Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Pasky]

I got the JVC DT-V1710CG and figured out the issue with the NES. It comes from the missing pixel in the top left corner that occurs every other frame on the NES. I assume this confuses the television on where the line starts and causes it to distort and eventually corrects itself. You can tell it's occuring because the image is square and then distorts every other frame. I've also verified it using a rom that disables ppu rendering on a flashcart and the distortion disappears.

The nes curl doesn't even bother me, as it's just the first 3-4 lines at the top that are affected and it's minor.

I have no issues with SNES, GENESIS, and MVS through RGB. This is by far the best CRT I've ever owned, the color accuracy is phenomenal.

My camera sucks at capturing it's awesomeness though.

[cyborc]

I got the JVC DT-V1710CG and figured out the issue with the NES. It comes from the missing pixel in the top left corner that occurs every other frame on the NES. I assume this confuses the television on where the line starts and causes it to distort and eventually corrects itself. You can tell it's occuring because the image is square and then distorts every other frame. I've also verified it using a rom that disables ppu rendering on a flashcart and the distortion disappears.

The nes curl doesn't even bother me, as it's just the first 3-4 lines at the top that are affected and it's minor.

I have no issues with SNES, GENESIS, and MVS through RGB. This is by far the best CRT I've ever owned, the color accuracy is phenomenal.

My camera sucks at capturing it's awesomeness though.

As I expected, the extron RGB did not fix the "curl" at the top of the screen on NES games. Now I know why. Thanks for the info! I agree on the color accuracy. I'd love to compare this thing side to side with a BVM.

[cfx]

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[cyborc]

I couldn't tell a difference.

[Taiyaki]

This is by far the best CRT I've ever owned, the color accuracy is phenomenal.

That looks epic. What size is it?

[Pasky]

This is by far the best CRT I've ever owned, the color accuracy is phenomenal.

That looks epic. What size is it?

17"

There is also a 19" model however.

[cfx]

.

[Pasky]

Yes, but there is no cropping so it would stretch the image. The adjustments are available for H/V Size and H/V Position (offset).

[cfx]

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[KindGrind]

I have an unmodded SNES Mini hooked up via composite to a 27" CRT.

Question... Does the SNES Jr output a better picture than a Model 1 SNES, if both hooked up through composite?

How much of a step up is there between composite SNES 2 and s-video SNES 1? I saw videos around but they're all pretty non-conclusive, and or I barely see the difference.

Thanks!

[Xan]

Here is a side-by-side comparison of composite and S-Video for the SNES on a CRT.

[Pasky]

Only issue I have with this JVC so far, is if I feed it RGB from any console and put the output BNC terminals to the XRGB mini, I get glitches in the picture and changing the sync settings only lessens them but never eliminates them. Can anyone else test this? Just want to make sure it isn't my cables.

[KindGrind]

Here is a side-by-side comparison of composite and S-Video for the SNES on a CRT.

I'm not floorer by the composite / s-video upgrade for the SNES...

Negligible then?

[cyborc]

those pictures don't tell the whole story. s-video is a big step up from composite.

[Xan]

Yeah in reality you would likely deal with a mediocre comb filter on consumer TVs which means visible dot crawl and other artifacts. Only the really high-end sets like XBR had digital comb filters AFAIK. S-Video certainly gets rid of those issues, although you can easily see the colors aren't anywhere as good as with RGB due to NTSC encoding.

From my experience the NES actually has the best composite signal of all consoles for whatever reason. Composite output from the PS1 for example fares a lot worse. Using my NES on a BVM, the artifacts are stationary on still images and only move when the image is moving too. It's possible to eliminate it altogether with the trap filter option, but I don't think it's worth the substantial loss in sharpness.

[KindGrind]

Very interesting that composite signals are very uneven depending on the machines.

I plugged a Genny into my 2004 Trinitron CRT through composite and it looks HORRIBLE.

The SNES is very clear, with little artifacts.

I hear NEC didn't try to save costs on video outputs, so I take it it wouldn't look too bad if hooked up through composite?

I have one hooked up to the same TV through RF ( =( ) and it's not too bad, but is obviously limited. I'll buy a Turbo Booster soon.

[cyborc]

The Genesis is notorious for horrible composite.

The Pc Engine/Turbografx has quite possibly the best composite output I've seen on a console.

[bobrocks95]

Either way you need to ditch composite entirely, it's a worthless connector. I was blown away switching just to S-Video from composite after having used it my whole life. I was successively blown away again when I bought SCART cables and a SCART to component adapter. You're missing out on so much, and it costs very little to get there.

[Ed Oscuro]

those pictures don't tell the whole story. s-video is a big step up from composite.

Yes, this. You know, I must have an original SNES around somewhere because I remember upgrading Super Metroid from composite to S-Video. Not perfect, but a BIG difference.

This is exactly right - tiny detail shots of Link might reveal that there's not a big deal in good parts of the image, in terms of color purity and so on, between decent output types.

However, when you start looking at specific patterns and movements as the game is actually playing, S-Video starts to prove to be a big upgrade over composite. Super Metroid was my tipping point because that game has some high-contrast menu boxes, and along the bright edges of these boxes you get dot crawl (spurious movement in the image) and other artifacts in composite. S-Video doesn't eliminate all of these artifacts, but it mostly does.

That said, when I tried Pilotwings and Wild Guns on my mini SNES via composite, it definitely looked playable. Soft and not really enticing, but still playable.

The Genesis is notorious for horrible composite.

I also noticed this when I plugged in an original model Mega Drive for Splatter House 2. Subjectively I'm not so sure it felt worse than the washed-out pastel look I was getting with Wild Guns and Pilotwings, but that connection definitely sacrifices a lot of quality. That system should use a much older revision of the same standard Sony encoder chip, to go a ways towards explaining some of the difference.

[KindGrind]

Either way you need to ditch composite entirely, it's a worthless connector. I was blown away switching just to S-Video from composite after having used it my whole life. I was successively blown away again when I bought SCART cables and a SCART to component adapter. You're missing out on so much, and it costs very little to get there.

I did own an xrgb2 in the past, but was not convinced. The LCD it was hooked up to was crap, so maybe that's the reason why.

What if I bought a scart cable for my SNES, and something like this?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Com ... 336ab66db8

If I use this setup to hook my SNES to the aforementioned Trinitron HD CRT with component inputs, would I see a definite increase over composite?

If I follow the same logic, I'd be better off buying a cable like this:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Scart-RGB-Cable- ... 27e934ad94

...and the Scart to YUV adapter, to hook the TG-16 to my CRT TV instead of buying a Turbo Booster (composite) for the same price?

Pretty sure I'd need an upscaler of some sort and not only the rgb/yuv converter...

Input appreciated!

[bobrocks95]

I did own an xrgb2 in the past, but was not convinced. The LCD it was hooked up to was crap, so maybe that's the reason why.

Were you still using a composite source though, or did you buy RGB cables? An XRGB can only do so much, it still won't magically make composite look good on an HDTV.

What if I bought a scart cable for my SNES, and something like this?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Com ... 336ab66db8

That's just an adapter that changes the connector from SCART to RCA. So you'd need to have RCA RGB ports on your television, which I've only personally seen on older commercial Panasonic Plasmas.
What you probably need is a converter that will actually change the colorspace from RGB (SCART) to YPbPr (What we in America refer to as Component). Something like this, though there are other options: http://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCAR ... B004XSSDPO

My adapter is made by Keene and cost me $40 on ebay, just for reference's sake.

If I follow the same logic, I'd be better off buying a cable like this:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Scart-RGB-Cable- ... 27e934ad94

...and the Scart to YUV adapter, to hook the TG-16 to my CRT TV instead of buying a Turbo Booster (composite) for the same price?

If composite cables are anywhere near that expensive for the TurboGrafx, that's insane. I'd say test RGB with another console if you've got it (there are cables made in America for ~$25 USD). Even then if you decide you don't notice much of a difference I still couldn't justify paying even a tenth of that for a composite cable, but that's just me.

If I use this setup to hook my SNES to the aforementioned Trinitron HD CRT with component inputs, would I see a definite increase over composite?
...
Pretty sure I'd need an upscaler of some sort and not only the rgb/yuv converter...

It will undoubtedly look much better. If you want to try for yourself without buying as many things, get an S-Video cable for one of your systems and play a game on the CRT that you've played a lot on it before. If you can't notice at least a slight improvement (try hot-swapping between S-Video and composite first if you can't), maybe you should stick to composite and live with it? Everyone's eyes can be different I suppose. It was night and day for me going to S-Video, and then again going to RGB.

Since CRT's don't have a native resolution it won't look anywhere near as bad as an LCD would without an upscaler. I haven't seen a HD CRT in person, the most I've heard about how it handles SD sources is "kinda off". Also, do you have a Super Fine Pitch tube or just a Hi-Scan Trinitron?

I also noticed this when I plugged in an original model Mega Drive for Splatter House 2. Subjectively I'm not so sure it felt worse than the washed-out pastel look I was getting with Wild Guns and Pilotwings, but that connection definitely sacrifices a lot of quality. That system should use a much older revision of the same standard Sony encoder chip, to go a ways towards explaining some of the difference.

Mega Drives/Genesis' used lots of different encoder chips, but if it was an early revision and had a Sony chip it was the CXA-1145. They didn't upgrade to the much better CXA-1645 until late revision model 2's I believe. And there were much worse chips than the Sony ones they used. I've got a Samsung chip IIRC that's hot garbage. Rainbow banding, streaked colors, obvious jailbars, the works. It's the worst system I've ever seen in composite.

[lui]

I am having some trouble with a crt monitor I acquired recently,
Essentially when I press the power switch, it shows the display for half a second then goes black.
For example if I plug in a ps2 via composite it will show the playstation 2 menu screen for a fraction of a second then flick off.
Would anybody know what the issue is? I am guessing it has something to do with the power capacitors

[kamiboy]

Any way to check the hours on a BVM 2010p or 2016p? I reckon they are too old to have that function, but I might as well ask.

[jedman]

How do you go about connecting speakers to a BVM? what kind of connections and cables do you need?

[Fudoh]

BVMs don't have audio inputs, nor passthrough outputs.

Easiest way is to use a SCART to BNC breakout cable with additional audio connects and just connect your active speakers there.

[jedman]

BVMs don't have audio inputs, nor passthrough outputs.

Easiest way is to use a SCART to BNC breakout cable with additional audio connects and just connect your active speakers there.

Thanks I have the scart to bnc cable, but im confused about how I connect this to the speakers. What kind of inputs do I need on the stereo or speakers? can I use speakers like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-SRS-D21- ... 339498ed1c

[nyder]

BVMs don't have audio inputs, nor passthrough outputs.

Easiest way is to use a SCART to BNC breakout cable with additional audio connects and just connect your active speakers there.

Thanks I have the scart to bnc cable, but im confused about how I connect this to the speakers. What kind of inputs do I need on the stereo or speakers? can I use speakers like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-SRS-D21- ... 339498ed1c

The BNC breakout cables usually have RCA/Phono left and right audio out male or female. Just feed that into the AUX on your stereo. Or convert it to 3.5 mini jack and feed it into computer speakers etc.

Nyd

[kamiboy]

By the gaming gods. Lady luck, that frivolous tease, has decided to lift the old skirt for me once again. Just paid decent price for a BVM-A20F, in a very nice condition with about 20k hours on it.

Now I just need to figure out a way to go pick the monstrosity up.

I cannot believe that such a rarity turned up in my part of the world. Considering the slimness of the chances makes my head hurt. I imagine Fudoh's famous advocation of said model prolly had a thing or two to do with making the heavens move and stars to align.

[andy251203]

Does it come with any analog RGB/YPbPr cards installed? If not good luck locating one at a decent price!

[kamiboy]

Lady luck was feeling very coquettish that day, so yes it does. It even has the original box and a control module. Lady luck, she did good by me, come here you old gal!