Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Obiwanshinobi]

Another question, how does Elf hold up?
Liked the PC version at the time, but considering how malnourished European computers were in that respect, it's not saying much. Nowadays, this gameplay vid screams "up for jump".
Sheesh, I need to get into Amiga emulation one of these days, if only for Walker, Chaos Engine, Apidya, Cannon Fodder...

[Ghegs]

Is Atlantis no Nazo the one where you can get shat on by the birds flying by?

No, that's Hebereke.

Nope, Atlantis no Nazo did it earlier.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Actually watching that Elf playthrough, I kept thinkig Capcom this, Euro that, but what it reminds me of most is Heroes of Might & Magic, oddly enough.

[BIL]

Hebereke is in Raf World's staff roll. Also check the posters in stage 1's ruined city, looks distinctly like said drunken penguin (albeit sans his trademark stocking cap - FC res can only take you so far).

I wonder if the story's deal is the "terrorists" nuked said city, then burrowed in and set up shop underground? Ah, the make your own details. One my favourite auxiliary oldschool action gaming pleasures.

Avian scat, eh. Reminds me of JEKYLL HAKASE NO HOUMA GA TOKI aka Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of much infamy. Ryukenden I & II's proud winged killers must be so ashamed.

[BrianC]

BIL, what do you think of the NES Adventure Island/Takahashi Meijin no Bouken Jima? Unlike most arcade ports, it's actually harder than the original game it's based on (Wonder Boy). I still prefer Wonder Boy, myself, but I find the changes like spitting snakes and frogs that take more than one hit interesting.

[BIL]

I was actually going to ask if anyone was familiar with the FC and SFC Adventure Island series. I've been thinking about Hudson's stuff, now that I've got the hard core of my FC+SFC sidescroller library sorted. Gave the FC Jackie Chan a spin the other day - found it aesthetically charming and technically sound, but a bit too easy-going for my liking. Still need to try the PCE ver, but I'm way behind on that system in general.

Haven't played AI in a good quarter century or so, but I remember it being one of the more relentlessly hard games from childhood rentals. Also recall digging AI2's dinosaur steeds, but I don't recall getting much further with it.

[drauch]

Big fan of the Hudson AI games, even so to drawing some MASTER HIGGINS hastily drawn fan art back in the day. I used to work with a dude that looked just like Master Higgins. It was kind of disturbing. I dunno, BIL, the AI games are charming, but I think you'll find them a bit on the easier side. In the first three, most of the levels stay fairly similar and repetitive throughout, with only minor changes here and there.

[BIL]

I quite like the original AC Wonder Boy on M2's superlative PS2 Ages disc, though it didn't leave me wanting more. Nice distillation of run/jump/shoot with zero dead time, similar to Spartan X's 110% pure dose of unarmed close-quarters striking.

Something my return to sidescrolling these last few years has taught me is, I don't do hop n' bop. Konami's FC/SFC Tiny Toon games are solid but I just DGAF. Has to be something I find otherwise charming like the SFC Marios or MD Castle of Illusion. I see an anthromorphic mushroom and I just want to bust its dumb face open with my axe, naw mean?! Hopping and bopping auxiliary to gun/sword popping is cool though, ie Rygar/Top Secret.

WB/AI's fascinating from an intellectual property standpoint if nothing else, with Westone/Hudson's divergences in both game design and art direction. From the Aryan boy wonder to a pot-bellied Japanese dude with a sideline hawking autofire controllers at desperate Star Soldier players.

[BrianC]

The GG port of Wonderboy really perplexes me. They could have just put the SMS version on a cart ala Castle of Illusion, but they opted for a full size sprite port with less area visible. The sound is actually worse, as well. Not to mention the horrible name change, Revenge of Drancon, for the US.

[GSK]

Almost all of the WB/MW ports were handled by Sega (or whoever Sega decided to outsource to), so you can blame them for Drancon. The one exception is Dragon's Trap GG, which Westone did themselves in order to rework it for the smaller screen.

[stryc9]

I think I'm probably in the minority here, but Dragon's Trap never really clicked with me for some reason.

I really like the physics of the first two arcade Wonderboys, the MS and Mega Drive games just didn't feel as great to me. MonsterWorld IV was nice, but I don't feel the urge to beat it again just yet (I have it on the MW Collection).

I've just 'discovered' Chiki Chiki Boys(MD) as well, great game with impressive graphics.

[nosorrow]

As a Nintendo kid, I was extremely impressed by Wonder Boy in Monster Land on the Sega Master System (that was 1989, I believe).

I own Wonder Boy in Monster World on the Genesis and find it highly enjoyable. I have no clue how it is viewed by the "consensus", but for my money, it's more fun than the third game that came out on the Master System (which isn't bad at all, but I never understood the big praise it garnered; I also find the scrolling to be a bit on the choppy side).

[BrianC]

Almost all of the WB/MW ports were handled by Sega (or whoever Sega decided to outsource to), so you can blame them for Drancon. The one exception is Dragon's Trap GG, which Westone did themselves in order to rework it for the smaller screen.

I'm aware Sega handled the port, but that's beside the point, since they also did the SMS version of Wonder Boy. The GG version is otherwise a direct port, but the music alteration is especially baffling. The GG sound chip is the same, so the music could have been left alone. Wonderboy isn't an FM game either. Despite not being from Westone, I found the SMS port to be solid. Dragon's Trap GG doesn't alter the music, but it's still a game that keeps the same sprite size and seems to alter the level design for the worse.

[S20-TBL]

I was actually going to ask if anyone was familiar with the FC and SFC Adventure Island series. I've been thinking about Hudson's stuff, now that I've got the hard core of my FC+SFC sidescroller library sorted. Gave the FC Jackie Chan a spin the other day - found it aesthetically charming and technically sound, but a bit too easy-going for my liking. Still need to try the PCE ver, but I'm way behind on that system in general.

Haven't played AI in a good quarter century or so, but I remember it being one of the more relentlessly hard games from childhood rentals. Also recall digging AI2's dinosaur steeds, but I don't recall getting much further with it.

I've played 1, 2 and 3 (all FC versions on the original machine). 1 was hard as hard goes with greater emphasis on gathering fruit to keep the timer going while on a mad dash for the stage exit. I still hate the skateboard since it has a bigger chance of sending you flying into a pit, obstacle or enemy, but properly handled it was one of the best ways to reach end of level quickly before the timer screwed you over. Rather basic but the main theme still earworms me to this day.

I personally love 2 and 3 more, though 2 holds a special place for me. The sequels still kept the "gather fruit to keep timer going" shenanigans but toned it down in favor of platforming, exploration and combat. The dino steeds were awesome--each of them had specific powers that made either combat or platforming more efficient (pterosaur allowed you to fly and had a downward arcing bomb, plesiosaur allowed you to swim much faster, ankylosaurus and I assume triceratops had short range projectile attacks that can destroy obstacles) and the addition of a map screen really amps up the exploration vibe. 3 is really just an expansion of 2's concept with the addition of a few new areas and dinos.

My only gripe with 2 and 3 is that a number of the stages were quite repetitive in design (the forest areas come to mind). Maybe with a few different enemy placements and palette swapped tiles, but mostly the same. I think I might have finished the second game, but I'm no longer sure. This was all 22+ years ago.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I wonder how much Motocross Maniacs owes Monster World's skateboard. I can't think of any more games that would "feel" alike and come to think of it, one has to wonder if a skateboarding-themed sidescroller with heavy emphasis on stunts/tricks exists. Like the GBC THPS (my, Natsume), but a proper sidescroller with alternative routes...

[BIL]

I've played 1, 2 and 3 (all FC versions on the original machine). 1 was hard as hard goes with greater emphasis on gathering fruit to keep the timer going while on a mad dash for the stage exit. I still hate the skateboard since it has a bigger chance of sending you flying into a pit, obstacle or enemy, but properly handled it was one of the best ways to reach end of level quickly before the timer screwed you over. Rather basic but the main theme still earworms me to this day.

I personally love 2 and 3 more, though 2 holds a special place for me. The sequels still kept the "gather fruit to keep timer going" shenanigans but toned it down in favor of platforming, exploration and combat. The dino steeds were awesome--each of them had specific powers that made either combat or platforming more efficient (pterosaur allowed you to fly and had a downward arcing bomb, plesiosaur allowed you to swim much faster, ankylosaurus and I assume triceratops had short range projectile attacks that can destroy obstacles) and the addition of a map screen really amps up the exploration vibe. 3 is really just an expansion of 2's concept with the addition of a few new areas and dinos.

My only gripe with 2 and 3 is that a number of the stages were quite repetitive in design (the forest areas come to mind). Maybe with a few different enemy placements and palette swapped tiles, but mostly the same. I think I might have finished the second game, but I'm no longer sure. This was all 22+ years ago.

Thanks for the detailed post. I've got to put some time aside for Hudson's 2D catalogue, PC Genjin/Bonk as well. They're possibly my most neglected of the big 80s/90s Japanese devs.

I wonder how much Motocross Maniacs owes Monster World's skateboard. I can't think of any more games that would "feel" alike and come to think of it, one has to wonder if a skateboarding-themed sidescroller with heavy emphasis on stunts/tricks exists. Like the GBC THPS (my, Natsume), but a proper sidescroller with alternative routes...

I was going to mention Menace Beach/Sunday Funday (NES), mostly as a sad admission of nothing better coming to mind, but besides being an infamous kusoge it's truly just a shitty platformer with a skateboarder-shaped player sprite. Where's the high-grade brain bleach...

Ah yes: Little Ralph's jumpin' 4 best fruitz bonus mechanic had always reminded me of Wonder Boy's occasional item chaining for invaluable high-calorie foodstuffs. Enjoyed seeing the game cited in blackoak's New Corp interview translation, among other vintage sidescrollers. Bonafide arcade hounds those chaps. I didn't peg the sword as being linked to Rastan though, with it rendering Ralph stationary while in use. When I think of Taito's game (or Strider, or Strider 2, or Hagane) I think hacking stuff down without breaking stride. OTOH, dat downthrust.

[S20-TBL]

Thanks for the detailed post. I've got to put some time aside for Hudson's 2D catalogue, PC Genjin/Bonk as well. They're possibly my most neglected of the big 80s/90s Japanese devs.

No prob. If you're looking for a good challenge then the first AI might be more up your alley, but be prepared for a few cheap deaths--not least including deaths by time over. 2 is more well rounded in my opinion, while 3 focuses much more heavily on dino usage (from the little I remember it even gave you dinos at the start of the game, though I might be wrong here. All I can tell is that it had a lot more dinos).

I enjoyed your SF2010 run by the way. I once tried that and couldn't get past the first scrolling stage, but it was fun when I got the hang of it.

Solbrain had already been mentioned in this thread, but there's a feature I once used in a bootleg copy of the JP version that I've been wondering about for years. I've seen and used the "jetpack" maneuver (down + A with an Option out) which let you fly up as long as the buttons are held, but there was also a "boomerang" attack (down + A + B or something) which let you throw your option forward like...well, a boomerang. Hitting enemies with it caused a decent amount of damage both to the target and the Option. The thing is, I've almost never seen the latter get mentioned in any review of the game. Is this a JP-only feature or a bootleg-only addition?

EDIT: I downloaded a Solbrain ROM and tried various button combos until I found out how to use the boomerang: down+A like the jetpack move, then press B once your character grabs the bot. I also tried this in Shatterhand and it works. I'm surprised why almost nobody has ever noticed or mentioned this move, not even the two articles on Hardcore Gaming 101.

EDIT 2: Not even the game manual mentions it...

[BIL]

Yeah, the Option throw is a very handy maneuver to know - not so much for damaging enemies, I find, but for preventing damage to the Option itself. If you throw it clear offscreen, it'll stay away for a bit - very handy when you need to get in close and beat something down, which can often put the Option in harm's way. A prime example are those huge, floating magnetic mines that explode into shrapnel unless you kill them at point blank. Also applies to hazardous environments like the burning city's tighter areas. Once I started benching the Option for such bits I was keeping them way longer and hitting Powerup mode much more consistently.

I'm sure I remember the maneuver being illustrated in the FC manual, will have a look for a scan just out of curiosity.

Glad you liked the 2010SF run! It's not an easy game to love (I think you first of all need to be really, really down with the notion of boss rushing, and then there's the unhelpful controls), but it's worth getting to grips with. A true original. I particularly like the prominent role of the backflip and its i-frames; it's no exaggeration to say it's as vital to authoritative play as Alien Soldier's much more prominently advertised zero teleport. Feels smooth as hell escaping a dead end beatdown and smashing the suddenly outflanked target in one agile swoop - even moreso once you're regularly sporting the flash kick and Option upgrades, which make the flip itself really tear through crowds.

[S20-TBL]

Yeah, the Option throw is a very handy maneuver to know - not so much for damaging enemies, I find, but for preventing damage to the Option itself. If you throw it clear offscreen, it'll stay away for a bit - very handy when you need to get in close and beat something down, which can often put the Option in harm's way.

Whoa, good point there. I always wondered why they stayed out for around 3 seconds if you happen to throw them offscreen. So this is really more useful as a safety maneuver for the Option to get past hotspots (like those stupid underwater gears in Area D--I always clear Area E before I tackle that one) or at least stop colliding with enemies.

Glad you liked the 2010SF run! It's not an easy game to love (I think you first of all need to be really, really down with the notion of boss rushing, and then there's the unhelpful controls), but it's worth getting to grips with. A true original. I particularly like the prominent role of the backflip and its i-frames; it's no exaggeration to say it's as vital to authoritative play as Alien Soldier's zero teleport.

Yeah, the backflipping really did feel integral to most clutch escapes. Capcom seems to be really fond of putting those kinds of strategically applied moves in some of their games, like arcade Alien vs Predator's rising attacks (d, u + attack) being used to dodge backstabbing enemies and the like without having to pop a Mega Crush. And that's not yet getting to Street Fighter's use of DPs to bypass projectiles.

[BIL]

I'm currently busy on the run and gun side of things getting back into Contra Spirits Hard 1CC form, with the aim of nailing down a no-miss. Tricky bastard of a game! So I'm only bumping to atone for neglecting to post this impressive Shatterhand run. Natsume music fans get in on it NAO

[Ed Oscuro]

I also tried this in Shatterhand and it works. I'm surprised why almost nobody has ever noticed or mentioned this move, not even the two articles on Hardcore Gaming 101.

At the risk of being nasty, I'll just point out that HG101's title is a misnomer. It's not focused on gameplay mechanics and strategies.

Looking forward to new excellence, BIL!

[BIL]

Most diplomatically and accurately put, Ed. HG101 will admirably let you know what games are in Goemon's labyrinthine import-only catalogue, but they'll also claim the first SFC game drops his running speed for taking damage in sidescrolling stages. Aiee!

And have no fear - pretty sure either Patchy-kun or I am the reigning champ of HG101 chair shots here ^_~



^ actual photograph of my erection the last time I dissed HG101's Taromaru review



^ a man's legacy in print

[drauch]

HATE in print! I used to be at the top of "shmups forum" image search, but no longer. My glory days are over. BUT let's get serious here: who's that sweet dude in the video with the gold jacket freaking out? I must know. WHO KNOWS?

[Ex_Mosquito]

Famicom Disk Sysem - Wardner, playthrough. I'm not very pleased with this replay it's little messy in parts, and I get hit a couple of times from sloppy play.. I blame it on my dead legs from sitting on the floor :/

http://youtu.be/lCG9xSoaaes

[BIL]

Looks like a really nice FC conversion, the overused stage 3 BGM and usual FDS loading activities aside. Stage 2 guillotine timing looks good and tight just like AC/MD. Including FC/AC modes (similar to PCE Ninja Spirit) would've been more ideal than the lifebar though.

Speaking of wizard platformers and Irem, have you played Holy Diver (FC)? I can't recommend it unreservedly, as it has a couple of annoying flaws, but I do think they're worth adjusting to. A formidable challenge with some excellent, punishing stage designs. Truly a trip to hell and back.

FC Twin is such a cool machine. I'm so wiring up an arcade stick like yours for FC action when I get the chance (going completely off-topic, I also wonder about a custom A+B input - would be great to have a dedicated jump button for Technos brawlers, among other things).

[Ex_Mosquito]

Heya BIL. Yeah it's pretty decent isn't it. The guillotine section.... I swear that part has tighter timing than the arcade version! I'm not happy with the replay really, I should've had another try. It's bugging me that I took those silly hits on easy jumps and I missed a few other things, the biggest one being I usually kill the 2nd level boss with the fairy but they're harder to manipulate than the arcade and I buggered it up...shoddy play :/ I'm gonna do a no-damage replay of it later on the AstroCity with an emulator, sod it.

The Famicom Twin is a really nice machine but I don't really have a way of playing it comfortably for replays with my hands/stick in view. The best I can muster right now it to put the CRT on a coffee table and kneel on the floor, which is a bloody killer on my ageing joints..

Hah yeah I've heard about Holy Diver. I've watched it on the 'Awesome games done quick' stream on YT. I'm defo gonna have to give it a try soon

I'd recommend modding a stick. 2D Videogames have been scientifically tested to be 37% more fun using them, I find them significantly less effort to get the same results over a pad. Hmm, mapping A+B to simulate a double button press to a single button should work in theory, but I've had funky results in the past. For example, a few years a ago I did this on my Supergun for Final Fight to enable me to do the special A+B spin, but when I'd try to do it mid-combo it would recognise it as an 'A' input and carry on punching rather than doing the A+B spin that I wanted. I just resorted to hold A and then press B in the end. For Fammy Technos fighters is may work fine, though. I think it depends on the game engine and how it recognises and prioritises inputs. I'd test it on an emulator before you get soldering

[BIL]

I tend to get really bad restart mania when recording, even if it's just silly things like getting bumped by a medusa in stage 2 of Dracula... in addition, my only way of uploading footage right now is through TAS-customised emulators (I can't for the life of me find "normal" ones with inbuilt AVI writing - my ancient PC can't do FRAPS etc). I figure if anyone's really bent out of shape I can just post an .inp file for whatever emulator. I regard the stuff I upload more as game demos anyway.

Also can't even emu-record anything past SFC. So I'm just slumming it for the moment. ^__^ I want to upload some Saturn and PS stuff eventually, like Taromaru, Leynos 2 and Strider 2. Also PS2, Shin Contra has some neat tricks to show off regarding boss speedkills.

Speaking of Medusas, it's amusing going back to Dracula after a few rounds with Holy Diver. Now THIS is sine wave pestering:

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I tend to get really bad restart mania when recording, even if it's just silly things like getting bumped by a medusa in stage 2 of Dracula...

I can completely relate to this. I've had a few vids where I made some weird early manuvers in the run and then started thinking "wait what will they think if they see that mistake that early on, will it seem okay and natural or like I have NO CLUE WHAT I AM DOING and stop watching oh god restartrestartrestart".

[Squire Grooktook]

I tend to get really bad restart mania when recording, even if it's just silly things like getting bumped by a medusa in stage 2 of Dracula...

Yeah, I get that too. What I try to do is set goals for myself where if I complete them I won't give a shit about any mistakes I make later on. Like "okay, no getting hit up until midway through stage 2" or something like that. After that I just force myself not to give a shit.

[BIL]

^ I definitely do that with stuff that's got brutally prominent spikes like Contra Spirits (once I'm past that infernally tricky st3 wallcrusher, IJDGAF ANYMORE). Of course in one-hits like Contras and Metal Slugs, the doofy but harmless errors that haunt my very soul in Dracula/Ryukenden will torpedo an upload-worthy run outright.

But yeah, life's too short. I've got to upload some new stuff, bumps be damned.

Today I tried out Capcom's Marvel Super Heroes: War of the Gems (SFC). It's the sequel to X-Men: Mutant Apocalypse, a brawler/action platformer which I'm very fond of. Seems unusually low-profile for a Capcom SFC title. Might be for good reason. The initially selectable stages are bland, decidedly inferior to MA's simultaneously tighter and more cinematic equivalents. But that's not what truly got my Dahna sense tingling. No, that would be the underwater fight scenes. I thought Spartan X2's climactic indignity would be the last I'd see of these wretched things. MSH punches up the watery goodness with two of the fuckers in its opening stages alone, one of which is devoted entirely to the nautical drudgery. Same godawfully lazy execution - "ZOMG, the screen's all blue and the battle is struggling along at PAL speed! I must be under the sea!" Too early to decide if this one's worth bothering with, but good grief that's not a positive first impression.