Let Xplosiv know you want shmups!!

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:48 pm

twe wrote:
Zweihander wrote: Sound glitches, and some game-hampering glitches not found in the NAOMI version. (see ikaruga.co.uk for these videos)
Yes I know. I have owned both the GC and DC versions of Ika and have played them both extensively (200+ hours with each version). I was simply quoting what TREASURE said about the port.

Yeah, s'alright. I've been losing much respect for Treasure lately, and their bullshit claim of the GC port being good, at all, bothers me almost as much as their involvement in the Bleach DS fighting game. :/

Guess we're pretty screwed, unless by some miracle Sony decides "aw heck, let's bring all these great 2D games over!" ...it's never. fuckin'. happenin'.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:35 am

Zweihander wrote:I've been losing much respect for Treasure lately, and their bullshit claim of the GC port being good, at all, bothers me almost as much as their involvement in the Bleach DS fighting game. :/

On balance, the Japanese GCN release of Ikaruga is fine.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:53 am

Zweihander wrote:Sound glitches, and some game-hampering glitches not found in the NAOMI version. (see ikaruga.co.uk for these videos)

Could you be more specific? I have the GCN version of Ikaruga, & though I've never played the arcade or DC versions, I've noticed nothing I would classify as "glitch" in any way.

russ · Post by **russ** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:54 am

Gameplay is irrelevant

Words of wisdom from our good friends at Sony.

crithit5000 · Post by **crithit5000** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:12 am

FRO wrote:
Could you be more specific? I have the GCN version of Ikaruga, & though I've never played the arcade or DC versions, I've noticed nothing I would classify as "glitch" in any way.

The largest glitch is in the PAL version, during Chapter 1's boss fight. At one point during the fight, the homing missiles target nothing and shoot offscreen.

The other well known 'glitch' is probably just either bad programming or the GameCube just having shitty audio, as voices get drowned out/cancelled and all around sounding like shit. Chapter 1's music is also not timed properly to the action on the screen.

There's also some other random glitches going on, but they're a bit more rare. I suggest reading this and watching these (well...if ikaruga.co.uk actually has some bandwidth to spare at the moment...) for more info.

takohiko · Post by **takohiko** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:17 am

I doubt Empire will release Raiden III in the US, really - they do have some kind of North American operation (although Sega published Taito Legends) but they've never released a game in the US without first releasing it in Europe, and 505 GameStreet already have the European rights for Raiden.

As for Ibara and Mushi... there must be some reason 505 hasn't already picked them up, probably licensing issues with Cave (i'd guess Cave don't want their games sold as cheap budget titles overseas, and it just isn't commercially viable for western companies to publish a shmup at full price, if SCEE/SCEA would even let them).

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 am

Sony's 2D policy is in regards to full price SCEA games in 2D. The policy was in full effect when "intellivision lives" came out for $19.99 but it was 20 games with atari graphics.

The policy is in effect for a number of reasons.

When Castlevania SOTN came out in Europe (PS1) it sold about 10,000 copies and was slated by most consumers who thought it was 3D. It also got a limited edition boxset bigger and greater than the rather nice JP version.

Most review sites will mark a game down in score if its 2D no matter how innovative it is. This gives the impression its a rip off and crap to 99% of the market. Especially if it was $50.00 MSRP.

Now when you take all this into the equation, the publisher has the option to sell a game at budget MSRP, but license fee's from the devcos will be so high it scares the publishers away.

As far as Cave is concerned, it would be unfair on the Japanese to pay $60+ per title and then have the USA release come out at $20-$30 for the exact same thing about 2 weeks later

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:55 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:Sony's 2D policy is in regards to full price SCEA games in 2D. The policy was in full effect when "intellivision lives" came out for $19.99 but it was 20 games with atari graphics.

The policy is in effect for a number of reasons.

When Castlevania SOTN came out in Europe (PS1) it sold about 10,000 copies and was slated by most consumers who thought it was 3D. It also got a limited edition boxset bigger and greater than the rather nice JP version.

Most review sites will mark a game down in score if its 2D no matter how innovative it is. This gives the impression its a rip off and crap to 99% of the market. Especially if it was $50.00 MSRP.

And this hurts SCEA how? If publishers want to potentially fail, let me fail, in fact, it happens all the time with 3D games. And when a game like Slug 3 is denied by SCEA but is released on the more powerful Xbox, the only thing truth is that SCEA's policies are a joke and they are morons. Lastly, something happening with SCEE (SotN) has absolutely no bearing what SCEA chooses to do.

I understand the real reason SCEA is so anti-2D, but it's so ridiculous I won't even dignify it or give it validity by expounding on it.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:09 am

The case of SOTN in Europe was just an example of why SCEA would not want to release 2D in the USA. They believe it will not be well received in the West by mainstreamers or reviewers alike.

Sony SCEA's policy is based on perception of acceptance and they believe at $40+ the games will be tagged as crap before they are even released.

Shadow of the collossus took 3 years to make, its not really selling that well and its really pushing the PS2 to its limits technically, yet its $40 MSRP.

If Taito or Konami tried to sell a shmup here for $50+ like Japan, it would seriously screw up the perception that 3D is better, which Sony has been promoting all along. I just know alot of consumers would be pissed too, the all too common phrase "buying a game for $50 that has megadrive graphics" would become commonplace.

And yeah, I know people are dumb asses in this industry... I am not defending their argument at all. In fact there must be a trading standard in USA which prohibits this practice.

Finally I would add that 2D adds life expectancy to a machine/system. Since when the nextgen console arrives the nextgen 3D goes beyond the current gen, but the 2D market can happily sit on the older hardware and in some cases (DC, PS1, PS2) make very healthy efforts long into the future. Take Neo geo for example.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:33 am

I think someone should remind them that Raiden I and II DID make it to the U.S. on other systems (i.e. Nintendo/Arcade), so Raiden III SHOULD be ported.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:37 am

takohiko wrote:505 GameStreet already have the European rights for Raiden. As for Ibara and Mushi... there must be some reason 505 hasn't already picked them up

I got the impression that Cave set their international licensing/distribution fee exorbitantly high, which means EU distributors can never profitably pick them up.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:52 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:The case of SOTN in Europe was just an example of why SCEA would not want to release 2D in the USA. They believe it will not be well received in the West by mainstreamers or reviewers alike.

Assuming this were true, then they would have axed all 2D games, and they clearly haven't.

Sony SCEA's policy is based on perception of acceptance and they believe at $40+ the games will be tagged as crap before they are even released.

Would some consumers feel like the price is too high, certainly, but that doesn't hurt Sony in anyway. It's not like there is some law that says only x many games can be released. If everything was about solely catering to the "mainstream" then a lot of 3D games wouldn't be released here either.

Shadow of the collossus took 3 years to make, its not really selling that well and its really pushing the PS2 to its limits technically, yet its $40 MSRP.

All SCEA published games retail for $40.

If Taito or Konami tried to sell a shmup here for $50+ like Japan, it would seriously screw up the perception that 3D is better, which Sony has been promoting all along. I just know alot of consumers would be pissed too, the all too common phrase "buying a game for $50 that has megadrive graphics" would become commonplace.

How does a game existing on the market hurt people? Are they being forced to buy it? I don't get it. It's no secret 3D games as a whole sell better, so since they are in the business to make money SCEA will be more open to games with 3D graphics. If they were really smart however, they would be inclusive to more 2D games which would only create more profit and wouldn't hinder the 3D market in anyway.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:03 am

Blade wrote:I think someone should remind them that Raiden I and II DID make it to the U.S. on other systems (i.e. Nintendo/Arcade), so Raiden III SHOULD be ported.

You know in the US, SCEA DID published The Raiden Project.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:04 am

SOTN was one of the last Sony games in 2D to be given full price in the USA. It sold 250,000 copies on its initial release and probably alot more since.

However the PAL version sold 10,000 copies and got slated in the media for being 2D.

When Sony USA launched PS2, it was probably this kind of game they wanted to see the end of. Whats ironic is that I don't believe any of the Castlevania 3D series have ever bettered those sales of SOTN and the fans want it back in 2D.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:07 am

Nemo wrote: How does a game existing on the market hurt people? Are they being forced to buy it? I don't get it. It's no secret 3D games as a whole sell better, so since they are in the business to make money SCEA will be more open to games with 3D graphics. If they were really smart however, they would be inclusive to more 2D games which would only create more profit and wouldn't hinder the 3D market in anyway.

It's all about image. The PS2 has generally been regarded as a hip system suitable for play by the "coolest cat," something you really couldn't say about stuff like the NES and Saturn, which were "geeky" systems. SCEA wants as many games as possible on their system so that more people will buy it but not at the cost of disturbing its hip trend, which it likely believes (and perhaps correctly) has strongly contributed to its tremendous success in the US.

One of SCEA's biggest fears is probably seeing a poor-selling "16-bit game" retailing for full price on their PS2, leading the "average customer" to think that this game epitomizes PS2 technology. It generates little licensing fees for SCEA while may prove damaging to the PS2's "cool factor." If it's lower priced or in a collection, the "average customer" will likely think that it's a bargain or retro game and hence the PS2's reputation as a sleek and powerful machine is preserved.

Even though I hate SCEA for this line of reasoning (which is what I believe to be the only way to explain their actions assuming sanity on their part), they may have conclusive evidence of this effect being true. Thus, I wouldn't put them off as being dumb or anything. And thankfully, I can import games I want anyway, albeit at a higher premium and in a language I'm much less familiar in.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:09 am

Thunder Force wrote:
Dylan1CC wrote:I wonder how games like DOJ, Mushi, and Ibara get approved? Which is true and which isn't?
The alleged policy I was referring to is specifically by SCEA (Sony Computer Entertainment America) only, and does not apply at all for SCEI (Japan) or SCEE (EU).

Ah, thanks. My bad.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:09 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:SOTN was one of the last Sony games in 2D to be given full price in the USA. It sold 250,000 copies on its initial release and probably alot more since.

However the PAL version sold 10,000 copies and got slated in the media for being 2D.

When Sony USA launched PS2, it was probably this kind of game they wanted to see the end of. Whats ironic is that I don't believe any of the Castlevania 3D series have ever bettered those sales of SOTN and the fans want it back in 2D.

When Sony USA launched the PS2, the Gradius III and IV pack was an launch title. End of my ass.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:18 am

edit:

I registered and posted a message saying they should release Raiden III and other shooters released under Taito such as Toaplan's like Twin Cobra/Kyukyouku Tiger, Tiger Heli, ect. And of course, I humbly suggested they include TATE.

edit:

I edited my post to include the following extra suggestion:

edit: And what about Raiden Fighter games? There was a plan to release at least the first one for XBox over a year ago but the company that was porting it tanked. There are plenty of other games in the series that could make several nice compilation discs! Help us, Empire Interactive, you're our only hope.

bVork · Post by **bVork** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:03 am

Fighter17 wrote:When Sony USA launched the PS2, the Gradius III and IV pack was an launch title. End of my ass.

Two games. Thus a compilation.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:09 am

Gradius 4 is polygons isnt it?

I know it plays 2D, but so does almost every shooter.

Afterbirth · Post by **Afterbirth** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:48 pm

Raiden 3 is already being released on budget by 505 Gamestreet.

(As is Homura)

Both due March 2006.

At least in the UK....505 also do US games too don't they?

I know Michigan is due sometime now.

http://www.505gamestreet.it/products.htm?con=PS2S20

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:13 pm

Afterbirth wrote: At least in the UK....505 also do US games too don't they?

Nope.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:03 pm

Afterbirth wrote:Raiden 3 is already being released on budget by 505 Gamestreet.

(As is Homura)

Both due March 2006.

At least in the UK....505 also do US games too don't they?

I know Michigan is due sometime now.

http://www.505gamestreet.it/products.htm?con=PS2S20

Apparently they do PAL releases only. Not NTSC.

Afterbirth · Post by **Afterbirth** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:30 pm

Ahh...erm...bad luck.

Still, you could import the pal versions!

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:03 am

No, because we need PAL-compatible TVs to play PAL games as well. It's easy for me to stick with JP releases though and by the time they get to Europe, the games generally drop down to the same prices in Japan anyway.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:06 am

505 do NSTC 60hrz... well they did with guilty gear iskua anyway!