Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

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blizzz
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Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

Image

I've had the idea to create a website with compiled information on how to capture analogue video games for several years now. I'm finally at the point where I think that my setup is good enough to share with others. Most of the information comes from the people who contribute to this forum. If you want to be credited just leave a comment and I'll add your name. I won't put any ads or tracking on the site.

There are several sites that deal with RGB quality (retrorgb.com), upscalers (retrogaming.hazard-city.de) or general gaming (videogameperfection.com), but I didn't really see a website that concentrates on how you can record retro consoles in the best quality. I don't want to steal viewers from these sites, but add more information about the capture process to what's already available.

The page is divided into two sections. The main page which is an introduction to different cable types, CRTs, upscaling and capture devices. It also lists a couple of problems that I ran into. It's all put into a single document with a navigation bar to skip between chapters. The second part will consist of tutorials with more in-depth instructions and screenshots of the programs. I'm still working on this one. It should run fine on any of the major browsers and the basic stuff was also accessible with the touchscreen on my notebook. The page scales to your browser size, if you don't see the sidebar you might want to increase the window size.

Thanks to Fudoh, fagin and Thrill for your work for the community over the years!

I'd love to hear some feedback. Constructive criticism is also welcome.

Edit:
13.09. Fixed several errors and added information about dithering and an example to the scanline section.
Last edited by blizzz on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Fudoh
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Fudoh »

very extensive and easily understable. I'm not through yet, so I'll update later on.

On the first line of "Video output rate and RGB range", you write:
The standard refresh rate for NTSC is 59.94Hz for progressive signals and 29.97Hz for interlaced signals
that's technically wrong or at least very misleading. It's one of the main reasons why so many people believe that the result of a deinterlaced 480i60 signal is a 480p30 signal. Better fix that :mrgreen:
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Fudoh »

LCD TVs aren't so forgiving and try to draw a new picture exactly 59.94 times per second
not exactly right either. Most LCDs have a certain range to which they can adapt and they'll only start to drop or double frames outside that range. If you got a DVDO processor with that scrollling bar test pattern you can easily check that out.
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Xan
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Xan »

The NTSC SNES for example outputs at roughly 60.10Hz. This doesn't look like a big difference from the 59.94Hz standard, but it will result in a dropped frame every 6.3 seconds.
In past discussions here I think it was stated that this is more of an issue with LCDs/scalers than CRTs?

Edit: overread the previous paragraph while skimming the text :mrgreen:
Last edited by Xan on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Fudoh »

On your paragraph about deinterlacing you mention 240p games recorded in 480i. Feel free to link to my "all fixing" VDub/AviSynth package here: http://pms.hazard-city.de/240p_Package.zip

It's really the best way to convert any of those videos in a proper 480p60 stream. Including a fix for the line offset between the fields.

3 files included: fieldshift.vdf is a plugin filter for VDub. The .vcf file is the saved processing chain for VDub and the .avs file is the frameserver file you use to get your source file into the VDub.
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blizzz
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

Thanks for reading and pointing out the mistakes! Maybe I was a bit too eager to link to it :oops:

Do you link to that zip file anywhere on your website? Or should I just hotlink to the file / host it on my server?
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Fudoh »

Do you link to that zip file anywhere on your website?
I don't think so, but it's been lying there since I created it. It's just a few KB, so I won't move it either.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by NightSprinter »

Not sure if this is relevant, but if we are talking abouylt AVISynth, scanlines can be added in post-processing through a filter. I found a scanline filter plugin for AVISynth that can produce rather nice results. The filter strength is adjustable (0=like a BVM, 100=no scanlines), and is better added after any other type of processing.

There are downsides to it. The filter requires either RGB or YV12 colorspace to appear without a green tinge (like if you hook up component to an RGB display). The effect seems to not show up so well on YouTube. I'll be back at my desktop in an hour, and link to a recording I made of Super R-Type in s-video as an example.

[Edit] Here is the example I mentioned. Image
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

There's also a crt filter for AviSynth that adds more than just scanlines. But I'm not sure where you would actually want to use that. I don't think that it would work on internet platforms because of the compression and different scaling on the user side.

Edit: I added a CRT vs emulator comparison using the crt filter.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

I've corrected several mistakes and added a few more pictures and a section about dithering on CRTs. Plus overall a few minor touch-ups. This is now the 1.0 version of the site :mrgreen:

Hope that the information can be useful for some people :)
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Sixfortyfive »

Some pretty good info in here. I hadn't considered the method shown to correct the horizontal sampling in captured footage. I'm definitely going to try that out sometime.

For the section on capture cards, I'm wondering if it's even worthwhile to include a short (or even long) list of example capture devices. So many words would have to be dedicated to a very large range of devices in order to do that properly. Instead of doing that (or, if you prefer, as a supplement to that), why not list important qualities to look for in a capture card? Some examples:
  • PC interface (PCI, USB2, USB3) and the pros and cons of each
  • video connections supported (HDMI, component, VGA, etc.)
  • max supported res (can it actually do 1080p60?)
  • proper 240p support (rare in HD capture devices)
  • ability to handle unusual framerates
  • ability to handle resolution changes on the fly
  • ability to record uncompressed video vs. forced H264 capture
  • chroma subsampling format
  • video/audio delay in capture preview (generally not an issue in internal/USB3 cards; can vary wildly in USB2 cards)
  • DirectShow compatibility (ease of integration with third-party video capture and post-processing software)
  • DVR functionality, ability to capture when a PC is not even present, rewind / instant replay functionality, etc.
  • passthrough and transcoding functionality (The Avermedia LGP is a darling of the fighting game community for this reason. A PS3 can be connected to the LGP via component to bypass HDCP, then transcoded to HDMI for display on a tournament monitor with no lag added in the process.)
Anyway, here's some thoughts I had on various parts while reading through it:
All of the newer consoles since the PS2 and Gamecube era use 480i for 99% of the games, but also some of the older games used 480i in parts or for the whole game.
I think this sentence should be a little more clear in that you're specifically talking about only the PS2 generation when you say that the vast majority of "newer" games run in 480i.
Some games gained a few milliseconds processing time by decreasing the vertical size of the picture.
Could you clarify this?
Modern consoles output at 720p or 1080p with 30 to 60 frames per second.
Technically, the consoles themselves all output at 60hz. Whether the games actually draw a new picture on every cycle is a matter of whether they can keep up, as it has been for decades.

Also: I would link to Fudoh's XRGB cross-comparison instead of his standalone Framemeister review. It's more current, corrects some minor errors that were in the mini's review, and gives a good idea of some of the metrics a consumer should use when deciding on an upscaler. I'm a little irritated that the Framemeister seems to be the end-all, be-all recommendation to people just getting into RGB equipment. IMO, not enough effort is spent to inform people about what it actually does better or worse than other devices in its field, which brings me to...
The Framemeister adds a small delay to the signal, around 25ms. If you have a very slow TV this might be a problem, but even on an average TV with 30ms input lag it won't matter.
This is some very strong language... Forgive me for standing on a soapbox for a moment, but I have a very, very hard time putting down money on any kind of gaming setup that has more than 1 total frame of lag. I'd have a really hard time pairing a Framemeister with even the fastest LCD monitors, let alone average HDTVs. This is the main reason why I never once considered buying one over an XRGB-3. A minimum of 2 frames of lag in a best-case scenario is something I expect out of generic $50 boxes from China, not $300+ high-end equipment designed specifically for gamers.
To use the full potential of this card for retro gaming you need a way to connect the SCART RGB output of the consoles to the DVI-I input of the capture card. The RGB signal of consoles uses composite video as sync information. But to capture RGB you need a clean sync signal that is stripped of the composite video.
Is it really the sync "cleaning" that's the important part for this, or is it the separation into horizontal and vertical sync? Or both? Just curious.
To record your gameplay you should use a lossless codec like Lagarith or the highly optimized H264 encoder x264vfw.
Another viable solution is to just record completely uncompressed video with no compression codec at all. You might need a decent external HDD array to do so for 1080p60 video, but it's possible to tweak some programs like VirtualDub so that they're optimized for this. (IIRC, vdub can be configured to eliminate some of the overhead that normally occurs in the Windows file-writing process.) This uses virtually no CPU resources at all and ensures no encoding errors, at the obvious expense of using more disk resources instead. Worth considering depending on what the bottleneck in your particular capture PC happens to be.
This procedure can be done with video edition programs like VirtualDub or picture editing programs like Photoshop.
typo
x264 should be set to the Superfast or Ultrafast preset. This doesn't lower the quality of the encodes, but makes it possible to record on mid-range CPUs in real time.
This generally doesn't lower the quality of the encodes when bitrate isn't a factor (i.e. when you're just recording locally to your HDD). It is a big factor for livestreaming, though. An x264 stream at Ultrafast/1Mbps is going to take a noticeable hit in quality when compared to a stream at Medium/1Mbps, so I think this section should be clarified. Generally, when both CPU usage and bitrate are factors, the x264 encoder should be set to the slowest (most-thorough) encoding setting that doesn't cause a noticeable hit in performance (such as frame drops).
By setting the keyint setting to something low like 10 you can increase the performance in video edition software at the cost of slightly bigger file sizes.
typo
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blizzz
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

Sixfortyfive wrote:Some pretty good info in here.
Thanks for reading and taking your time to write feedback.
I hadn't considered the method shown to correct the horizontal sampling in captured footage. I'm definitely going to try that out sometime.
You have to thank Fudoh for this one. I've used it in the past when I still had a Nintendo news & review site, but I had completely forgotten about it until he mentioned it again. I was really surprised how well it turns out in Photoshop. It doesn't seem to work that well in vdub, even though the nearest neighbor algorithm should do the same thing.
For the section on capture cards, I'm wondering if it's even worthwhile to include a short (or even long) list of example capture devices. So many words would have to be dedicated to a very large range of devices in order to do that properly. Instead of doing that (or, if you prefer, as a supplement to that), why not list important qualities to look for in a capture card? Some examples:
A list of features to look for is a nice idea. I'll think about how I can add this without blowing the section up too much. I don't want to remove the example devices as these are generally the ones that newcomers will find first and I think it's good to spend some words on them.
All of the newer consoles since the PS2 and Gamecube era use 480i for 99% of the games, but also some of the older games used 480i in parts or for the whole game.
I think this sentence should be a little more clear in that you're specifically talking about only the PS2 generation when you say that the vast majority of "newer" games run in 480i.
I though the same but then I figured that newer consoles still use 480i when you connect them to an SD CRT and didn't change it. I'll make it more clear what I meant with that.
Some games gained a few milliseconds processing time by decreasing the vertical size of the picture.
Could you clarify this?
I have to admit that I'm no expert in this. As you might have noticed the vertical size of 240p games varies or in other words the size of the black bars on the top and bottom. The black bars come from the VBLANK and the NES for example can only access the PPU memory range in this time, to update tile maps etc. So by increasing the VBLANK time they get slightly more time to work on the next picture. It is my understanding that it is the same on the SNES ("All video memory can be accessed only during V-Blank, or Forced Blank." source) and maybe other 240p consoles.
Modern consoles output at 720p or 1080p with 30 to 60 frames per second.
Technically, the consoles themselves all output at 60hz. Whether the games actually draw a new picture on every cycle is a matter of whether they can keep up, as it has been for decades.
Yes, this should be changed to clear up misunderstanding with capture cards that can capture 1080p30 but not 1080p60.
I have a very, very hard time putting down money on any kind of gaming setup that has more than 1 total frame of lag. I'd have a really hard time pairing a Framemeister with even the fastest LCD monitors, let alone average HDTVs. This is the main reason why I never once considered buying one over an XRGB-3. A minimum of 2 frames of lag in a best-case scenario is something I expect out of generic $50 boxes from China, not $300+ high-end equipment designed specifically for gamers.
Valid point. The focus of the site is on capturing however and you can use a splitter before the Framemeister if you need zero delay. Also I have not heard any complaint from "casual" people about the delay on the Framemeister. Even that recent Youtube review mentions that there is virtually no delay. I will add a bit of information about the XRGB-3 to the site though.
To use the full potential of this card for retro gaming you need a way to connect the SCART RGB output of the consoles to the DVI-I input of the capture card. The RGB signal of consoles uses composite video as sync information. But to capture RGB you need a clean sync signal that is stripped of the composite video.
Is it really the sync "cleaning" that's the important part for this, or is it the separation into horizontal and vertical sync? Or both? Just curious.
I would need some help with this. From my understanding you can connect a console directly to the SC-500N1 with composite sync. I've read it on this forum, but I haven't tested it myself. Also I'm not sure what the Sync Strike actually does. Some people say that it generates HV sync. But is that true? The LM1881's specsheet only mentions composite sync / vertical sync output. How would it create horizontal sync?

To record your gameplay you should use a lossless codec like Lagarith or the highly optimized H264 encoder x264vfw.
Another viable solution is to just record completely uncompressed video with no compression codec at all.
Not sure where it is actually viable, but I will add some more info about the CPU power / storage bandwidth trade-off.
x264 should be set to the Superfast or Ultrafast preset. This doesn't lower the quality of the encodes, but makes it possible to record on mid-range CPUs in real time.
This generally doesn't lower the quality of the encodes when bitrate isn't a factor (i.e. when you're just recording locally to your HDD).
Yes, I should clarify that this applies only when you use the CRF setting.
edition software
I have no idea how that is even still in the text. I remember that I corrected it... lol

Also thanks again for taking your time with the site. I wasn't sure if people would actually read it and it's nice to get some feedback. I also saw some positive reactions on twitter, even though nobody ever clicked on the link that I posted myself. lol
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Fudoh »

I was really surprised how well it turns out in Photoshop. It doesn't seem to work that well in vdub, even though the nearest neighbor algorithm should do the same thing.
there's still the possibility to save a video as a image sequence and have Photoshop run it's filter on the images through a batch process..... Still very advanced and not for everybody :mrgreen:
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by NightSprinter »

blizz: the CRT filter for AVISynth you've pointed me seems to not work too terribly well. Many times, it errors out with an "unhandled C++ exception" at two lines in the avsi script, also seems to easily cause my computer to run out of memory. On top of that, I get numerous C++ errors in regards to the script. I'll sign up on the forums you linked to and ask about the issues there, but for now this filter is just below what I can consider even remotely "useful".. Even my Core i7 920 with 6GB of memory can't really handle it at all.. I appreciate the suggestion, though.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

The filter only takes original resolution input, like 256x224 or 320x224. It works fine on my PC with AviSynth 2.6, but you need some other plugins to use it. I also only applied it to an image sequence and not a video. It's too slow to encode a video, but it looks quite nice for single screenshots.
Spoiler
Image
Edit: I wonder if you could somehow use HLSL shaders like crt-royale in AviSynth.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Thomago »

Just logged in to say: This looks astonishing!
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by BuckoA51 »

videogameperfection.com, it's down atm?
My site was down for a bit due to a fault in a security plugin, sorry about that.
The NTSC SNES for example outputs at roughly 60.10Hz.
That's interesting, my SNES is more like bang on 60.00? It isn't a 1 chip though.

Edit - My mistake, seems the Extron RGB interface wasn't reporting it right, DVDO always says 60.10
This is some very strong language... Forgive me for standing on a soapbox for a moment, but I have a very, very hard time putting down money on any kind of gaming setup that has more than 1 total frame of lag.
XRGB3 isn't exactly the most easy to get working on modern TVs though. Even finding a VGA to Component transcoder is difficult. Chaining through another processor can produce good results but not always low lag, even on ABT scalers.
From my understanding you can connect a console directly to the SC-500N1 with composite sync.
I tried this recently with an Extron interface and it worked just fine. The interface was just in the chain to make the cabling easier, wasn't really doing anything. Separate H/V sync is definitely not needed.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by lettuce »

Great info blizzz!.

Gave x264vfw ago with AmaRec but the video always seems to lag behind the audio on the output file, any ideas?
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

Did you record in lossless mode? That might just be your media player then because of the huge data rate. Does it still lag when you record it with a higher crf? For recording x264 should be even less taxing on your CPU than Lagarith.

Thrill did some comparisons on his blog (thethrillness.com) a while ago. 720p test, 1080p test
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by lettuce »

blizzz wrote:Did you record in lossless mode? That might just be your media player then because of the huge data rate. Does it still lag when you record it with a higher crf? For recording x264 should be even less taxing on your CPU than Lagarith.

Thrill did some comparisons on his blog (thethrillness.com) a while ago. 720p test, 1080p test
It wasnt lossless, i had the crf set to 16
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by bobrocks95 »

Just a quick question I'd like to throw out there that's somewhat related: is the cross-hatching effect on PS1 games a form of dithering as well? It's a bit different than the vertical stripes Genesis games had, so I'm not 100% sure. Does the PS1 have an incredibly low color count compared to say the N64? It's all over the PS1 and I don't remember seeing it much on the N64.

EDIT: Wikipedia says the PS1 and N64 both had 24-bit color, which means there definitely weren't any color limitations going on (if accurate). Maybe there was a restriction on the number of concurrent colors being used?
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Xan »

I doubt many PS1 games used 24-bit color depth, especially for 3D graphics. Dithering was very prevalent on the system, even on many 2D games. The actual technical explanation is a bit complicated, but you can read about the various CLUT modes here: http://psx.rules.org/gpu.txt
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by bobrocks95 »

Cool, technical explanations are what I was looking for. I'm guessing the 15-bit color mode was most widely used, with the 8 or 4-bit modes leading to the obvious dithering. In FFIX whenever you enter a battle or go to the world map it's probably switching to 4-bit or 8-bit color to reduce load on the system (even though battles still run fairly poorly) which makes the dithering very obvious. Thanks!
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by Xan »

It's actually still common in recent systems too, maybe not on whole frames, but certain aspects like popups in that jungle level in Killzone 3 where there is really quite crude dithering visible. On the PS1 I personally don't find it irritating, to me it's a likable quirk of the system like those swimming textures due to lack of perspective correction.

As for PS1 games without dithering, I'm fairly certain Alundra doesn't have it.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

lettuce, the Zero Latency option in x264vfw fixes the issue. There's also an option in Amarec to match the start timing of video and audio.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by lettuce »

blizzz wrote:lettuce, the Zero Latency option in x264vfw fixes the issue. There's also an option in Amarec to match the start timing of video and audio.
Perfect!!!

So is it best to leave the 'Profile' and 'Level' drop down windows on auto, i always though High 10 and 4.1 were recommended settings?
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

Those are just constraints. Unless you are encoding for a certain device it doesn't matter. If you want to play the files with a hardware decoder you should stick to safe levels, but for source files it's not important.

High 10 is for 10 bit encodes, which are only useful in rare cases from my tests. Stuff like anime gets better compression with the 10 bit version of x264, but normal movies work better with 8 bit.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by lettuce »

I know this isnt directly related to this thread but its to do with capturing.

I have the XCAPTURE-1 USB3 device and most of the time use AmaRec. In the Graph3 (Live) tab of AmaRec settings under the PC Internal Sound section, i have tried selecting CY3014 USB, Analog 01 Wavein as the audio device but get presented with this error message.....


return: HRESULT=80040217 (FAILED) No combination of intermediate filters could be found to make the connection.

code: moFilterDraph->Connect( mpConnectPinOut, mpConnectPinIn)

Any ideas why?
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by blizzz »

That error can usually be fixed by switching the driver setting from NTSC to PAL_B and back.
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Re: Pixel Perfection - An Introduction to RGB Retro Capture

Post by lettuce »

blizzz wrote:That error can usually be fixed by switching the driver setting from NTSC to PAL_B and back.
That didnt appear to work :cry:
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