ASUS (VS278H) 27" 1ms Monitor , how much Input Lag ?

[s8n]

hi members , im thinking of getting the below monitor but i cant find out how much Input Lag it has


its not on the database


http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/



http://www.centrecom.com.au/asus-vs278h ... s-speakers

[Xyga]

You won't find it, however it shouldn't really matter since it's an awful, outdated TN monitor I personally wouldn't buy for $10.

[s8n]

hi Xyga , thanks for the warning id hate to be stuck with a turd.....................



so now im at the point of searching for a new model



what are shmup members suggestions ?

[Xyga]

Well here's a recent discussion: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51254
Not covering everything available or upcoming on the market though.

Hard to recommend anything as we don't know your requirements yet...

[s8n]

my requirements are below.................



-First Person Shooters and PC gaming .....no

-27 inch

-gaming , MAME and other emulators

-TATEable or i can buy an Arm



btw im from Australia so stuff may not be available here , i may have to import from Amazon although a Monitor in the post worries me a bit


if theres insurance in case something goes wrong with it that would be great

[s8n]

Xyga , ive been reading some of the link you gave and you mentioned the below



- Iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU-B1 (VA panel) -> big brother of the X2483HSU, but the rotating stand is included this time. Excellent.



ive found the below on Amazon UK



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Iiyama-ProLite- ... 2783HSU-B1



everything checks out in the model except on the link you gave the XB2783HSU-B1 is XB2783HSU-1 on Amazon UK


are they both the same monitor ?



and the one on Amazon UK delivers to Australia which is perfect

[Xyga]

XB2783HSU-B1 is XB2783HSU-1 on Amazon UK
are they both the same monitor ?

I don't know, maybe the second one is a typo ? Because if you read the product description it's written '-B1'.

The only real variant I know besides the 24" is the one without a rotating stand (X2783HSU-B1 -> take out the 'B' after the 'X').

[s8n]

i found out by scrolling down it says on that Amazon link i gave.................


Technical Details

Brand iiyama
Item Weight 6 Kg
Product Dimensions 62.3 x 5.7 x 37.3 cm
Item model number XB2783HSU-B1
Series Prolite XB2783HSU
Color Black
Screen Size 27 inches
Maximum Display Resolution fullhd 1920 x 1080
Speaker Description Loudspeakers
Wattage 4 watts



so yeah it matches the one you mentioned in the link you gave me



im thinking this is the monitor to get , im going to send a email to Amazon UK and see if they will replace it if its faulty or has a cracked screen on arrival.


if they give the all clear im going to order this baby

[s8n]

email sent to Amazon UK...........................


waiting.............

[Xyga]

im going to send a email to Amazon UK and see if they will replace it if its faulty or has a cracked screen on arrival.
if they give the all clear im going to order this baby

Yes, better triple-check !
(I used to work in online retail so I know how hard it can be for Aussies)

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

Here are my thoughts.

VA panels (which the monitor you are looking at has) advertise fast response time, but it is misleading. White to black response time is low, but is considerably higher between two dark tones which results in ghosting and inconsistency. The colour reproduction is better than TN panels but inferior to IPS panels. In the past IPS panels were slow but higher end panels are very fast, either matching or coming very close to TN panels. Never buy a TN panel.

1080p monitors greater in size than 24" are not going to look as sharp. Remember your face is right in front of the device so comparison to televisions is irrelevant. A monitor greater than 24" should probably be at a higher resolution. I also believe that size greater than 24" for a monitor doesn't improve the experience nearly as much as a HDTV upgrade in size may provide. Room size is a factor for a HDTV but not for a monitor.

When it comes to playing shmups in TATE on a monitor I feel that 16:10 is much better than 16:9. Simply because the screen is wider in this orientation. A 24" 16:10 monitor has more real estate displaying a shmup in the correct aspect ratio than a 27" 16:9 monitor. I can't play shmups on a 16:9 in TATE anymore I feel the missing lateral space is a major annoyance.

Hey, that's my opinion take it or leave it I am not a god.

[Xyga]

By the way how did you get a correct aspect ratio on your BenQ with the 360 ?
CDexWard was struggling to find the correct settings, don't know if he contacted you.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

I should have said before.

Set the XBOX 360 resolution to 16:9 1920x1080.

The changes you make to correct the aspect ratio is in the individual games.

When the screen is in TATE and the dimensions are correct for 16:9, multiply the height value by 1.111 and set it to the new value. 100% becomes 111%, any static number becomes height = (height x 1.111).

Games that do not allow you to adjust the height and width independently will not display the correct aspect ratio. Fortunately all CAVE releases can be configured correctly, except for the XBLA Guwange and some modes on DSIIX. I do not have many of the non-cave 360 ports. RFA works. Seems like the horis designed to display fullscreen at 16:9 won't let you adjust it properly such as Caladrius, instead it displays fullscreen with the dimensions slightly off but to me I wouldn't know unless I knew which I do but I don't care.
In MAME and other emulators it will always display the correct aspect ratio.

[s8n]

just got a reply from Amazon UK and they said if it does come with a fault or cracked screen they will issue a replacement or full refund

[Xyga]

@Astraea: Did you try setting the 360 to some 4:3 resolution ?

I have a 1600x1200 monitor and sometimes it gives me fullscreen with 1024x768 (Ketsui), sometimes with 640x480 (Galuda II).
If I leave the 360 at 640x480 it's always fullscreen.
That's on HDMI with DVI adapter.

I think it's always easier for a 16:10 monitor to acknowledge 4:3 resolutions and display them correctly.

@s8n: nice !

[s8n]

i ordered the Iiyama from Amazon UK about 12 days ago and i got a email saying that they dont have the ' facilities ' to ship it to me.



so im back to square one looking for another monitor.................



ive been looking at the below model , it is available within Australia which ensures i can buy it.



http://www.centrecom.com.au/asus-27-pb2 ... splay-port


review here


http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_pb278q.htm



what do you guys think of this monitor ?

[Xyga]

Bad luck !

Regarding the PB278Q I wouldn't suggest it as it is now an outdated model with flickering backlight (not good for motion perception and might cause eye fatigue).
The new updated model named PB278QR however is fine (flicker-free backlight, lighter AG coating, true 8-bit).
But I don't think it is particularly good...

The ones considered best IPS/PLS 1440p at the moment are;
1. Eizo EV2736W (very expensive though)
2. AOC q2770pqu or BenQ BL2710PT

Those three are all good but rely on integrated upscaling (i.e. for consoles) and as a result the image is not always pretty.
Also compared to 1080p monitors they have more input lag (around 20ms) and require a powerful pc gfx card with Dual-Link DVI-D, or DisplayPort out.

If you wish to stay in the 1080p realm here are some popular alternatives;

Current best IPS/PLS 1080p:
Samsung S27D390H or S27D590P
LG 27MP75HM
AOC 2777
Dell S2715H (just released in some parts of the world)

Current best AMVA 1080p (same type as the Iiyama)
BenQ EW2740L
BenQ BL2700HT (not yet available AFAIK)
Samsung S27C750P
ASUS VN279QLB (not 100% flicker-free but close)

Hope you will be able to get one of those in Australia !

[s8n]

Xyga i got the Samsung S27C750P today !



thank you for all your help i really appreciate it



i need to Calibrate this thing properly tho to get the best out of it , which i dont know ho to do it properly............

[Xyga]

It's a great monitor !

Real calibration would require the use of a colorimeter and dedicated software, but even without those you can most certainly find already satisfying settings.
Some info and advice available in the following reviews:

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/samsung-s27c750p/

http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/monit ... y-mva.html
(there's an ICC profile available for download in that one)

Also FerociousSwan used to own the same and he managed to get it to rotate both ways if that matters:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51254

[Ed Oscuro]

For a low price, Overlord Computer brings a good option:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ove ... 79-10.html

However it's 16:9 and high resolution (meaning high grunt needed to lift all them pixels) so it might not be for everyone. It's also DVI only, with no DisplayPort or VGA, too.

You might consider going over to http://forums.blurbusters.com/ and looking around at their threads on these topics.

[Xyga]

Yeah but that kind of monitor (1440p overclockable and lagless) is really exclusively for pc-only gamers who own a powerful machine and don't want to play on TN panels anymore.

Whatever 1440p monitor today is good either for FPS/Starcraft/emulators, either for photoshop/work etc, but not really the right thing for watching movies and play consoles.
I usually don't recommend those because they're a bit 'off-topic' for shmups, whatever arcade genre, and consoles.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have to note that I misread the OP's third post where he discounts FPSes. This really doesn't change my recommendation much; what's good for FPSes (quick response and low lag) is also good for fast scrollers. Having a higher refresh rate should also translate to better handling the emulation of non-60Hz refresh rates. Finally, we are not talking about a huge GPU performance requirement if modern FPSes and other brand-new action games on PC are required; the sub-$150US Maxwell-based Geforce GTX 750 TI should give all the performance required even for demanding GPUs, without even requiring a power plug. I also think Xyga missed that the OP has asked about a rotatable display - for large size screens I think this is not really that necessary (as noticeable off-axis color shifts do occur even in IPS panels, and at desktop distances you get a reasonably large playfield in 16:10 at 27", which is somewhat less for the now-common 16:9 format 27"). Here we will definitely see the advantages of an IPS panel over TN. While many TN panels have low-lag and quick-response features, as well as other gaming-friendly advantages, well-priced IPS panels have really started to arrive.

In other respects I still don't see how the slight difference in content type matters here, especially at this price, unless this is considered to be a too-high premium to pay for a good monitor - and I also don't think that cheaper monitors with similar specs should be overlooked. Movies should be fine across different panel types regardless of being 1440p; I have no problem at all watching 1080p movies on 1200p for example. There is also the the possibility of requiring exact 1080p support; I don't know how any 1440p PC monitors (with a wider resolution than 1920) react to 720p and 1080p, but in emulation and general PC usage scenarios sticking to 1080p is a distinct disadvantage. If those resolutions are handled well, then these monitors are simply even more flexible than previously imagined.

This next is slightly off-topic, but I notice from here that there may be some benefits to my own old monitor that I have come to take for granted which other monitors don't support (which, of course, does not eradicate the inter-frame flickering in some tones, or the slow response time). Think I'll hold out for a bit more as my own monitor is doing fine - I can't say that I feel that 60Hz panels really cut the mustard anymore, even if we aren't talking about running FPS content at 120Hz, but a whole basket of new technologies are arriving, and software support has to follow soon, that I think aren't all collected in the right monitor type yet, let alone at the right price. That said, aside from the few questions I still have about the manufacture of new panel types, the gaming-capable display market as a whole is much better than it was just a few years ago.

Edit: Here's an example of the kind of tech progress I think is worth considering waiting for:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/auo-14 ... 27615.html

As stated above, going for 60Hz only based on the assumption of compatibility isn't necessarily accurate. In fact I've noticed that some "60Hz" displays seem not to use a standard timing, and even if it did, any discrepancy between your source's framerate and the panel's preferred framerate can show up in various unpleasant ways. The bonus of waiting? G-Sync should start rolling out in more widely available monitors in the coming year.

[Xyga]

what's good for FPSes (quick response and low lag) is also good for fast scrollers.
...
Having a higher refresh rate should also translate to better handling the emulation of non-60Hz refresh rates.

The thing with the few overclockable 1440p IPS monitors available on the market is that when not overclocked their response times aren't anything special, just 'average for your average IPS'.
Several 1080p IPS have faster response times and around a 1/4 frame of input lag.
So outside of pc games and emulators that support forced framedoubling (I think this can be done only under RA our some mame builds?) there isn't much use for that feature.

I also think Xyga missed that the OP has asked about a rotatable display

I've noticed but you have to list all possibilities since there isn't a lot of choice. The Samung OP picked is rotateable although only one way (can be both ways with a little work).

There is also the the possibility of requiring exact 1080p support; I don't know how any 1440p PC monitors (with a wider resolution than 1920) react to 720p and 1080p, but in emulation and general PC usage scenarios sticking to 1080p is a distinct disadvantage. If those resolutions are handled well, then these monitors are simply even more flexible than previously imagined.

I'd say there are pros and cons to each type of monitor/resolution, I love 1200p but some people will get pissed at the poor scaling/ratio support of most models (lack of 1:1 or proprer 1080p and 720p, or well hidden).
The current 1440p are limited by several things, the 'overclockable' bunch is not usable with consoles, the 'versatile/mainstream' bunch suffers from bad upscaling (yes that counts a lot if you're a critical viewer) and higher input lag, thankfully they do support consoles.
My point is that for someone who wants a versatile monitor with excellent performance for his everyday gaming and multimedia use, and wishes to stay away from TN crap, the current 1080p AH-IPS/S-PLS/AD-PLS and AMVA+ monitors are the best choice.
I know we are at a point where motion blur reduction techniques, sync-processing and better panels are budding commercially speaking, but in 2014 the 60Hz displays have almost reached excellence each in their own respective panel technology.
Some problems like IPS glow, black crush and slow dark>bright tones transitions remain, but frankly it's the same with 1440p monitors.
Throw a 360/PS3/Xbone/PS4/BluRay player or RetroArch with shaders at one of the current top 1080p monitors and you'll have a fantastic time, with much less risk of being limited by response, ratio, or upscaling issues.
Slightly off-60Hz issues don't happen unless it's coming from a source that's really off, it's something the user has got to take care of himself on a hardware or software level, anyway if you read a lot of reviews the monitors are tested for judder and most offer butter-smooth 60Hz unless the user is really looking for trouble.

New technologies are nice, or will be nice, I mean if you hang out at hardforum, overclock.net, pcmonitors, etc you'll notice more and more 'help me find that monitor' threads with people asking for stuff that's simply not yet available, or available but with lots of limitations, or not available together on the same monitor, etc.
You know, I'm also part of the 'waiting for better' crowd, which also means I'm part of the 'not buying anything for years' crowd.

[Ed Oscuro]

Fair enough response, though I think the OP should be clear about these tradeoffs - good TN and 1080p support is certainly doable now, but it might not really meet their needs. Given the criteria given, we can only guess.

[Xyga]

Yes the problem is people don't want just one or two specific features, they want the perfect monitor that just doesn't' exist.

Money can buy;
- a top-of-the-line TN with G-Sync and BFI that's good for pc gaming and some experimental emulation like the the ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q, but that's till got awful viewing angles and contrast/colors for movies.
- an overclockable imported Korean single-input IPS monitor like the Qnix that's also good for pc gaming and emulators but can't handle consoles.
- a 32" 1440p like the BenQ BL3200PT with the pros and cons of AMVA.
- a 34" 1440P 21:9 ultra-wide monitor for monstrous hori real estate.
- a 24" 1200p IPS that's arguably the perfect middleman but often with poor or limited ratio control.
- a 24" or 27" 1080p IPS or VA that will be a perfect versatile screen handling most of the current standards right, at the cost of being unimpressive on paper because it doesn't have any fancy features (note that several are overclockable up to 72/75Hz without dropping frames nor producing artifacts though, which makes them still-decent pc gaming monitors).

There are a few oddities (e.g. Eizo FG2421 120hz VA), but none that really work well-enough to be revolutionary.

That's it, and there's nothing else on the market yet, you have to pick what's most fit for your personal use.
The reason I like current 1080p IPS/VA monitors is that they're the only category doing almost everything without having to compromise too much on viewing angles, lag, response time, ratio control, upscaling, etc.

I think it will be another 1 or 2, maybe 3 years before we can really completely drop the 1080p IPS/VA and safely venture into higher resolution displays and really enjoy the promised technology improvements.

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't think it will be that long. G-Sync (and maybe A-Sync, if AMD is relevant anymore) is going to start rolling out soon; there's no reason to expect that anybody involved will hold back on implementing that tech. And on the panel side, as I already posted, there are a number of pretty good IPS panels that already beat my "good enough" old-ass Planar IPS (which arguably shines mainly because of some other oddities about it, such as the lack of a grainy coating, and also probably a good setting with respect to PWM at low brightness settings). And then there is this as I posted just previously - I don't see that taking a very long time to roll out into new displays, since it's being made right now.

We'll have to see some results from websites like Blur Busters, but I don't see how an IPS panel with 1-2ms response time and a very high possible refresh rate is going to be notably worse for gaming than today's good for gaming TN panels. There are some areas where it might disappoint - PWM, backlight strobing can't be implemented currently with G-Sync, possibly some other issues - but I don't see those as making this suddenly unacceptable compared to TN panels which have various problems which haven't been (and won't be) fixed.

[Xyga]

Indeed some interesting stuff is coming but I'm usually a bit pessimistic when it comes to really new stuff and the first 'tries' of the manufacturers.
Every new interesting feature requires several tries to fine-tune and balance.
And as it usually takes a minimum of 6 months between the announcements and actual releases, I tend to think that each brand produces only about one or two good models every year.

Sometimes I think LCD's will reach their peak performance by the time OLED or derivatives will be technically okay and become affordable.

[Ed Oscuro]

Also, a bit more from [H]ardforum on the state of large monitors:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1836078
Especially the posts near the end.

Regarding new features, G-Sync already has had some problems noticed and nVidia should have them ironed out by now (mentioned in one of my Blur Busters links earlier). Reportedly displays with that new IPS panel are already being made, if Tom's Hardware is accurate, so 6 months might be a bit long. Still, that's probably how long I'll wait, at least.

The most interesting thing is to wait for early adopters to see if we have unusual problems with wide gamut, black levels, glare coatings, interflame flicker and PWM flicker, input lag due to different chipsets, and so on.

[Ed Oscuro]

BTW, here's some excellent info on the state of the industry:
http://www.displaysearchblog.com/2014/0 ... e-tighter/
http://www.displaysearchblog.com/2014/0 ... n-october/
...and a bit of background on what fabs prioritized this year:
http://www.displaysearchblog.com/2014/0 ... cd-supply/
...and something that is indeed "for the future:"
http://www.displaysearchblog.com/2014/0 ... ay-market/

[MSZ]

On my setup, a tated 27-inch TN monitor looks absolutely fine.



Its a VH278Q by the way.