Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire BOOTLEG ebay WTF.

[MintyTheCat]

Amusing thing is that the VGI Scumbag sells the Sapphire Bootleg for 59.99 GBP on his site but he has it on auction at 82 GBP - oh dear.

GBP 20 is fine.

You understand that ebay isn't free, right?

Cheers, Nostrodamus.

[Captain]

Heres why

[Skykid]

Skykid: GBP 20 is fine as a private sale but on EBay? It has enough issues with piracy and Bootlegs as it is. As we may be able to notice a Bootleg from the original most EBayers will not. Add on the effects of taking a photo and there you have it, most cannot tell the difference based on the information that they have been given up to that point. When they receive the item they may well wonder.

I have no issues at all that these Discs were made for those who simply want to play the Game. My issue is with how it is being carried out. Bootlegs should be handled discreetly and given the full knowledge that they are Bootlegs all the while information supporting any findings of Bootlegs or indeed if a Game is thought to be a Bootleg should be posted. A community approach and a 'safety in numbers' modus ensures this. We are simply lucky that Sapphire is very well known amongst the Players and Collectors and that there are sites that have discussed it but just think for a moment if none of that existed and Boots were freely passed off as originals on sites such as EBay that ANYONE can use - the potential to rip people off is much higher.

I'm not arguing with the logic: I think a bootleg should be sold as such. If I remember correctly the creator of these never sold them as originals on the website they were originally listed on.

I'd also appreciate Cave's reprints being marked as such, but they don't give a cock. At least the Sapphires can be distinguished by the care4data marking.

But again, you keep saying "passed off as something they're not". We know they're boots, the ebay listing saus says 'bootleg' and the quality is superb. What more is there to say?

[Bar81]

Amusing thing is that the VGI Scumbag sells the Sapphire Bootleg for 59.99 GBP on his site but he has it on auction at 82 GBP - oh dear.

GBP 20 is fine.

You understand that ebay isn't free, right?

Cheers, Nostrodamus.

Besides the incorrect reference (if you're going to attempt to be snarky, make sure you're not making an ass out of yourself), this just proves you're an idiot. Everyone prices higher on ebay since ebay charges fees.

[MintyTheCat]

Skykid: GBP 20 is fine as a private sale but on EBay? It has enough issues with piracy and Bootlegs as it is. As we may be able to notice a Bootleg from the original most EBayers will not. Add on the effects of taking a photo and there you have it, most cannot tell the difference based on the information that they have been given up to that point. When they receive the item they may well wonder.

I have no issues at all that these Discs were made for those who simply want to play the Game. My issue is with how it is being carried out. Bootlegs should be handled discreetly and given the full knowledge that they are Bootlegs all the while information supporting any findings of Bootlegs or indeed if a Game is thought to be a Bootleg should be posted. A community approach and a 'safety in numbers' modus ensures this. We are simply lucky that Sapphire is very well known amongst the Players and Collectors and that there are sites that have discussed it but just think for a moment if none of that existed and Boots were freely passed off as originals on sites such as EBay that ANYONE can use - the potential to rip people off is much higher.

I'm not arguing with the logic: I think a bootleg should be sold as such. If I remember correctly the creator of these never sold them as originals on the website they were originally listed on.

I'd also appreciate Cave's reprints being marked as such, but they don't give a cock. At least the Sapphires can be distinguished by the care4data marking.

But again, you keep saying "passed off as something they're not". We know they're boots, the ebay listing saus says 'bootleg' and the quality is superb. What more is there to say?

That EBay policy expressly forbids Bootlegs. Public sales site I'm afraid regardless of what is listed on the Auction profile.

[MintyTheCat]

You understand that ebay isn't free, right?

Cheers, Nostrodamus.

Besides the incorrect reference (if you're going to attempt to be snarky, make sure you're not making an ass out of yourself), this just proves you're an idiot. Everyone prices higher on ebay since ebay charges fees.

[radirgyman]

Ummm anyone want to sell em an original?

[MintyTheCat]

Ummm anyone want to sell em an original?

I bought mine in Japan and then one in the UK.

I bought them in 2010 and it cost me GBP 230 to give you some idea - I looked up what I had paid as I had forgotten. That's 230 for the UK purchase. I have not managed to find what I paid for the one in Japan as yet.

They appear to be going for GBP 300 on EBay as of late but be VERY careful as most of them say they are not fake but none that I have seen have shown the Disc up close.

[radirgyman]

is $400 usd a good price for an original? Has slight fade…
Hmmmm

[CIT]

Don't do it, man. Personally, if I'm gonna spend big bucks on a premium title it's gotta be in excellent condition and complete with spinecard and every other snippet that came with the game.

[system11]

There's nothing wrong with discussing this on the forum, given the context this discussion does not break the rules.

Especially if the sellers are shady, then it's a public service announcement.

[pegboy]

That actually sold for $250? Lol...I didn't pay that much more for my real version.

[Skykid]

That actually sold for $250? Lol...I didn't pay that much more for my real version.

Yeah that's way over the odds. I did say it was a very well produced boot though. Obviously the bidders concur.

[MintyTheCat]

That actually sold for $250? Lol...I didn't pay that much more for my real version.

I won the Auction but I shall not be paying for it. He has it for GBP 59.99 on his site and it went for GBP 150 - people should check before they buy.

I see that as a public-service.

[BIL]

What's your issue with VGI exactly? You brought this up a couple years back and I among others asked to you to clarify. No need to post correspondence.

[MintyTheCat]

What's your issue with VGI exactly? You brought this up a couple years back and I among others asked to you to clarify. No need to post correspondence.

There is a thread that System11 put up to express any dodgy sellers. I shall answer there when I have the time to dig out the E-Mails.

I am actually not sure if I am technically allowed to 'publish' correspondence between me and this 'Lee' character though.

[stuntman]

I won the Auction but I shall not be paying for it. He has it for GBP 59.99 on his site and it went for GBP 150 - people should check before they buy.

I see that as a public-service.

Yes, people should check before they buy (your words) so why appoint yourself as guardian of those who are too lazy to do just that?

[MintyTheCat]

I won the Auction but I shall not be paying for it. He has it for GBP 59.99 on his site and it went for GBP 150 - people should check before they buy.

I see that as a public-service.

Yes, people should check before they buy (your words) so why appoint yourself as guardian of those who are too lazy to do just that?

For the common good. This is a Community after all.

[MintyTheCat]

What's your issue with VGI exactly? You brought this up a couple years back and I among others asked to you to clarify. No need to post correspondence.

There is a thread that System11 put up to express any dodgy sellers. I shall answer there when I have the time to dig out the E-Mails.

I am actually not sure if I am technically allowed to 'publish' correspondence between me and this 'Lee' character though.

Apologies for the lengthy account but it can be found here:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p1049136

Cheers.

[Skykid]

That actually sold for $250? Lol...I didn't pay that much more for my real version.

I won the Auction but I shall not be paying for it. He has it for GBP 59.99 on his site and it went for GBP 150 - people should check before they buy.

I see that as a public-service.

With all due respect that's pretty cold. It was an auction, it goes for what it goes for, stupid price or not.

I know you have an issue with VGI and imma gonna check on that in a second, but I don't think you should be purposely doing the guy out of cash.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I won the Auction but I shall not be paying for it. He has it for GBP 59.99 on his site and it went for GBP 150 - people should check before they buy.

I see that as a public-service.

With all due respect that's pretty cold. It was an auction, it goes for what it goes for, stupid price or not.

I know you have an issue with VGI and imma gonna check on that in a second, but I don't think you should be purposely doing the guy out of cash.

I'm also pretty sure that qualifies as fraudulent bidding, something you've admitted and provided evidence for which I have an inkling it's against the site's TOS. Yeah, the guy's price may be way off, but that doesn't give you the right to defraud him. He did mark it as a bootleg after all, so the seller isn't being dishonest about what it is, and auctions are naturally the sort of thing where sometimes you end up paying more than something's worth if you make a bad decision, or don't realize its true value. That's the nature of auctioning.

For a comparison, I think those 'sealed' games that get paid ratings and then get sold for way more than they're realistically worth are bullshit too, but that doesn't justify bidding for them, knowing you don't intend to pay. Fixing a perceived problem by going and doing something way more unethical and potentially lawsuit-worthy that will get you taken to court is just absurd. Would you try to justify fraud/theft of a game out of a store in-person just because you thought the price was way too high?

If you get banned from eBay because someone decides to give the seller a link to this thread as evidence you never intended to pay him, do not come complaining to us about it.

[Skykid]

Okay read it.

Yeah fuck him, he's an asshole. You should defraud every other one of his auctions too.

[MintyTheCat]

Okay read it.

Yeah fuck him, he's an asshole. You should defraud every other one of his auctions too.

Cheers. And it appears that I am not alone on this either.

[MintyTheCat]

I won the Auction but I shall not be paying for it. He has it for GBP 59.99 on his site and it went for GBP 150 - people should check before they buy.

I see that as a public-service.

With all due respect that's pretty cold. It was an auction, it goes for what it goes for, stupid price or not.

I know you have an issue with VGI and imma gonna check on that in a second, but I don't think you should be purposely doing the guy out of cash.

I'm also pretty sure that qualifies as fraudulent bidding, something you've admitted and provided evidence for which I have an inkling it's against the site's TOS. Yeah, the guy's price may be way off, but that doesn't give you the right to defraud him. He did mark it as a bootleg after all, so the seller isn't being dishonest about what it is, and auctions are naturally the sort of thing where sometimes you end up paying more than something's worth if you make a bad decision, or don't realize its true value. That's the nature of auctioning.

For a comparison, I think those 'sealed' games that get paid ratings and then get sold for way more than they're realistically worth are bullshit too, but that doesn't justify bidding for them, knowing you don't intend to pay. Fixing a perceived problem by going and doing something way more unethical and potentially lawsuit-worthy that will get you taken to court is just absurd. Would you try to justify fraud/theft of a game out of a store in-person just because you thought the price was way too high?

If you get banned from eBay because someone decides to give the seller a link to this thread as evidence you never intended to pay him, do not come complaining to us about it.

All very true only that the item on the auction was a Counterfeit/Fake/Bootleg which should not be allowed on EBay in the first place by EBay's own rules.

EBay were notified by a group of EBayers who all complained about the Counterfeit of which EBay did nothing. As such, given the circumstances it was necessary to make the purchase.

Your 'Moral Argument' is frankly lost on me. You may want to work on controlling your melodramatics too. I have a completely clean purchase record and they are unlikely to ban someone over a single action and these things do not get legal. Find yourself some perspective and come back to reality.

[Skykid]

Okay read it.

Yeah fuck him, he's an asshole. You should defraud every other one of his auctions too.

Cheers. And it appears that I am not alone on this either.

You know something about all this is starting to ring familiar. I bought a PC Engine GT from someone several years ago on AO sold as working, and on arrival had endless problems (there are a few AO hardware threads about this particular one iirc). It would turn on and play for 20 minutes and then the screen would go out, leaving only audio.

I contacted the seller and he made me go through about 12 brand new battery sets in testing, before eventually conceding it may be a caps issue but it was fine when he tested it.

Why does this ring a bell? Because he had me to send it to a third party named Saur - a distinctive name. Saur had the thing twice, replaced all the caps and sent it back. Both times the problem persisted. In the end and after spending £15 more on additional shipping costs I just said it doesn't work, want a refund, and he offered me a partial refund I deemed fair for a faulty unit that may be repairable in future.

I do believe, now I think about it, that dude's name may well have been Lee.

Perhaps he just buys faulty goods from YHJ and finds a way to turn a profit on them?

[MintyTheCat]

Okay read it.

Yeah fuck him, he's an asshole. You should defraud every other one of his auctions too.

Cheers. And it appears that I am not alone on this either.

You know something about all this is starting to ring familiar. I bought a PC Engine GT from someone several years ago on AO sold as working, and on arrival had endless problems (there are a few AO hardware threads about this particular one iirc). It would turn on and play for 20 minutes and then the screen would go out, leaving only audio.

I contacted the seller and he made me go through about 12 brand new battery sets in testing, before eventually conceding it may be a caps issue but it was fine when he tested it.

Why does this ring a bell? Because he had me to send it to a third party named Saur - a distinctive name. Saur had the thing twice, replaced all the caps and sent it back. Both times the problem persisted. In the end and after spending £15 more on additional shipping costs I just said it doesn't work, want a refund, and he offered me a partial refund I deemed fair for a faulty unit that may be repairable in future.

I do believe, now I think about it, that dude's name may well have been Lee.

Perhaps he just buys faulty goods from YHJ and finds a way to turn a profit on them?

Looks like you were lucky to get your cash back, Skykid. I am still owed GBP 194.94 to this day and he didn't bother to send me any Duo machine back, he simply kept the money and continued to act like the scumbag that he is all the while inflating his prices. People like this are bad news. The other shady operator in the UK at the time was Telegames. They would charge over the odds for 'new' Games but on a few occasions it was clear that the games were not new or at the very least had been stored poorly.

Sadly this type of situation can occur when ever there's a bit of money to be made it tends to attract the worst types. Having said that, there are many decent Sellers and Shops around and with the Inet and auction sites the world is indeed very small these days and reputation is everything, Lee.

[VideoGameImports]

Skykid, I don't actually know what AO is but if you think you've been badly treated by us in the past, let me know and if you have any evidence of it, I'll try to do something to appease you. We did deal with Saur in the past for some cables and PC Engine conversions and things like that so it may have been us you bought the GT from, but I don't know what AO is and we only sell through our website and ebay. Saur was a nice guy but dealing with PC Engine hardware can be difficult. If you bought your GT back in 2003, it was probably around the time that low sound volume started making itself known. The problems we had with MintyTheCat almost made us stop selling PC Engine hardware altogether and as we don't (and didn't back in 2007) currently have an in-house guy who can do the conversions for us, selling a PC Engine and then sending it to a 3rd party to convert means there's too much potential for something to go wrong so we don't do things like RGB conversions any more.

We've probably had about a dozen customers who've had notable problems with us since the turn of the century. That means we have maybe one in 2000 customers who aren't happy with us. Sometimes it has been our fault. Sometimes it has been the fault of the customer. Sometimes it's a grey area. But still, roughly one unsolved problem in every 2000 transactions, while not something we're aiming for, is definitely not a bad ratio. You're always going to get someone with a problem shouting the loudest and no business or retailer has a perfect reputation. If you took say Tripadvisor as an example, if you only looked at the bad reviews, you'd never eat in a restaurant or stay in a hotel ever again! If we think we've done something wrong, we'll try to put it right.


With regards to the Sapphire we listed on ebay... it's a bootleg of a game which was never on general release. We clearly stated it was a bootleg and made no attempt to trick anyone. I have seen dozens of these bootleg been sold through ebay over the years. Many have not been sold as bootlegs or had any information which would indicate to the buyer than it's not an original. We sold the game through an auction-style format, starting at £0.01 with no reserve. It could have sold for any amount and we would have honoured it. What it did sell for in the end was totally out of our control. The price we were listing the game at on our website is irrelevant, as it was an auction-style format. If if had sold for £20, we would have honoured the sale, lost money and accepted it. Also, we have sold out of the game now so our website price is doubly irrelevant.

[gray117]

It's not perfect, but...

i) Don't dick people about ... hopefully avoid following points.

...But world is imperfect so:

ii) Insure whatever gets sent, or be prepared to write off
iii) In worst case do charge back if insurance somehow fails to cover you
iv) Disapprove of suspect ebay item - don't muck around being a bad bidder, report it, sometimes even to the rights holder as well who may care more than ebay.
v) Crazy sales? Don't be butthurt, enjoy (albeit more often in a fairly confused manner) the fact someone really values the game that much - unless there's something really devious/dishonest about it which duped the end buyer.

... Individual cases - hope they get sorted out - best of luck.

[VideoGameImports]

Thanks.

[Skykid]

AO is Arcade Otaku (forum). Said I remember Saur as the guy who I had to ship the faulty unit to twice, whether or not it was you being the seller Lee, I can't say for sure.

Either way it doesn't matter. Unit was faulty, issue was unresolved, and I was out of pocket on two special D shippings, but I came to a partial refund agreement that I was happy with at the time and I'm keeping the GT as parts for a rainy day.

But if you actually didn't refund or even return Minty's DUO unit that's real cold and as a business you should make good on it. The guy bought and paid for working system, that's what he should get no matter what happened in transit.