R-Type is complete rubbish

[Plasmo]

I wouldn't compare Jazz to Metal and that's why I don't compare R-Type to League of Legends. But we all are comparing R-Type to modern shmups in the annual top 25 voting. If I take your argument seriously, we would need to ban R-Type for the top 25 list which would be nonsense (or have two seperate votings, 'old school' and 'modern' which, again, wouldn't make too much sense).

Way to mock people by twisting their own point, you know that's absolutely not what I mean.
You're the one willing to discriminate shmups to begin, that's the goal of your idiotic thread and your comment below is proof.
Be honest.

Oh hi there. Here's a hot chocolate. Now we all come down a bit, shall we?

You said you couldn't compare R-Type to modern shmups, but it's a fact that we all do vote for the top 25 shmups of all time. Sorry to bother you with facts.

You're from 'that' crowd shitting on everything that's not bullet hell. No need to hide it.

I seriously don't even know how to respond to this. Let's simply go with:

[Aleksei]

As a shmup expert

May I see your license to shmup?

I'm pretty sure that other people have to call you an expert, based on your works, before you can call yourself an expert in anything. Nobody has called you an expert here.

Oh hey guys, Ima shmup masta firing ma lazor.

[Xyga]

You said you couldn't compare R-Type to modern shmups, but it's a fact that we all do vote for the top 25 shmups of all time. Sorry to bother you with facts.

I said they're different but both are shmups. R-Type has its right to be in the top whatever its score is and if it ends up next to some Cave or Raizing or whatever I don't see any issue with that, but you do, sorry to bother you with facts again:

I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.

Face what ?

You're from 'that' crowd shitting on everything that's not bullet hell. No need to hide it.

I seriously don't even know how to respond to this. Let's simply go with:

Sorry for being mean earlier but you really make it appear like you think oldies = outdated = non-relevant, like you were part of that crowd.
If this thread really isn't meant to be taken seriously then please explain the 'rubbish'.

[Captain]

R-type is a great game.
R-type 2 is a good gme.
R-type 3 is a good game.
R-type Delta is a great game.


Annnd thats it. Anyone who claims that bullet hells are the "superior" shmups need to learn that one's opinions are not the same as the truth.

[Plasmo]

You said you couldn't compare R-Type to modern shmups, but it's a fact that we all do vote for the top 25 shmups of all time. Sorry to bother you with facts.

I said they're different but both are shmups. R-Type has its right to be in the top whatever its score is and if it ends up next to some Cave or Raizing or whatever I don't see any issue with that, but you do

You made an analogy with different music genres which isn't fitting at all, since R-Type and SDOJ can and should be compared with each other. The point of this topic is made clear in the opening post: Do we love R-Type simply because of nostalgia or because the game really is that good and can hold up with modern shmups even under today's standards.

To me it's surprising to see only R-Type as a game from the '80s in the top 25. I would've expected either more or none at all.

You're from 'that' crowd shitting on everything that's not bullet hell. No need to hide it.

I seriously don't even know how to respond to this. Let's simply go with:

Sorry for being mean earlier but you really make it appear like you think oldies = outdated = non-relevant, like you were part of that crowd.
If this thread really isn't meant to be taken seriously then please explain the 'rubbish'.

This topic is meant to be taken seriously, but again, read the opening post. With 'rubbish' I just wanted to have a provocative topic title. Thinking about it, it might not have been the best idea seeing your reaction.

[jepjepjep]

This is an interesting topic. R-Type was influential in the genre without a doubt. I think nostalgia plays a big factor, but R-Type is a complete package: good graphics, music, and interesting gameplay.

I think a big distinction needs to be made that it's a checkpoint game. In fact, it's the only checkpoint game that made it onto the Top25 list! Is it any more of a memorizer than the Toaplan checkpoint games, Gradius games, etc.? Modern memorizers like Saidaioujou, Futari Ultra, etc., allow you to progress even after death, so even though they're harder, they seem less punishing.

It probably doesn't make much sense to think about it too much other than, is it fun? Is it fun to play checkpoint/pattern games these days? If so, how does R-Type compare? I can think of harder memorizers like Tatsujin Oh, Same!Same!Same!, Gradius III. What makes these games so good/or bad. Personally, I think it all comes down to a cohesive experience (combination of graphics, music, atmosphere, and interesting game mechanics), in which R-Type does really well.

[Eaglet]

I can only speak for myself but what makes me invest in a game is whether the mechanics are deep and interesting or not.
A great presentation makes me not hate myself after putting x amount of hours in it.

Games like R-Type (the old school kind) generally have one (1) interesting mechanic that the entire game is built around. All other depth experienced is self-simulated (stuff like no-pod runs in R-Type etc.) and not part of the game design.
More complex games feature a multitude of mechanics and factors to take into equation giving much more depth.
That's why a game like Garegga is pretty much perfect for me. There are so fuckin' many little things to optimise. Add to that a pretty significant randomness factor and you've got a lot of different types of situations to handle. This is an experience you cannot get from a pure memorizer.
And before everybody gives me the tired old "playing for score is always memorixation herpa derpa" trope; that is only true up to a point.
Garegga for an example has so much randomness in it (birds, Mad Balls and BH2) that just isn't comparable to a straight memo like R-Type.
You have to adapt, practice for, and handle many more and different kinds of unpredictable situations in a game that is not a straight memo.

So while i won't say that R-Type sucks (even though i myself do not enjoy playing it), it is undoubtedly a much more shallow game than some of its' more modern counterparts.

[Xyga]

You made an analogy with different music genres which isn't fitting at all, since R-Type and SDOJ can and should be compared with each other.

Well I don't see at all why it's not a fitting analogy. Whatever.

The point of this topic is made clear in the opening post: Do we love R-Type simply because of nostalgia or because the game really is that good and can hold up with modern shmups even under today's standards.

Well that part is new, what are today's standards ?

Looking at both games I can tell R-Type offers incredible level design, inspired pixel art graphics, unique gameplay, memorable tunes and a big challenge.
SDOJ has got great scoring mechanics, state-of-the-art bullet hell schemes, different modes, slick low-res 2D graphics, and a big challenge as well.

SDOJ's features are those of 'modern' shmups (though not all shmups produced in recent years are scoring-based bullet hells) but are we compelled to value those more than the 'ancient' ones ?

Personally I understand the feeling of 'emptiness' some feel while playing some of Cave's stuff, particularity those of the Ikeda 'school' as I find the 'Yagawa's to be overall more involved, more complete shmup universes, retaining some of the classic shmups features that were lost during the bullet hell rush.

Frankly speaking I can enjoy playing Thunder Force IV, Raystorm, or Hana Taka Daka as much as any 'modern' bullet hell.

With 'rubbish' I just wanted to have a provocative topic title. Thinking about it, it might not have been the best idea seeing your reaction.

Okay let's forget about it.

[chum]

i know when it comes to jazz i for sure prefer free jazz and avant-garde jazz to say swing or bebop

jazz/metal is nonsense since they're completely different genres, r-type can be compared with any other stg since at the core they are the same

nostalgia is powerful but i don't think it's just that. some people just has tastes for certain types of gameplay or aesthetics. ppl have different values

i can't stand the first r-type but i'd be sad if games like it didn't receive any love on this site. balance is the key.

[nasty_wolverine]

Personally I understand the feeling of 'emptiness' some feel while playing some of Cave's stuff, particularity those of the Ikeda 'school' as I find the 'Yagawa's to be overall more involved, more complete shmup universes, retaining some of the classic shmups features that were lost during the bullet hell rush.

exceptions being esprade and ketsui. Somehow they dont feel empty.

[Squire Grooktook]

I didn't exactly "grow up" with R-Type, but I still think it's excellent.

Nice pacing, clever bosses, fun weapon variety, solid stage designs. It may not have as much overwhelming scoring depth as a Cave game, but as a survival game it never fails to be entertaining.

Darius and Gradius are better though.

[Mister Midnight]

R-Type final on PS1 is the best one, and a great game on its own

Dude what are you smoking? Everything is wrong with that statement.
- R-Type Final was on PS2
- R-Type Final was terrible

Aside from that, R-Type Delta on the PS1 was great, probably the best R-Type game. It had everything, the memorizing, the atmosphere, the stage obstacles, great bosses, amazing music. Thats how you make a great game.

Sorry! I ment ps2 for R type final. Final is one of the best horizontals I played:
Dramatic music, 100 ships to play with, awsome weapons.
I love it! And I do smoke good stuff thank you!

[NAVVARR]

I played R-type in the Arcades when it first came out - completed it, then along came R-type 2 in the arcade and again, I played it through til I beat it.

It remains one of the true classic Shmups- a complete masterpiece- even today, it still cuts it- it's in a class of its own, ahead of any new Horizontal Shmups being released today.


For me, I'd love to see a new set of levels done in the original style of the classic r-type with the original weapons and playability.


Delta came close, but the original for me is still the best.

[ciox]

Nice pacing, clever bosses, fun weapon variety, solid stage designs. It may not have as much overwhelming scoring depth as a Cave game, but as a survival game it never fails to be entertaining.

Darius and Gradius are better though.

I don't see it, to me they're all pretty evenly matched, Darius has slightly more frantic levels early on, but most of its bosses are very basic and uninspired compared to R-Type, and if that isn't the case then how come Dobkeratops shows up in Darius II.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEEY0Q8m_-Q#t=5m

[Special World]

Unpopular opinion: I think Super R-Type is pretty fun?

I don't know what the story is with Super R-Type, if it's really just a shoddy port of R-Type 2 or what. But having played only R-Type (Arc), Super R-Type (SNES), and R-Type 3 (SNES), I think Super is my favorite. I've only played the original briefly in MAME, but to me it felt a little bit too slow, whereas Super makes up for that by letting you charge up your shot in-between enemy waves. And R-Type 3 might have cooler ship options, but it's waaaaaay too strict with telling you where to be at any given time. Super R-Type feels a lot more open-ended, and the charge-up mechanic makes it feel more satisfying on a moment-to-moment level, imo. I'd like to play the original again someday to compare. I don't enjoy emulating games — are there any really good ports that don't cost a million dollars?

Also, I really loved R-Type Final back in the day, but I played it again a few years ago and it was just terrible. A slow, plodding mess of a game.

[Kollision]

Final is one of the best horizontals I played:
Dramatic music

imo it's more like intergalactic burial music
booooooring

[CStarFlare]

R-Type was obsoleted by G-Type.

[Special World]

Okay, this topic has gotten me interested in trying the original again. Is there a solid port available on any more recent consoles? Maybe a version of R-Types on PSN, or something good on Wii Virtual Console? I don't really know what versions are considered good and which are considered garbage, and I'd rather not emulate the game if there's an accessible and affordable option available.

[Ghegs]

I've only played the original briefly in MAME, but to me it felt a little bit too slow, whereas Super makes up for that by letting you charge up your shot in-between enemy waves.

Not sure what you mean here, every R-Type game has a charge shot.

I'd like to play the original again someday to compare. I don't enjoy emulating games — are there any really good ports that don't cost a million dollars?

R-Types on PS1 has the two first games, is quite excellent and not too expensive. R-Type Dimensions on 360's Live Arcade and PS3's PSN is even cheaper but not quite as good. Still perfectly playable, but you can't reconfigure controls and there are some small problems here and there.

[Special World]

Hmmm... I was thinking of getting R-Types and R-Type Delta on PSN, but apparently Sony took them down :\

Any more info on what's wrong with Dimensions — Surely nothing that makes a significant impact on gameplay or overall enjoyment unless you've memorized how each level works? And about not being able to set the controls... is there a setting that caters to stick players? Or are you basically relegated to using the controller?

Also, the Wii Virtual Console still has the Turbografx-16 version of R-Type up. The complete TG-16 version is supposed to be a very solid console version of the original, right?

[mehguy]

i'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this but...

Gradius is complete rubbish.

[nasty_wolverine]

Gradius is complete rubbish.

except Gradius Gaiden. That one is GOD TIER.

[Lilium]

If you grow up with CAVE and Touhou shmups, could you still enjoy R-Type? Will R-Type be voted a top 25 game in a future poll with all voters being born after 1995? Is R-Type a timeless classic or merely a nostalgic relict? How does R-Type hold up to SDOJ?

Discuss!

I say no. The way I appreciate most of my shmupping as one who grew up and is still growing up on a blend of Cave and Touhou shmupping. Most of the fun for me comes in the dodging of bullets. The memorization has always been like basic groundwork you have to get down before you can get to the fun part which for me is look at screen and anticipate bullets, figure out way through those bullets and execute it.

Older games like Rtype for example (I've only tried one R-type game, dunno exactly which) seemed to have almost all of the challenge stem from the memorization though and without much rewarding frenetic action waiting for you. To make matters worse, iirc it was about gathering all sorts of weapons but then when you die you lose everything at which point you're irreperably screwed.

Its not that memorizers don't have their place, but as one who grew up on Cave and Touhou, R-type ain't it. Psikyo's later stuff like Gunbird 2, Dragon Blaze and Strikers 1945 II/III is really good stuff and impossible to play without thorough memorization. But it's memorization that feels rewarding as you through practice enable yourself to kill impossible looking bosses and the amazing stage length is something many shmups could hope to replicate. The stages ain't short, just without all the unnecessary fat. Which to me is a far better recipe for a good memorizer than the R-type formula.

tl;dr

newkid grown up on a diet of semi-modern stuff only says R-type blows

[Zerst]

Is this the "Play R-Type Delta" thread, because it is now.

[mastermx]

i'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this but...

Gradius is complete rubbish.

How. Dare. You.

You take that back good sir. Take it back right now!

[trap15]

Is this the "Play R-Type Delta" thread, because it is now.

[Special World]

started playing R-Type for TG-16

level 2 is already pissing me off

[Obiwanshinobi]

As someone who didn't play R-Type (neither did I think much of the genre) before Gradius V, I found the former to be an excellent side-scrolling shmup.
Nowadays I'd sooner sit down to play Eliminate Down than the original R-Type, but that's more to do with my gaming habits of today (I hardly play games anymore and Eliminate Down's number of continues suits my current persistence just fine).

[system11]

How does R-Type hold up to SDOJ?

Bad choice, SDOJ is pretty weak.

R-Type is a game design masterclass. The pace is much slower than modern games, that doesn't make it worse - it makes it different. The level design is still clever, the graphics are still well drawn, the music is still pretty cool.

A discussion I saw on IRC made me think recently. There's a small group of players who have only grown up knowing modern games. To me, a lot of the modern games look very much the same, often using similar engines, while these new players consider each radically different due to what I see as minor differences. It's like a gaming version of tunnel vision, or a music fan who can only accept a single narrow genre. Those guys have a big void in their knowledge and experience and it leads to only caring about shades of blue instead of considering the whole spectrum.

When you approach things with a more open mind, you can find more fun, and ultimately you can start to appreciate other qualities in games.

Then you'll understand why R-Type was such a hit and has endured as a popular title.

Side note - if you've ever played a Cave game for score, you'll want to stop calling R-Type a memorizer. Seriously.

[tigen]

Side note - if you've ever played a Cave game for score, you'll want to stop calling R-Type a memorizer. Seriously.

Seriously. Or even not for score. (Look at the people discussing Ketsui pattern survival strategies in, uh, the other long thread.)