Hello shmup forum. Relatively new player here.

[Zahaele]

(I would've normally just posted this in the question asking thread but it's also an introduction so I decided on making a separate thread).

Hello shmup board, I'm pretty new here.

So around 4-5 years back I ended up discovering Touhou (I'm just saying I got into shmups via Touhou. I know the forum generally doesn't like the series, but the fact of the matter is if it didn't exist, I would not be here right now. I apologize for referencing it so much through the post; I don't have experience with much anything else. Let's try to keep flames to a minimum). I didn't really care for the fandom, although I paid it some mind and played some of the fan games. After maybe a month or so of being a Touhou fan, I finally got the nerve to actually play some of the games. I had prior experience with the genre somewhere when I was much younger (single digits or early double digits) and it wasn't really my cup of tea. I don't really remember what game I played in particular, I just remember playing a shmup at an arcade and doing terribly. The games were very accessible, and after a while I could finally start 1ccing the games on normal provided I use all my bombs at my disposal and don't get greedy. I ended up moving on to some other game after a while.

A few months ago, I remembered Touhou existed again, and started focusing more on the games (and also the music remixes) as opposed to the rest of the franchise, and they're pretty fun. I'm still about as terrible at them as I was back then, however, but I'm enjoying myself so I don't mind all too much.

I'm liking Touhou and all, and I'm still enjoying the games, but I'm itching for more shmups. I don't play them that religiously right now, but I do love them. There's something about playing a game solely for gameplay and self-improvement and a mechanically high skill cap that really appeals to me, even though I still mostly just suck and die. I've been looking at plenty of different youtube videos of things like DDP and Mushi, but I'm not sure if I'm too interested in them.

TL;DR I moved from being a Touhou fan, to being a Touhou fan who actually plays the games, to being a shmup fan. Sorry for the long intro.

2 questions:

1: What are some good shmups for me to play and start moving from Touhou? I've done some research, but I'm still not too sure. I don't really care too much about whatever the setting or aesthetic is unless it's not overly anime-ish (Touhou is pretty tolerable, Alternative Sphere is not). However, it would be nice if the bullets weren't too... flashy, I guess? I don't really like it when the screen is overly noisy (Touhou's bullet patterns might be dense, but the bullets generally aren't too bright and glowy so I can generally easily discern the patterns). I just don't want anything that looks cluttered like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia6gVucDSj0 . Finally, it should be playable on the computer. Call me lazy, but I'm not willing to buy an arcade cabinet or a japanese xbox360 or anything like that just to play a shmup. MAME is acceptable. Hellsinker might be a good choice, but the system is silly convoluted. Anyway, the point is, what other shmups should I play having already played Touhou?

2: Is there anything in particular to know and work on to get better at shmups? Any particular way to practice? I know some of the basic techniques like inching across the screen slowly when bullets are continually aimed at you, and going fast to create a gap in those bullets to pass through and cross over. Or moving back with the bullets til you can find an opening. My main weaknesses seem to be greed (trying to graze and coming too close or getting killed trying to get to the PoC or getting UFOs gets me killed more often than the patterns themselves until later stages) and not using all my bombs with each life (probably because when I get greedy I think that using a bomb just for some powerups isn't worth it). What other things are there to keep in mind?

[Sasupoika]

We probably should have a sticky for "I am new what shmups should I go for"-question.
But anyway, on PC I'd recommend getting Crimzon Clover on Steam. Kamui and Alltynex2nd are coming up soon as well, get those as well. Check out Ikaruga, it's pretty good although kinda gimmicky game.
As for freeware, there's Blue Wish Resurrection, XOP Ultra Bundle and Solid State Survivor.
Hellsinker would be definitely a good choice as well. It might seem bit strange early on, but with little playing you should be able to grasp the mechanics of the game.

As for MAME; I'd say you should try some games that are most representative of their work.

CAVE - Dodonpachi
Psikyo - Strikers II or III.
Seibu Kaihatsu - Raiden II or Raiden Jet Fighters
Raizing - Armed Police Batrider or Battle Garegga
Takumi - Mars Matrix or Giga Wing

Biggest names that come into my mind right now...

2. Just play and you should improve overall.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Seibu Kaihatsu - Raiden II or Raiden Jet Fighters
Raizing - Armed Police Batrider or Battle Garegga

Let me fix that for you.
Seibu Kaihatsu - Raiden DX or Raiden Fighters Jet
Raizing - Armed Police Batrider or Battle Bakraid

[ACSeraph]

Forget 2hu, play Darius.

/endthread

[Skykid]

We probably should have a sticky for "I am new what shmups should I go for"-question..

Ahahaha, this fucking forum, seriously.

[cave hermit]

Seibu Kaihatsu - Raiden II or Raiden Jet Fighters
Raizing - Armed Police Batrider or Battle Garegga

Let me fix that for you.
Seibu Kaihatsu - Raiden DX or Raiden Fighters Jet
Raizing - Armed Police Batrider or Battle Bakraid

Refixed:
Seibu Kaihatsu - Raiden DX or Raiden Fighters Jet
Raizing - Armed Police Batrider or Battle Garegga

Who are you going to trust: Yagawa's closest apostle, or the man who cruelly betrayed him?

[Plasmo]

cave hermit finally did it right.

Good taste - It's not that difficult, you could at least try.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm just saying I got into shmups via Touhou. I know the forum generally doesn't like the series

I don't think the forum actively hates the series, more the fact that a lot of good shmups are niche compared to Touhou. The forum does have scoreboards for most of the games in the series, and there's some pretty serious scoreplayers who post in them.

If anything, Cave is a more polarizing company to mention here than Zun's games are.

Also: play Espgaluda. One of Cave's coolest shmups also happens to be one with some very fun mechanics that are actually quite friendly to beginners.

You also can't go wrong with X_X's games: http://www004.upp.so-net.ne.jp/x_xgamer ... works.html

[Cagar]

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[Skykid]

Damn, posting and remembering these really made me want to cagar label more games. Who's ready to let your game get shit on next? Space moth?

I think you already shat on that by passing undue pre-judgement in a highly disingenuous fashion in the dedicated thread. Not the kind of developer to developer pat on the back I'd expect.

[Zaarock]

Damn, posting and remembering these really made me want to cagar label more games. Who's ready to let your game get shit on next? Space moth?

Our frothing demand for shit-labels increases

[Cagar]

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[Skykid]

No idea, but you wrote off the final version on a whim because you didn't agree with the sound of scoring mechanic.

As an independent developer yourself I'd expect you to be sharing goodwill rather than preemptive criticism.

[Cagar]

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[trap15]

I think we're in agreement that it doesn't sound promising to just "slap" a scoring mechanic on the game in the very final phases of development, right?

One word: Ketsui.

[Skykid]

No idea, but you wrote off the final version on a whim because you didn't agree with the sound of scoring mechanic.

As an independent developer yourself I'd expect you to be sharing goodwill rather than preemptive criticism.

Uh excuse me? I provided detailed insight on my thoughts and opinions on the next page. The first post was mostly just checking the dev's reaction. I never even said that his game is somehow objectively bad, but I think we're in agreement that it doesn't sound promising to just "slap" a scoring mechanic on the game in the very final phases of development, right?

You must have overlooked the post where I mentioned said 'slapped on' scoring mechanic had been banded about during initial play testing over a year ago.

The point is saying 'sounds wack, I'll give it a miss' is kind of okay coming from an average Joe, but from a fellow developer it's a tad embarrassing because there's an air of oneupmanship about it. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy the stuff you worked long and hard on being written off so flippantly either.

[Cagar]

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[Special World]

I'm just saying I got into shmups via Touhou. I know the forum generally doesn't like the series

I don't think the forum actively hates the series, more the fact that a lot of good shmups are niche compared to Touhou. The forum does have scoreboards for most of the games in the series, and there's some pretty serious scoreplayers who post in them.

If anything, Cave is a more polarizing company to mention here than Zun's games are.

Also: play Espgaluda. One of Cave's coolest shmups also happens to be one with some very fun mechanics that are actually quite friendly to beginners.

You also can't go wrong with X_X's games: http://www004.upp.so-net.ne.jp/x_xgamer ... works.html

Is it weird that my favorite of this bunch is Green Wind? Really pure fantasy/RPG style that I haven't seen in any other shooter.

Also Blue Wish Resurrection Plus may be the ugliest game I've ever played X_X

[trap15]

You must have overlooked the fact that I judged the 'slapped on' scoring mechanic with this being the only information about it:
"A new bullet grazing bonus has also been added to raise the score and skill ceiling - enjoy!"
and that the earlier demo didn't have it. It's a slapped on mechanic, and that you have talked about it a year ago or so doesn't change it.

Ketsui:
"A new box-chip chaining system has also been added to raise the score and skill ceiling - enjoy!"

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Also Blue Wish Resurrection Plus may be the ugliest game I've ever played X_X

BWR I think is my fave of his games. But good god are the sprites ugly, they use this terrible low-res prerendering of 3D models that makes the prerendered sprites in DOJ and Espgaluda look beautiful by comparison (which range from okay, to pretty bad).

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

Try not to over-complicate things. If you think something you look at is sexy, fuck it. Luckily games don't ever say no.

[Skykid]

If you think something you look at is sexy, fuck it.

If only it were so easy.

[LordHypnos]

Yeah, probably the best thing to do is check out games from various well liked developers, and PC freeware. Some of the more modern stuff has been recommended, such as Raizing, CAVE, Takumi, Psikyo. All are good suggestions to somebody looking to branch out. I'm personally going to recommend Takumi's Mars Matrix, because it's awesome! Note that it plays almost completely differently from Touhou.

Some of the oldschool stuff is also worth checking out, though it may not personally appeal to you, and I'm not really that well versed in which games are most popular. Examples include: Irem (R-Type series is their most well known. Folks around here usually like R-Type Delta or the original), Konami (Gradius series, Parodius series, maybe also Xexex. Not sure which games are usually the favorites), Toaplan (Batsugun, V . V, Fire Shark), Techno Soft (Thunder Force III, Thunder Force IV, Elemental Master), Taito (Darius series, Ray Force. I think that Gaiden is usually the favorite Darius), Compile (no idea what games are good from these guys). Most of these are available in MAME, those that aren't are usually available via other emulators (Techno Soft games are on Genesis, Compile games are in a few places, including NES, Turbografx 16, SNES, and Genesis).

My recommendations for PC freeware are rRootage, Parsec 47, and Noiz2sa (by ABA games), Cho Ren Sha 68k (by Famibe No Yosshin), Genetos (by Tatsuya Koyama), Blue Wish Resurrection Plus (X.X). I also quite like Green Wind and Eden's Edge by X.X, Eden's Aegis, on the other hand, has a bit too complicated of scoring, I think, not that I've really figured out scoring totally in other X.X games. There's a ton of others too. Actually would probably be worth combing over the development forum at some point for nice freeware game-maker games.

I'd recommend looking up some footage of these games to see if they look like they'd be fun, then try them out to see if they actually are to you. To shamelessly self-promote, you can start with my shitty quality Mars Matrix 1cc video .

EDIT: Also check out the most recent Top 25 (including the honorable mentions list), that'll give you lots of good suggestions.

[Prinny]

For freeware, Leiria -Stargazer- is also worth checking out. From what I understand, it plays very similar to Espgaluda.

From ABA games, Tumiki Fighters is also pretty fun if you don't mind horizontal shooters. The main challenge is trying to collect enemy parts without losing any of the things you already collected.

Others already mentioned X.X games. I can't add much outside what has already been said.

As far as getting better in shmups is concern, pretty much what Sasupoika said on just playing. It might also help if you keep notes of how you are playing. Its what I've been doing for Perfect Cherry Blossom as I attempt to score in it.

[nasty_wolverine]

you guys realize that you scared the noob away already....???

[LordHypnos]

you guys realize that you scared the noob away already....???

Yeah. I feel like these threads generally are a form of hazing for the OP. If they can handle the responses then they will stick around, otherwise they run away.

[nasty_wolverine]

you guys realize that you scared the noob away already....???

Yeah. I feel like these threads generally are a form of hazing for the OP. If they can handle the responses then they will stick around, otherwise they run away.

good thing you sticked around. you re a good guy to have around.

"Be a MAN, go play Mars Matrix."

[Zahaele]

you guys realize that you scared the noob away already....???

I'm still very much here.

I've just been busy playing out some of the games you've mentioned here.

I'm trying some Green Wind and Crimzon Clover right now.

[Lord Satori]

There's literally a thread just like this on the next page! ffs, can a mod sticky it or something because this is like a monthly trend here.

[LordHypnos]

good thing you sticked around. you re a good guy to have around.

"Be a MAN, go play Mars Matrix."

Thanks, Mr. Wolverine

@Zehaele: Any ones in particular have stood out yet? Just curious