hold out for a 20 that does at least 800 tvl. though, if you were tp pick up a JVC like this one cheap I'd grab it till I found something better.

Nyd

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

So i skipped bidding on a PVM-20L4 because the price went too high. Now i have the opportunity to pick up a brand new JVC TM-1750PN for about 135€ ($170). Do you think that is a good choice?
Only 550 lines of resolution though. It should be able to display 240p, 480i, 288p and 576i, right?

Spec sheet: https://cvp.com/pdf/jvc_tm1750pn.pdf

I'd go for it just for the brand new smell. My experience with JVC monitors has been positive.

[Ed Oscuro]

Finding an old thread on DVinfo from 2004 I see somebody asking about a used TM-1750PN. I haven't been able to pin down year of manufacture, but apparently they weren't new even then. $170 might not be a lot for a "NIB" monitor, according to the market, but that's still a lot to pay for a somewhat old unit. You may well want to look into reconditioning the caps on it, at least.

In comparison, I'd be more excited (but still not very) about one of those JVC HD DT-V1710CG units that popped up on eBay (of course you'd also have to get the SD input board for SD RGB + component). Those are somewhat newer - probably at least half a decade, and probably a full decade newer or more.

It is a bit small and the TVL spec isn't so high (550 lines), though it will be more than enough for retro consoles.

[stonedrum]

I have a Japanese dreamcast and a pvm 14L5. I recently got the pelican euro scart cable as well as a scart to bnc cable. I plugged everything in and the picture is very pink. It seems the green channel isn't syncing properly, because unplugging the green has little change to the picture. Even worse, it caused my pvm screen to cut off completely while still on whilst making a clicking sound inside the unit. Unplugging everything and waiting helped get the screen to come back on, but now I'm afraid to even try to connect my dreamcast through scart on my pvm. Anyone else have experience of scart or something bricking their unit completely? Also, does anyone have any suggestions as to what's wrong?

[nyder]

I have a Japanese dreamcast and a pvm 14L5. I recently got the pelican euro scart cable as well as a scart to bnc cable. I plugged everything in and the picture is very pink. It seems the green channel isn't syncing properly, because unplugging the green has little change to the picture. Even worse, it caused my pvm screen to cut off completely while still on whilst making a clicking sound inside the unit. Unplugging everything and waiting helped get the screen to come back on, but now I'm afraid to even try to connect my dreamcast through scart on my pvm. Anyone else have experience of scart or something bricking their unit completely? Also, does anyone have any suggestions as to what's wrong?

You sure you have the input set to RGB rather than component?