Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

If you have burn-in, the only solution is to acquire a new tube, and then recondition the old one into new parts.

Never fear - old CRTs with burn-in can still be quite usable depending on your usage case, and at the very least it can be helpful to have replacement parts from the rest of the monitor. For example, plug-in Input Adapter Boards on Sony PVMs and BVMs should always be rescued, and almost any other components can be saved as well. It's just the CRT itself that is problematic, because it's a self-contained unit with no easily replaced subassemblies.

Did you try using it at lower brightness settings? This might help reduce the visibility of burn-in.

Edit: Folks in Oregon, Oregon State U. is auctioning a BVM 20E1U with BKM-10R:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auctio ... uc=1240981

[jedman]

If you have burn-in, the only solution is to acquire a new tube, and then recondition the old one into new parts.

Never fear - old CRTs with burn-in can still be quite usable depending on your usage case, and at the very least it can be helpful to have replacement parts from the rest of the monitor. For example, plug-in Input Adapter Boards on Sony PVMs and BVMs should always be rescued, and almost any other components can be saved as well. It's just the CRT itself that is problematic, because it's a self-contained unit with no easily replaced subassemblies.

Did you try using it at lower brightness settings? This might help reduce the visibility of burn-in.

Edit: Folks in Oregon, Oregon State U. is auctioning a BVM 20E1U with BKM-10R:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auctio ... uc=1240981

Thanks Yeah Id like to get a new one when I can, havnt seen one of the D series BVM's at all though in the UK since I got my one, Thinking about getting one of the 24 inch widescreen ones, as I use mine for wii and PS2 and the picture quality is miles better than my LCD.

Wouls like to have the 20 as well though as would be usefull for rotating with shmups.

I think the brightness settings may help somewhat.

I did see a brand new monitor tube on ebay but its expensive and I wouldnt know how to replace it with my current one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-part-873 ... 23425a3df6

Or if this would be compatible with the D series higher resolution signals.

[Kaminari]

Hey guys. First of all, thank you all for the knowledge you have posted and shared with the community.

I recently purchased a BVM-20F1U. I have no issues with it except one. Whether the source is 240p (Mega Drive with RGB cable to RGB-to-BNC cable) or 480i (DVD player with component cables and BNC adapter plugs), the monitor has this almost constant up-down "jumping." This isn't like normal CRT jitter; the picture will jump up and down irregularly by about .5mm. For example, it'll do it for a few seconds, then stop for a second, then do it again. This is typically how it goes, but there's no set pattern as far as the length of time is concerned. The jumping or stillness can sometimes be longer or shorter than this.

Also, when the jumping occurs there's this change in color as well -- it's like a very, very subtle "blinking." The picture remains on screen, but gets ever so darker for a split second (I can't emphasize enough how subtle it is, but it is definitely happening). I've tried different outlets and different rooms in the house to no avail. Any ideas what this could be?

Sounds like some component inside your monitor is on its way out. Could be some capacitors. If you are lucky it is isolated to the input board that you can just swap for another.

Sorry, I forgot to mention it does this with both input boards. I bought it off eBay because these have never been available in my area. I'll speak with the seller tomorrow. I'd like to be able to keep it because the tube was replaced recently and only has 25 hours on it, but depending on what the issue is I may not be able to fix it myself. Do you guys have any advice? Should I propose sending back just the boards first? With the problems manifesting through both boards, what are the odds that that's where the problems lie?

[cicada88]

Picked up my Sony PVM-14L5 and PVM-20L5 about a week ago. I've been playing Famicom via composite on the 20", but I do have a Playstation and Mega Drive SCART cable on the way.

Here are some pics.

14" on top of the 20"


Back of the 20" -- it came with this jumper cable connected to the expansion board. The 14" has the same expansion board but no cable. Do I need one of these to use the board?


Back of the 14"


Closeup of the expansion board



Anything I should be aware of with these monitors. The 20" definitely needs some Geometry adjustment as it is off centered atm. I will wait until I can hook my Mega Drive up to use the test suite in order to make adjustments.

[Ed Oscuro]

The first thing I would so is open it up (carefully - there are a lot of screws and they aren't as easy to deal with as the 20L2 housing) and check the various plastic reinforcements. Given that it works, things probably aren't too bad, but you can spot any developing trouble areas. It also might be a good idea to dust off some of the things that can get really icky in there (depending on how much use it got, and where, it might be more like "sponging"). The little plastic wheel over the high voltage wire, and the plastic cover on top of the adjustments in the neck should both lift right off for a wash if you deem it right.

I would have given mine a thorough cleaning by now, but there's no easy way to get to some of the parts and disassembly is a pain given the spade connectors and the number of awkwardly placed boards.

[Ed Oscuro]

Thanks Yeah Id like to get a new one when I can, havnt seen one of the D series BVM's at all though in the UK since I got my one, Thinking about getting one of the 24 inch widescreen ones, as I use mine for wii and PS2 and the picture quality is miles better than my LCD.

There is a 24" BVM not too far away from me, listed on eBay - kind of incredible that it's been sitting around for so long. I was seriously considering it for a while, but I realized that not only is it going to be heavier than I want to deal with, but when I calculated its vertical dimension, that appears to be actually slightly shorter than a 20" PVM or BVM. This means that a 4:3 image displayed on that size will be smaller, despite the greater expense and hassles of the widescreen format. If I had a lot of 16:9 content, maybe it'd work. If one did show up at an incredible price, I'd jump on it, but as it is I wouldn't spend the $1000 or even try to talk them down to $500 for pickup - don't think it's worth that much. If it was newly serviced, maybe that'd be different.

Honestly things would be much better if more of the sellers on eBay actually serviced stuff and didn't just call it "B-stock" or whatever. Shipping is a terrible option as well.

[nyder]

Picked up my Sony PVM-14L5 and PVM-20L5 about a week ago. I've been playing Famicom via composite on the 20", but I do have a Playstation and Mega Drive SCART cable on the way.

Here are some pics.

14" on top of the 20"


Back of the 20" -- it came with this jumper cable connected to the expansion board. The 14" has the same expansion board but no cable. Do I need one of these to use the board?


Back of the 14"


Closeup of the expansion board



Anything I should be aware of with these monitors. The 20" definitely needs some Geometry adjustment as it is off centered atm. I will wait until I can hook my Mega Drive up to use the test suite in order to make adjustments.

You just need a BNC to SCART breakout cable. Like this:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Female-RGB-Euro- ... 2ed80bc6ee

Both those monitors have on board inputs as well as the add on cards which is nice
What I do on my 20l5 is use the onboard for component and the input card for RGB scart.

Nice to switch between the 2 by just hitting the option without having to enter the menu to switch between RGB and component.

Mind telling us what you paid?

BTW the input/expansion card looks non sony WTF, i didn't know third parties made these input cards.

Nyd

[cicada88]

Picked up my Sony PVM-14L5 and PVM-20L5 about a week ago. I've been playing Famicom via composite on the 20", but I do have a Playstation and Mega Drive SCART cable on the way.

Here are some pics.

14" on top of the 20"


Back of the 20" -- it came with this jumper cable connected to the expansion board. The 14" has the same expansion board but no cable. Do I need one of these to use the board?


Back of the 14"


Closeup of the expansion board



Anything I should be aware of with these monitors. The 20" definitely needs some Geometry adjustment as it is off centered atm. I will wait until I can hook my Mega Drive up to use the test suite in order to make adjustments.

You just need a BNC to SCART breakout cable. Like this:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Female-RGB-Euro- ... 2ed80bc6ee

Both those monitors have on board inputs as well as the add on cards which is nice
What I do on my 20l5 is use the onboard for component and the input card for RGB scart.

Nice to switch between the 2 by just hitting the option without having to enter the menu to switch between RGB and component.

Mind telling us what you paid?

BTW the input/expansion card looks non sony WTF, i didn't know third parties made these input cards.

Nyd

I paid $300 total for both. The seller was asking for $450. I had been looking for a month and no luck finding any locally. Then I found some about an hour away, but the guy raised his price after already agreeing to a deal, so I just dropped it out of principle. Then within a week these popped up on the radar 15 minutes away from me, so I went for it.

And yes the expansion cards are third party from "Ross Video". (model DAC-9213-PVM) http://www.rossvideo.com/pdf/manuals/ge ... 1-en-3.pdf

[nyder]

Nyd[/quote]


I paid $300 total for both. The seller was asking for $450. I had been looking for a month and no luck finding any locally. Then I found some about an hour away, but the guy raised his price after already agreeing to a deal, so I just dropped it out of principle. Then within a week these popped up on the radar 15 minutes away from me, so I went for it.

And yes the expansion cards are third party from "Ross Video". (model DAC-9213-PVM) http://www.rossvideo.com/pdf/manuals/ge ... 1-en-3.pdf[/quote]


You did really well I think, great deal, 2 l5 monitors both with input cards.

Try entering the service mode on the 20l5 "Degauss + Enter" then doing a factory reset, maybe that will sort out the geometry issues.

Try hooking up a PS2/Original Xbox/Wii with just regular component cables with BNC to RCA converters when you can, the picture will blow your mind. Dreamcast is great toowith a VGA box to BNC cable You'll be amazed how awesome the picture is. The 240p test suite does a great job via a soft modded wii. Maybe the geometry issues will not be present in RGB/Component.

Nyd

[BazookaBen]

Is the 20L5 an actual multisync CRT or does it have an internal scaler?

[Ed Oscuro]

Is the 20L5 an actual multisync CRT

yes

doesn't do 24KHz as far as I know, and 31KHz sync seems limited also - but it does 480p, 1080i, and 720p. Anything beyond that probably isn't supported (and of course won't be resolved by the 900 TVL spec anyways).

[cicada88]

Thanks for the info Ed & nyder. Unfortunately, I only have composite, s-video, and HDMI options right now--no component or RGB cables.

I used your instructions to factory reset, but the picture is still off center. It's nothing major just about 2-3 cm shifted to the right. Everything else looks decent at a cursory glance, but I'll have to get a grid up to know for sure.

A SCART to BNC adaptor as well as a PS1/PS2/PS3 RGB cable and a Mega Drive RGB cable are on the way.

Then I need to get a Toro box for my dreamcast and mod my PC Engine for RGB.

I can use the same cable on a PC Engine as a Mega Drive correct?

[nyder]

Thanks for the info Ed & nyder. Unfortunately, I only have composite, s-video, and HDMI options right now--no component or RGB cables.

I used your instructions to factory reset, but the picture is still off center. It's nothing major just about 2-3 cm shifted to the right. Everything else looks decent at a cursory glance, but I'll have to get a grid up to know for sure.

A SCART to BNC adaptor as well as a PS1/PS2/PS3 RGB cable and a Mega Drive RGB cable are on the way.

Then I need to get a Toro box for my dreamcast and mod my PC Engine for RGB.

I can use the same cable on a PC Engine as a Mega Drive correct?

Yeah I made the mistake of ordering a Hanzo, doesn't work on the l5 series

I was just playing my Splatterhouse hucard on my l5 in glorious RGB, its really something to behold.

I just got this cable in the mail today, it works on turbografx 16, coregrafx, coregrafx II and the supergrafx, sjhuttle lt Just plug and play AMP'ed RGB, no modding at all!!!

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171486387237?ssP ... 1439.l2649

Nyd

[cicada88]

Thanks for the info Ed & nyder. Unfortunately, I only have composite, s-video, and HDMI options right now--no component or RGB cables.

I used your instructions to factory reset, but the picture is still off center. It's nothing major just about 2-3 cm shifted to the right. Everything else looks decent at a cursory glance, but I'll have to get a grid up to know for sure.

A SCART to BNC adaptor as well as a PS1/PS2/PS3 RGB cable and a Mega Drive RGB cable are on the way.

Then I need to get a Toro box for my dreamcast and mod my PC Engine for RGB.

I can use the same cable on a PC Engine as a Mega Drive correct?

Yeah I made the mistake of ordering a Hanzo, doesn't work on the l5 series

I was just playing my Splatterhouse hucard on my l5 in glorious RGB, its really something to behold.

I just got this cable in the mail today, it works on turbografx 16, coregrafx, coregrafx II and the supergrafx, sjhuttle lt Just plug and play AMP'ed RGB, no modding at all!!!

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171486387237?ssP ... 1439.l2649

Nyd

Nice cable but expensive. I have also been wanting to get into hardware modding / soldering so moding my OG white PCE will be a good little project.

[nyder]

Thanks for the info Ed & nyder. Unfortunately, I only have composite, s-video, and HDMI options right now--no component or RGB cables.

I used your instructions to factory reset, but the picture is still off center. It's nothing major just about 2-3 cm shifted to the right. Everything else looks decent at a cursory glance, but I'll have to get a grid up to know for sure.

A SCART to BNC adaptor as well as a PS1/PS2/PS3 RGB cable and a Mega Drive RGB cable are on the way.

Then I need to get a Toro box for my dreamcast and mod my PC Engine for RGB.

I can use the same cable on a PC Engine as a Mega Drive correct?

Yeah I made the mistake of ordering a Hanzo, doesn't work on the l5 series

I was just playing my Splatterhouse hucard on my l5 in glorious RGB, its really something to behold.

I just got this cable in the mail today, it works on turbografx 16, coregrafx, coregrafx II and the supergrafx, sjhuttle lt Just plug and play AMP'ed RGB, no modding at all!!!

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171486387237?ssP ... 1439.l2649

Nyd

Nice cable but expensive. I have also been wanting to get into hardware modding / soldering so moding my OG white PCE will be a good little project.

Try making one of these cables. It's a very elegant solution. My coregrafx is region modded so stuffing an amp etc in there as well seemed like a pain.

Nyd

[Unseen]

Back of the 20" -- it came with this jumper cable connected to the expansion board. The 14" has the same expansion board but no cable. Do I need one of these to use the board?

That expansion board seems to be an SDI-to-Component decoder which only uses the monitor slot for power, but not for video - it needs the external cable to connect its outputs(!) to the monitor's component inputs. That means you do need the cable if you want to use the board, however you only need to use that board if you have an (HD-)SDI source that you want to connect to the monitor.

(too bad, I was hoping this board could be an alternative to the hard-to-find and expensive BKM-129X that I need for my 9L3)

[nyder]

Yeah the cheapest Sony BKM-129X on ebay is $225 before shipping.

[Ed Oscuro]

I got a pair of BKM-129X modules with my PVM-20L2s, $75 for each unit. They come as standard equipment. The Olympus OEV-203 should have them as well. In retrospect I should have picked up the 1954q on offer as well.

I would forget about eBay's BKM-129X modules and look more locally. Look in the back of monitors.

I don't know if the 14L3 is special in some way, but the benefit of the 20L2 is that it's a larger set (otherwise seeming identical, aside from the different bezel type).

[nyder]

You got lucky, no way they are standard.

My 20l2 and my 20l5 sadly had no input cards at all when I obtained them.

There is a guy locally selling a 14l2md with the BKM-129x pre-installed for $200.
I was almost tempted to to make an offer on it just to get the input card.

Nyd

[jedman]

If you have burn-in, the only solution is to acquire a new tube, and then recondition the old one into new parts.

Never fear - old CRTs with burn-in can still be quite usable depending on your usage case, and at the very least it can be helpful to have replacement parts from the rest of the monitor. For example, plug-in Input Adapter Boards on Sony PVMs and BVMs should always be rescued, and almost any other components can be saved as well. It's just the CRT itself that is problematic, because it's a self-contained unit with no easily replaced subassemblies.

Did you try using it at lower brightness settings? This might help reduce the visibility of burn-in.

Edit: Folks in Oregon, Oregon State U. is auctioning a BVM 20E1U with BKM-10R:
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auctio ... uc=1240981

Thinking about getting a replacement tube, is their any documentation online on how to swap the crt out for a new one on a BVM?

[Ed Oscuro]

You got lucky, no way they are standard.

They are standard equipment on the 20L2; I checked the official Sony product sheet. The 20L5 might be a different matter since there's a wide number of configurations...mine came with a 120D, which is kind of useless for our purposes.

So maybe you got unlucky

Thinking about getting a replacement tube, is their any documentation online on how to swap the crt out for a new one on a BVM?

The service manual, I guess.

The more important point is that new tubes aren't available anymore.

[nyder]

You got lucky, no way they are standard.

They are standard equipment on the 20L2; I checked the official Sony product sheet. The 20L5 might be a different matter since there's a wide number of configurations...mine came with a 120D, which is kind of useless for our purposes.

So maybe you got unlucky
[

I know I am unlucky, the product sheet indicates the cards are optional/options not standard.

◗ Signal Interface Options
With an optional adaptor inserted into the
option slot on the rear panel, PVM-L2
Series monitors can accept direct input
from a wide variety of signal formats.

But ya, lots of people have picked up PVM/BVM's with the option slots filled with some sorta optional adapter. If you are using for what we use these displays for and your lucky its a BKM-129x.

Nyd

[cruzlink2]

Hi guys, new to the forum so take it easy on me please . I asked this question a few pages back but no one answered me so I will ask again. I picked up a BVM 20E1U with BKM-10R, it did not come with a memory card. Seems to me sony uses a pcmcia card in there from the googling I did. My question is do I need the official sony card or can I use an off the shelf card with the control unit?

[Fudoh]

Why do you think you need a memory card ?

The memory card is only used to take settings over to a different unit. Your monitor will still save everything witout a PCMCIA card present.

[cruzlink2]

Why do you think you need a memory card ?

The memory card is only used to take settings over to a different unit. Your monitor will still save everything witout a PCMCIA card present.

Thanks for the feedback fudoh, the reason I thought I needed one was because I thought that the different settings per channels have to be stored in the card. Was not sure that the info was stored internally in the monitor, thanks for clearing that up for me. I will be posting here often with questions if you guys don't mind I am pretty new to this BVM thing, until now I was using a framemeister on a 42 inch toshiba.

Thanks

[jedman]

Thinking about getting a replacement tube, is their any documentation online on how to swap the crt out for a new one on a BVM?

The service manual, I guess.

The more important point is that new tubes aren't available anymore.[/quote]

I found one, Also got the service manual and replacing the tube looks like a hell of a lot of work.

[nyder]

I noticed one could obtain a traditional looking remote for the PVM-2X30 series, but my 20l5/l2 seem to have some sorta serial interface for a remote.

I would like to get a remote to more easily mess with the settings, I hate using the buttons, anyone know how remotes work with the l2/l5 series of PVMs?

I don't see a remote listed as an optional accessory on any of the spec sheets.

Nyd

[K-2]

What would you consider a worrisome amount of operation time on a BVM-20F1?

I just checked one of mine and found that it has 81,306 hours

[cicada88]

What would you consider a worrisome amount of operation time on a BVM-20F1?

Where in the service menu is operation time...

I haven't noticed it on my PVM-20L5

[nyder]

What would you consider a worrisome amount of operation time on a BVM-20F1?

Where in the service menu is operation time...

I haven't noticed it on my PVM-20L5

Apparently that functionality is only available on the BVM series.