NES Recommendations (very specific)

[cicada88]

BIL, I assume you are not including NES or Famicom Disk System titles in your list. (Metroid, Zelda 2, Zanac, Doki Doki Panic, Murasamejou--among others)

No Rockman, Mario, or Punch-Out!!

You're obviously an action junkie, but no love for Mother, Star Tropics, or Sweet Home? (I don't like RPG myself either but these 3 I consider pretty rad)

[BIL]

Correct on both counts. For now I just collect FC games. NES has quite a few I'd like to pick up, FDS only a couple true exclusives I find interesting (Murasame, Almana no Kiseki). If Akumajou Dracula hadn't been reissued on cart, that'd be a huge incentive for me to get the NES version but here we are.

For action games, I actually consider the NES (NTSC) to be the stronger system overall. Best versions of Castlevania III, Ninja Gaiden III and Shatterhand (the first two much moreso than the last), some neat exclusives from KID, plus a lot of good games that are disk-only in Japan like Jackal, Zanac, Gyruss and Section Z. I wouldn't say it's a clean sweep but the NES definitely fared much better than later systems at getting most of the best Japan stuff.

Ironically for someone who grew up in NES territory lusting after imports, the FC is by far the easier machine for me to collect for, so for now I stick with it. But aside from a handful of knockout exclusives (Holy Diver, Recca, Gimmick, categorically superior versions of Bionic Commando and Double Dragon II) the main benefit is far nicer presentation and the occasional absence of dumbass localisation. Hello Blaster Master!

About RPGs, yeah, these days I subscribe heavily to the arcade paradigm of intense single-session runs and the development of the player, not his avatar. There are quite a few games in my collection that would probably enter ARPG territory, but even among those I prefer stuff that lets you improvise/go without and preferably finish in a couple hours at most, like the original Zelda. Not an FC game, and not without its flaws, but Kenseiden (Mark III/SMS) is my ideal here. You can blaze a kamikaze trail straight for the last boss if you like, or spend time crisscrossing the map and taking down stages to build the ultimate swordsman, or anything in between.

I'm not against the genre in principle or anything though. I do have a couple of RPGs for PS2 that I'm fond of (SMT Nocturne and the excellent AGES 2500 Phantasy Star disc, which includes the English versions of all four games). Quite like Front Missions 3-5 too, might get the SFC ones if language barrier isn't too steep (big mech fan, and turn-based SRPGs can be a nice change of pace). I really liked what I've seen/heard of the Souls games too and have picked them all up, haven't gotten around to them yet though (like most previous/current-gen stuff, unfortunately).

I'm a casual Mario sidescroller fan at best, though I do enjoy them. SMW, Yoshi's Island and Collection on SFC are enough for me (I do hate the last one's screwed up SMB1/2 block breaking physics, but eh... not into SMB1 enough to get the cart and SMB2 is FDS only). Love the Rockman X SFC/PS1 games but don't really care for the original FC series, for reasons best elaborated by Squire here. Punch Out's definitely cool, not really into it though. I like Treasure's vicious Hajime no Ippo GBA game better. There's a game where you really feel like you're knocking motherfuckers out!

[cicada88]

Correct on both counts. For now I just collect FC games. NES has quite a few I'd like to pick up, FDS only a couple true exclusives I find interesting

Thanks for the extended reply.

I definitely prefer FC in general because of the cartridge colors, shapes, originality (in titles and content), but I am more of a hardware guy myself. I will spend whatever to get the Console, add-ons, cables, controllers, etc, but I will only buy games that I like the packaging for or can't be used on a flash cart.

I would rather own a terrible game with amazing cart and box art (your Argus for example), than something like Shatterhand--where the packaging is terrible and works 100% on my Everdrive (slightly bad example because of the packaging reaching ironic territory).

A game like Gimmick is great because it is the trifecta--doesn't work 100% with flash carts due to it's unique mapper, has good box art, and is a great game (these combined with it's rarity mean that it will hold or rise in value imo).

[Ed Oscuro]

Inevitably, people who buy games because the packaging looks pretty are setting themselves up for an at-a-loss firesale some years down the road. Saw it more than a couple times in the heyday of the Retrogaming Roundtable. Arguably the same thing happens here too, with people buying stuff to fit in (probably).

Beyond that I'm kind of shaking my head at the allegation that Shatterhand's art is bad. If you can't love something as '80s as that, how on earth did you settle on the system to begin with?

the development of the player, not his avatar.

[cicada88]

Inevitably, people who buy games because the packaging looks pretty are setting themselves up for an at-a-loss firesale some years down the road. Saw it more than a couple times in the heyday of the Retrogaming Roundtable. Arguably the same thing happens here too, with people buying stuff to fit in (probably).

Beyond that I'm kind of shaking my head at the allegation that Shatterhand's art is bad. If you can't love something as '80s as that, how on earth did you settle on the system to begin with?

Sorry you took it personally

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm not taking it personally, and I look forward to the firesale

[CIT]

Sure! I bolded the ones I was either set on from the start, or (re)discovered later and now consider equally essential. Italicised stuff I love too, but consider more bonus material. Typically picked those up after the bolds.

Some of the remainder were impulse pursuits, though I always take my time deciding whether something's really worth it - I still consider them worth having. There are a lot of games I like to some extent (see Datsugoku etc above), but don't feel compelled to own. I also expressly avoid "bulking up" any aspect of my gaming library (or stuff in general... I like an optimised space-to-fun ratio).

Thanks for posting your list. Good stuff there, as expected, and a few that I'm gonna have to look at more closely. Also a couple I'd be interested to hear someone argue for.

Balloon Fight
Dragon Fighter
Great Tank
Ningen Heiki: Dead Fox
Sqoon

Didn't really have these on my radar. Looking forward to checking them out. I had made a not of Dragon Fighter before, since it's Natsume, but somehow forgot about it again along the way. Recently found out about Dead Fox; what a rip off! But what a great one!

Double Dragon II

Never a big fan of series, as it always struck me as a bit of an underachiever. I always thought the PCE-CD version was the best way to go with DDII. Your take?

Fudoh Myouou Den

Wanna sell me on this one?

Gradius II

I recently beat the Arcade and PCE-CD versions of this. I was under the impression that the FC port is nothing like the improved reinterpretation of Salamander, but rather feels quite watered down in every respect. Or should I try it?

For action games, I actually consider the NES (NTSC) to be the stronger system overall. Best versions of Castlevania III, Ninja Gaiden III

I know you like your games challenging, but I think the Western versions of these don't improve the games in any way (which was not the reason the difficulty was increased anyway). And with Akumajo Densetsu the superior aesthetics make that version a no brainer, imo.

[Domino]

Max Warrior/Isolated Warrior is freaking good for what it is. I got it a month ago from Japan and finally started to get into the game yesterday. Good stuff!

[BIL]

Balloon Fight
Dragon Fighter
Great Tank
Ningen Heiki: Dead Fox
Sqoon

Didn't really have these on my radar. Looking forward to checking them out. I had made a not of Dragon Fighter before, since it's Natsume, but somehow forgot about it again along the way. Recently found out about Dead Fox; what a rip off! But what a great one!

Balloon Fight I consider part of an informal early years trilogy in my FC collection, along with Excitebike and Spartan X. I find their vividly pixelly aesthetic totally charming and ageless, and all revolve with arcadey tightness around simple, flawlessly executed mechanics (of course BF and Spartan actually were AC-sourced).

I would say that ultimately only Excitebike is legitimately good for competition (via time trials) - BF and Spartan loop endlessly AFAIK, and neither have the quite the intensity to make that interesting (unless you want to counterstop Balloon Trip mode with 1mil - that definitely would be FN intense, I've only made it to 200k so far). I like to throw 'em on for a few loops apiece and occasionally go for a normal game counterstop. Probably only truly worth it if you love their respective floating and fighting mechanics like I do, as well as that distinct sense of the early FC trying to emulate an arcade experience. This goes particularly for BF, with it seeming harder to find in decent CIB condition for a reasonable price, perhaps owing to its age.

Dragon Fighter I'm a very strong advocate of - it totally has its spot as the first in a Natsume sidescrolling action trilogy, followed by Yami no Shigotonin Kage and Solbrain. It can be quite refreshing coming back to DF after them - it's much more of a pick up and play hack and slasher, with the same super-tight handling and a neat super meter charge/release groove. Knockout soundtrack as usual from Natsume. Do note that Choujin Sentai Jetman isn't on the level of these three, despite aesthetic similarity and the same solid controls (same engine?). Its action just isn't very interesting.

Great Tank isn't as instantly arresting a shooter as Guevara, being a much heavier-handling game overall. I really like its concept of traversing a massive, contiguous warzone in a powerful but vulnerably inelegant tank. Feels very arcade/adventure rumbling through forests, along riversides and into towns while battling enemy land, air and sea forces. Love or hate it, the handling does take some adjusting to - I posted some brief tips here.

Dead Fox, yeah... utterly brazen Rolling Thunder copycat, but honestly so damned good. It doesn't pull its punches either - super tough strategic shooter, the razor sharp controls aren't mere luxury.

Sqoon's a cute little oddity. Simple, sharply handling and often blazing-fast hori with a neat Defender-ish rescue mechanic (which ties directly into survival). I don't know if it's actually any good to play for score but I like the speed, simplicity and charmingly tiny, detailed sprites - snapped it up for cheap.

Double Dragon II

Never a big fan of series, as it always struck me as a bit of an underachiever. I always thought the PCE-CD version was the best way to go with DDII. Your take?

I was watching a longplay of the PCE-CD version recently, wondering if I might pick it up - thought its stages seemed a bit drawn out in comparison to the FC's more compact ones, and the graphics lacked that certain low-fi Technos FC charm. I've never played it firsthand so I can't say much more, though. I'm a huge fan of Technos's particular beltscroller ethic, where you've really got to batter enemies senseless for the KO (and they'll try to do the same to you, in viciously underhanded style). FC DDII condenses the violence into short, varied stages, it controls superbly and it also has a great arsenal of basic and special moves to mix up. Note that the NES one isn't as good; AI is weaker and you can just knee everything to death. I should also say, I have an inherent love for that slightly superdeformed Technos FC style (outright superdeformed, in the FC Kunios' cases). The exaggerated pain expressions and chunky sound effects, and so on... this inevitably makes me particularly fond of this version.

DD as a whole is definitely a patchy series. I would say if you want outright excellence, skip everything pre-2005 and get Double Dragon Advance. Refines away all the chaff and plays like a dream - smooth controls, enormous moveset, slick juggle engine and stiff arcade challenge. Worth playing on a big screen with a nice stick.

Fudoh Myouou Den

Wanna sell me on this one?

Haha, I really like it even though it was totally an impulse pickup. It seems cheap and common on eBay for now, it's a snapcase game too so it's a bit less trying to get in nice shape. I wrote a bit about it here. Neat Kage no Densetsu home sequel which might be longer than it should be, but the content itself is quality.

Gradius II

I recently beat the Arcade and PCE-CD versions of this. I was under the impression that the FC port is nothing like the improved reinterpretation of Salamander, but rather feels quite watered down in every respect. Or should I try it?

I'd say give it a go - it's by Umechan Team of FC Salamander/Contra/Super Contra acclaim, and like those it really adds/changes enough stuff to feel like its own thing, especially towards the end with an epic finale that fuses the Speed and Mechanical Base stages together with an entirely new final area.

However, as with DDII, I'm a big fan of the particular style the FC brought out of that team, so that does boost it a few points in my book - YMMV (this goes for all four Konami ports). I need to try out the PCE-CD version of Gradius II. Actually I need to play more PCE in general, I've not started collecting for it in earnest since its jewel cases seem easier to find in good shape than FC/SFC boxes.

I know you like your games challenging, but I think the Western versions of these don't improve the games in any way (which was not the reason the difficulty was increased anyway). And with Akumajo Densetsu the superior aesthetics make that version a no brainer, imo.

I think NGIII is the apotheosis of Dracula-style sidescrolling action - the sense of resistance and pressure almost from the get-go is just nirvana. The damage scale, TBH I think is a little overboard and more befitting of a second loop/Expert mode, but the item and enemy placement is dead-on where Ryukenden III feels a bit weak (in comparison to not only NGIII, but the previous two games). However, I'll never ditch the FC version even if I eventually get the NES one. It's fun to mow through while enjoying the spectacular presentation. Infuriatingly, the version of the game on the SFC comp combines the sensible JP damage scale with the more intense US level layouts... but it looks and especially sounds like shit. >_<

CVIII/Akumajou Densetsu is a much less extreme case - I think the first loop is fine either way, and actually find the NES one's making all loop 2 monsters great and small do max damage a dumb, ham-fisted change (on FC's second loop, only the big bruisers will take a chunk of HP). But I love the exclusive CVIII monsters, as uncommon as they are. If the FC had them I wouldn't even be considering getting the NES version someday.

Max Warrior/Isolated Warrior is freaking good for what it is. I got it a month ago from Japan and finally started to get into the game yesterday. Good stuff!

I really like this one too, put it on my list. Only complaint is the music - it's weak. The walk n' blasting is great though! KID have some wicked games on FC.

[cicada88]

Some recent additions to my Everdrive trial list:

Raid on Bungeling Bay
Spelunker
Chack'n Pop
Donald Land
Metal Max
Wits
Flying Hero
Quinty
Pro Golfer Saru

Also all this recent talk on KID games made me throw the 2 G.I. Joe games, Family Pinball, and Low G Man on as well.

[BIL]

Oh yeah, one more thing about Sqoon (and other Irem-published FC games from around that time): there were two print runs, the earlier with cartridge-mounted red LEDs, and a later one without. The later, LED-less carts are supposedly scarcer and costlier. The first run are cheaper and much cooler. ^__^ (and practical too, on an original FC with its lack of power light!)

The terrifying Japanese TV commercial

Makes the manual look almost normal.

[cicada88]

Oh yeah, one more thing about Sqoon (and other Irem-published FC games from around that time): there were two print runs, the earlier with cartridge-mounted red LEDs, and a later one without. The later, LED-less carts are supposedly scarcer and costlier. The first run are cheaper and much cooler. ^__^ (and practical too, on an original FC with its lack of power light!)

The terrifying Japanese TV commercial

Makes the manual look almost normal.

The idea of the light in the cartridge for a system without a power light is amazingly creative. The carts are pretty ugly though overall with that butter yellow and the busy design they used on the labels.

compared to the later Irem games...

[CIT]

Dead Fox, yeah... utterly brazen Rolling Thunder copycat, but honestly so damned good. It doesn't pull its punches either - super tough strategic shooter, the razor sharp controls aren't mere luxury.

I actually happened to play some Ninja Cop Saizou today, which I had picked up cheaply a while back expecting a B-class Shinobi/Ninja Gaiden mashup, and was surprised to find another Rolling Thunder ripoff. Seemed serviceable, but not nearly as technically accomplished and tight as Dead Fox. The cutscenes also have incredibly goofy character designs — ever wanted to hold a knife at Super Mario's throat? Well, this is your game!

[cicada88]

In honor of Halloween, starting tonight, I am going to try to complete the following games by the end of October.

Akumajou Dracula
Akumajou Densetsu

Boku Dracula Kun

Holy Diver

Monster Party

Splatterhouse Wanpaku Graffitti

Sweet Home

I've only beat the last 2 before, so this should be a good opportunity to get through some of these.
Anything I'm missing for Halloween? (must be worthwhile not just themed)

[BIL]

Holy Diver is arcade-tough, be warned! Unfortunately it also has a couple of aggravating flaws on top of the calculated brutality. One of my favourite FC treasures but it takes some working with.

Red Arremer II is monster-themed and quite excellent. I prefer it to the superb SFC sequel - there's more of a focus on hardcore action/platforming, with quality level design revolving around the hover+wall-cling mechanics.

Abadox might be stretching a bit but it's most definitely space horror-themed (and a great shooter from Natsume, too). Takes Salamander's first stage and runs with it, some really gruesome bio/necro-horror settings and enemy designs in there. Also incorporates a bit of mechanisation, which just makes things even cooler.

[cicada88]

Holy Diver is arcade-tough, be warned! Unfortunately it also has a couple of aggravating flaws on top of the calculated brutality. One of my favourite FC treasures but it takes some working with.

Red Arremer II is monster-themed and quite excellent. I prefer it to the superb SFC sequel - there's more of a focus on hardcore action/platforming, with quality level design revolving around the hover+wall-cling mechanics.

Abadox might be stretching a bit but it's most definitely space horror-themed (and a great shooter from Natsume, too). Takes Salamander's first stage and runs with it, some really gruesome bio/necro-horror settings and enemy designs in there. Also incorporates a bit of mechanisation, which just makes things even cooler.

I'm pretty familiar with Abadox but it's a bit of a stretch for pure Halloween vibes. I've already beat it before anyway.

Red Arremer 2 for sure...thanks for reminding me

It was on my mental list earlier today when I thought this challenge up, but I've never played it or any of the other games in the series so it should be nice.

Given your warning, I guess I'll save Holy Diver for last then.

[BrianC]

I haven't played it, but Monster in my Pocket looks decent. I also heard good things about Shadowgate and liked the GBC version. New Ghostbusters 2 (JP and EU only, not to be confused with that other Ghostbusters 2 game) looks like it might be good fun for Halloween. Not horror themed, but Batman goes well with Halloween and is a slick NES game to boot.

[Pretas]

Despite HAL Labs' pedigree, New Ghostbusters II is only worth it for diehard fans of the franchise. It gets extremely repetitive very quickly, and navigation can be confusing. There isn't another classic Ghostbusters game that lets you play as Louis, though.

Compile's Mega Drive release is without a doubt the best game tied to the franchise, though it has its share of flaws. The bosses feel like something out of a Treasure game.

[cicada88]

final boss of Akumajou Dracula is a bitch, can't give up or move on to the next one till I get it though...

EDIT:

Finally!



Castlevania was a great game by the way--glad I took this chance to finally play through it.

Doing Red Arremer 2 next...

[BIL]

OG Dracula is one of my favourite last bosses ever for one simple reason: RNG terror. You only have a fraction of a second to spot and evade his teleports, the worst instances of which can cross you up; if you're slow or panic and run the wrong way, that's a quarter of your lifebar gone (or more, if you didn't do too well earlier). At the same time if he pops up far from your position, you have to scramble over his projectiles to land some hits before he gets away for another chance at a direct impact. It always feels like a real showdown and test of nerves.

[Drum]

Remember that cat fight we had over RNG in shmups? Good times, good times.

[BIL]

Indeed, I too recall it fondly! Oh the dalliances of youth. ~_~

Your obstacle course analogy is a useful one, wish I'd just concurred back then tbh. I've always been supportive of certain hazards within an overall stable course (Dracula, Black Heart mkII, enemy racecar #021 etc) having unpredictable behaviour.

[cicada88]

OG Dracula is one of my favourite last bosses

Woke up today with a severe case of D-Pad Thumb.

I agree that in hindsight it was a pretty great boss. The others in the game were pretty blah.

Luckily you get unlimited continues and the respawn is right before the boss. If they had made you trek through the entire last level on every new continue it would have been pretty painful.

It took me awhile to figure out the best strategy for me. The cool thing is that you have a lot of options:
- You can time your jumps so the boss shoots into the air, whiffing you.
-You can actually jump up and arc over the shots, and whip him in the face on the decline.
-You can just give up on getting a hit and block the blasts with a well time standing whip.

I literally tried all of these, and would get progressively better at every attempt of each strategy. I felt like each new tactic was "the one" I had previously been looking for. The fact that you need 16 hits to finish the first form makes it a pretty trying act of stamina. Especially after failing 10 times in a row, it starts to wear you down.

Anyway, I eventually found out that my best strategy was to stay in an area to the left or right of center for a time, and right before when he appears, I would begin to walk to the other side of the center. It keeps him in the centerish area for most of the spawns, and makes sure one doesn't get trapped in the corners. I also found that just jumping straight up at the edge of whip range, and as the bullets pass beneath, whip the monster in his face. It was just easier for me to get the timing down to where I would only get hit 1 or 2 times only during the first phase.

Definitely a sense of accomplishment, and a little too hard is much better than too easy.

[BIL]

With the first form, an easy way to get multiple hits per materialising is to bounce the boomerang off a wall whenever Dracula appears near a corner. If you've got hearts to spare, it also makes sense to keep a boomerang (or two) in the air in case he appears too far away to close in on.

There's actually a really high performance ceiling for that fight. funkdoc's Awesome Games Done Quick 2014 speedrun demolishes the first form with boomerangs before killing the second with holy water almost instantly. But with the wildly unpredictable RNG this is obviously easier said than done (funkdoc is one hell of a live runner).

For my part, if I carry the x3 boomerang I usually kill Death with all the way through stage 6 to Dracula, it's pretty smooth sailing. With all the boomerangs flying you can pretty much concentrate fully on not getting telefragged. However the giant bats on the bridge can be real assholes, as can the eagle+hunchback gauntlet in the clock tower, making the stopwatch found early on awfully tempting. So if I'm feeling a bit chicken I get the watch on the bridge for guaranteed safe passage, and make do with a x1 boomerang at Dracula. It's fairly easy to get double and triple shots by boomeranging his projectiles. The projectiles themselves should be simply leapt over, once you've absorbed the timing. Too early and they'll target you in the air, too late and Dracula will get away before the whip connects.

Creature+Igor and Death are two of my favourite sidescroller bosses ever. The unpredictability and sheer punishment handed out for indecision feels like the singleplayer equivalent of something like SSFII Turbo. Even some of the most impressive speedrunners I've seen fear the latter's RNG. Sometimes if I'm feeling really cocky I'll fight them with the non-cheeseable subweapons (dagger/axe), but it's most definitely advisable to just shut them down with x3 boomerang/holy water.

I've been thinking of doing a dagger-only run of both loops sometime, actually. No subweapon at all is a bit dull, but the other four tend to eclipse the dagger. It's pretty satisfying nailing stuff from across the screen with a well-placed shot, as well as having to really contend with the nastier bosses.

[cicada88]

The most legendary days in Famisoft history:

December 15, 1989: Abadox, Sweet Home


HOLY SHIT!-----> December 22, 1989: Akumajou Densetsu, Batman, Double Dragon 2 <-----HOLY SHIT!


April 26, 1991: Gun-Dec, Lagrange Point, Over Horizon, Takahashi Meijin no Boukenjima 2

January 31, 1992: Bucky O'Hare, Gimmick

July 17, 1992: Mitsume ga Tooru, Recca and Red Arremer II


Honorable mention to the month of December, 1988: Ninja Ryukenden, Vs. Excitebike, Gradius II, Final Fantasy II, Tetris, Rockman 2, and Guevara

[BIL]

So much goodness. Seems almost surreal imagining being into importing when all that stuff was first hitting shelves.

I was surprised at how late Bucky's release was when I got back into it recently, I didn't remember it being post-SFC at all. It shows though, game is technically and artistically airlock tight. I love those end of generation productions, where you can tell the devs had mastered their platform and were going absolutely balls-out, new hardware be damned. Stuff like Metal Storm, fucking RECCA, Alien Soldier on MD and Endless Duel on SFC.

[cicada88]

So much goodness. Seems almost surreal imagining being into importing when all that stuff was first hitting shelves.

Think of walking into a Tokyo department store, walking out with Sunsoft Batman, Double Dragon II, and Akumajou Densetsu on release day.



Batman and Akumajou Densetsu are 2 of the games blowing my mind recently--25 years after the fact.

[Domino]

So I got a FDS yesterday, and two games don't work on it, lol. Who cares thou Zanac works! Nom Nom Nom.

[nosorrow]

The first NES Batman is indeed, to this day, an amazing game. It easily qualifies into my personal NES top ten.

[GSK]

Speaking of, someone turned Shadow of the Ninja into a Batman game recently: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2162/