Questions that do not deserve a thread

[BazookaBen]

yes, or in case of a Wii - you should be able to flash the hardware, so RGBs out is supported natively.

Cool, I didn't know about that. Will probably go that route to get the cleanest signal.

After looking that soft mod up, apparently there is some software that can force the Wii to output 240p, at least with emulated games? Probably wouldn't work with Mega Man 9 since it's a WiiWare title but it may be worth a shot.

EDIT: Nevermind, apparently that's only for retroarch.

[Kilmaattikahn]

Are there any cheap, lag-free devices that will letterbox the 720p60 output of a HDFury Gamer Edition into 1280x960 60Hz so that correct aspect ratio of the PS3 signal is preserved when displayed on a 4:3 CRT monitor?
Manually adjusting the picture with the display controls results in either loss of information on the sides or a vertically stretched image.

[Unseen]

Are there any cheap, lag-free devices that will letterbox the 720p60 output of a HDFury Gamer Edition into 1280x960 60Hz so that correct aspect ratio of the PS3 signal is preserved when displayed on a 4:3 CRT monitor?

Such a device cannot be lag-free.

Since you obviously don't want to change the frame rate, a higher number of video lines on the output means that you need to output more lines in the same time which in turn means that the pixel rate at the output is higher than at the input. This implies that you need to temporarily store at least part of the incoming picture before you start to output it into the active region of the output picture, otherwise you would run out of pixels to display along the way. Therefore such a device cannot be lag-free - a simple implementation would have a full frame of lag (store a frame, output it at the higher rate), a very specialized implementation could probably reduce this to a worst-case lag of 1/3 frame or so.

[nasty_wolverine]

So we got a new TV at home. Its a Sony 40 inch LED with Full HD. It only supports composite, component and HDMI. Now i want to know the best way to get video onto it for the devices I am planning to connect.

Laptop: has only VGA out. what kind of converter do i need so i can get 1080p out without too much lag.
PS2: currently I have the composite cable. Will component cable substantially improve image quality? or should i get upscaler?
Xbox360: getting the HDMI cable. But will i need a upscaler or something?

I am really new to all this modern HD TV display technology stuff. I am more comfortable dealing with computer monitors or old CRT's.
On the upside, the old 29" CRT is going for permanent tate.

[Xyga]

Are there any cheap, lag-free devices that will letterbox the 720p60 output of a HDFury Gamer Edition into 1280x960 60Hz so that correct aspect ratio of the PS3 signal is preserved when displayed on a 4:3 CRT monitor?

Such a device cannot be lag-free.

Since you obviously don't want to change the frame rate, a higher number of video lines on the output means that you need to output more lines in the same time which in turn means that the pixel rate at the output is higher than at the input. This implies that you need to temporarily store at least part of the incoming picture before you start to output it into the active region of the output picture, otherwise you would run out of pixels to display along the way. Therefore such a device cannot be lag-free - a simple implementation would have a full frame of lag (store a frame, output it at the higher rate), a very specialized implementation could probably reduce this to a worst-case lag of 1/3 frame or so.

Can't the DVDO iScan VP machines do this ? Mine (I own three) can letterbox whatever input I want within many output resolutions (I think 960p is one of them) in just 6ms.

...I'll go check that right now, I own a 4:3 1600x1200 lcd, so at least I can tell you if it works for it.

EDIT: Confirmed. Just did it with a DVDO VP30. You can input 760p@60Hz in VGA or HDMI, your choice, and output it letterboxed inside whatever output window you want. Lag of 6ms also confirmed.
Pics:
http://i61.tinypic.com/5jxjjq.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/qxqfb4.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/6xvl35.jpg
Only annoying thing is that a VP30 is not exactly cheap, also it doesn't have any analogue audio output (only digital).

[Xyga]

Laptop: has only VGA out. what kind of converter do i need so i can get 1080p out without too much lag.

You should let the laptop do the scaling and buy a transcoder.
VGA to Component (lagless), or VGA to HDMI (not sure if lagless).

PS2: currently I have the composite cable. Will component cable substantially improve image quality? or should i get upscaler?

The component cable will drastically improve quality.
Since you own a Sony I doubt you would need a scaler because thos usually already have a great built-in scaler.
What's you Sony model by the way ?

Xbox360: getting the HDMI cable. But will i need a upscaler or something?

No unless you're obsessed by specific picture quality details.

[nasty_wolverine]

VGA to Component (lagless), or VGA to HDMI (not sure if lagless).

1080p60 over component is possible? Will the laptop let me set the resolution? I am sorry, i am a noob at this.

What's you Sony model by the way ?

http://www.sony.co.in/product/klv-40r482b this one. After weighing the pros/cons this was the only one that won the price/features war.

[Xyga]

1080p60 over component is possible? Will the laptop let me set the resolution?

Mmh, good question maybe this solution stops at 1080i indeed, so you would be limited to 720p/1080i.
For instance here's a transcoder I use that is limited to that:
http://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/9A60A (read the 'best of both worlds' pdf found on this page, it's interesting)
I don't know your laptop, if it's got an AMD, nVidia or Intel Graphics chipset, but either 720p or 1080p are already registered resolutions and will become available after you connect to the TV, either you should be able to force those using some dedicated tweaking software like ATI Tray Tools, NVTray, or whatever for Intel.
Maybe that would work better in conjunction with a VGA to HDMI transcoder/converter, but I don't know if those usually need to double as scalers or not to achieve 1080p. If they do then quality and lag will vary between models.
If a simple transcoder can't do it in the end, then you can choose to live with 720p, or go the 'scaler' way.
Remember Fudoh will publish a 'transcoder' article sometime probably before the end of the year !

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Is the Crescendo Systems RTC2220 still the best option for transcoding YPbPr to RGBHV?

[nasty_wolverine]

Mmh, good question maybe this solution stops at 1080i indeed, so you would be limited to 720p/1080i.
For instance here's a transcoder I use that is limited to that:
http://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/9A60A (read the 'best of both worlds' pdf found on this page, it's interesting)
I don't know your laptop, if it's got an AMD, nVidia or Intel Graphics chipset, but either 720p or 1080p are already registered resolutions and will become available after you connect to the TV, either you should be able to force those using some dedicated tweaking software like ATI Tray Tools, NVTray, or whatever for Intel.
Maybe that would work better in conjunction with a VGA to HDMI transcoder/converter, but I don't know if those usually need to double as scalers or not to achieve 1080p. If they do then quality and lag will vary between models.
If a simple transcoder can't do it in the end, then you can choose to live with 720p, or go the 'scaler' way.
Remember Fudoh will publish a 'transcoder' article sometime probably before the end of the year !

Its a laptop with intel chipset. i can currently force it to run at 1600x900, so i am guessing 1080p should be possible. from what i read i will be needing a transcoder that translates the RGB signal in the VGA output to Y/Pb/Pr. But have no clue as to what to look for.

[Xyga]

from what i read i will be needing a transcoder that translates the RGB signal in the VGA output to Y/Pb/Pr. But have no clue as to what to look for.

Well you will need a device like the one from that link I gave you, it's a VGA>Y/Pb/Pr transcoder. ^^

Anyway as I said I'm not sure it's okay for 1080p, you may need a VGA>HDMI transcoder instead, and probably one that does scale to 1080p.

Wait for Fudoh's article if you want to learn more.

[nasty_wolverine]

Wait for Fudoh's article if you want to learn more.

will patiently wait.

we need a fudoh appreciation thread.

[Fudoh]

1080p through component isn't a problem in general - why should it when VGA is fine up to UXGA as well. The problem is on the other hand that 1080p wasn't included in the component specs for the longest time, so not too many sets (or sources) support it.

With transcoders and converters you're also running into bandwith problems. Many of them are very old and were just geared towards HD specs back then (720p and 1080i). 1080p doubles the bandwith upon a 1080i signal and if the bandwith of the transcoder isn't up to it, it will blur the image.

I didn't feel the need for 1080p conversion (or transcoding) yet. Last gen was 720p for most part anyway and now you got native HDMI whereever you need it.

In my experience 1080p RGBHV/VGA through a dedicated VGA to HDMI transcoder is USUALLY fine (if you got a notebook or something like it that only supports analogue output). @nasty_wolverine: I don't see why you want to transcode VGA to component for your PC when VGA to HDMI is just fine. The latter is much cheaper and easier to accomplish.

[Xyga]

I don't see why you want to transcode VGA to component for your PC when VGA to HDMI is just fine. The latter is much cheaper and easier to accomplish.

That's it, I had a memory you mentioned that before but I couldn't find the post(s). Don't the usual converters generate a bit of lag though ?

[Fudoh]

Don't the usual converters generate a bit of lag though

the cheap ones don't. They just use line buffers, so nothing else is buffered (hence no lag). Once you get a converter with scaling capabilities, lag is always a possibility.

[Kilmaattikahn]

EDIT: Confirmed. Just did it with a DVDO VP30. You can input 760p@60Hz in VGA or HDMI, your choice, and output it letterboxed inside whatever output window you want. Lag of 6ms also confirmed.
Only annoying thing is that a VP30 is not exactly cheap, also it doesn't have any analogue audio output (only digital).

Thanks, I could live with such minimal lag and lack of audio output is of no concern since the HDFury Gamer also has none, but I was really hoping for a simpler solution than a fully fledged videoprocessor.

I asked about a PS3 720p HDMI >HDfury VGA out > letterbox device > CRT solution but a PS3 HDMI > letterbox HDMI out> HDFury > CRT would also be fine as long as HDCP doesn't prevent this (I use the PS3 for both video and gaming). Anyone know of alternatives to the DVDO?

[Xyga]

Anyone know of alternatives to the DVDO?

I don't...
As described by Unseen it's a complicated process, you can't expect a device to do that sort of gymnastics for cheap... or maybe it can be cheap, but with horrible picture quality and/or lots of lag.

[nasty_wolverine]

@nasty_wolverine: I don't see why you want to transcode VGA to component for your PC when VGA to HDMI is just fine. The latter is much cheaper and easier to accomplish.

which one should i pick?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1080P-Audio-VGA ... 43ce613548

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1080P-Audio-VGA ... 3a977d0f19

[Kilmaattikahn]

Anyone know of alternatives to the DVDO?

I don't...
As described by Unseen it's a complicated process, you can't expect a device to do that sort of gymnastics for cheap... or maybe it can be cheap, but with horrible picture quality and/or lots of lag.

Bummer, stretched picture it is then. Thanks for helping!

[Unseen]

As described by Unseen it's a complicated process, you can't expect a device to do that sort of gymnastics for cheap... or maybe it can be cheap, but with horrible picture quality and/or lots of lag.

Welllll... it's not _that_ complicated, it's basically just what a video scaler does. My explanation was only intended to show that such a device cannot be lag-free. If I had this particular problem I would probably grab the Gefen HD Mate I have in storage(*) somewhere and try to use that - I think it only supports 1280x1024 and not 1280x960, but it should at least be less "deformed" than 1280x720 blown up to full 4:3. Other scalers that can accept VGA or HDMI and output VGA(**) or HDMI (moving the HD Fury to the scaler output) while letterboxing the signal would of course work too, the DVDO devices are just a well-known example.

(*) Yes, it's not very good - but I got it really cheap and it has occasionally been useful
(**) I'm assuming VGA output is what is wanted here because the PS3 could output component video itself without using an HD Fury

[Sixfortyfive]

Any particular recommendations for a 4-way component switch? Planning to grab this unless my money would be better spent elsewhere.

EDIT: And I don't suppose it's possible to find a quality JP-21 switch these days without scouring YJA forever and expecting to throw down a lot of cash, right? The only one I even know about is the SELECTY21.

[CkRtech]

Any particular recommendations for a 4-way component switch? Planning to grab this unless my money would be better spent elsewhere.

I picked up this one from Audio Authority in the mid-00s: http://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/1154a1. That price is WAY off from what I paid.

I'd definitely recommend it, but you might have better luck purchasing something newer. This one is auto switching, so it will select the appropriate input upon power-up. The button on the front can also be used to manually select an input. Rated for up to 1080i. I think I had a DVD player, Gamecube, PS2, and Xbox on it at the time, so 1080i was fine.

[Xyga]

As described by Unseen it's a complicated process, you can't expect a device to do that sort of gymnastics for cheap... or maybe it can be cheap, but with horrible picture quality and/or lots of lag.

Welllll... it's not _that_ complicated, it's basically just what a video scaler does.

I was emphasizing on the 'very specialized implementation' and linking to the DVDO's since those are very good at that particular job; lightning fast scaling+resizing+ratio control.
Of course I haven't tried all scalers in existence, but I don't know any other that can do so much so fast.

[Kilmaattikahn]

If I had this particular problem I would probably grab the Gefen HD Mate I have in storage(*) somewhere and try to use that - I think it only supports 1280x1024 and not 1280x960, but it should at least be less "deformed" than 1280x720 blown up to full 4:3. Other scalers that can accept VGA or HDMI and output VGA(**) or HDMI (moving the HD Fury to the scaler output) while letterboxing the signal would of course work too, the DVDO devices are just a well-known example.

(*) Yes, it's not very good - but I got it really cheap and it has occasionally been useful
(**) I'm assuming VGA output is what is wanted here because the PS3 could output component video itself without using an HD Fury

But wouldn't component on the PS3 be limited to lower resolutions for video playback (or at least subject to the same aspect ratio issue)?

The HDFury by itself would be perfect if I could force my display (a typical 4:3 CRT with 15 pin RGBHV input) to letterbox the signal enough with its picture controls; as it is, however, I can't make the black borders large enough to achieve good geometry.
Also, it's not nearly as bad as 720p stretched all the way to filling the screen! Since there are no solutions under €100, it seems preferable to tolerate minor AR distortion than to sacrifice PQ with a cheap processor.

[Xyga]

Since there are no solutions under €100

There are ! Decent pc LCD monitors under 100€ are a thing.

[Kilmaattikahn]

Whoa, really? Maybe I'm stuck in 2004 but I'd never even considered that option because I was under the impression that an LCD good enough to rival a Trinitron CRT in input lag and overall picture quality would go for at least some €300. Any particular models I should look into? I suppose this thread should cover it?

[Xyga]

LCDs are still behind CRTs in many areas but definitely not as far behind as they were 10 years ago. Let's be honest, for HD/widescreen content they're much more comfortable and enjoyable than any 4:3 crt monitor today.

Brands like AOC, BenQ, Acer, Viewsonic, LG, etc, offer 21" to 23" Full-HD IPS and VA monitors with good colors, responsiveness and low lag between 100-130€ (under 100€ only when discounted but it happens).
There's a lot of elements to discuss of course but we can do it in 'that' thread indeed.

[Smashbro29]

I want to get the best damn Genesis model out there, I know you should look for a model 1 that has "high definition graphics" in big letters over the cartridge slot but is there anything else to look for? Like a specific serial number?

[bobrocks95]

I want to get the best damn Genesis model out there, I know you should look for a model 1 that has "high definition graphics" in big letters over the cartridge slot but is there anything else to look for? Like a specific serial number?

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... m-bad-ones
(Apparently the pictures are currently down, but the info is solid and as detailed as you can get)

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Is the Crescendo Systems RTC2220 still the best option for transcoding YPbPr to RGBHV?

Anyone?