Skykid rants about kids on his lawn. Dumb ones.

[Stevas]

Yeah. Here's the thing: I don't start threads.

I fucking end them.

Oh, believe me, the reference to "getting old" had some tongue placed in cheek, there; I'm reminded of the episode of Southpark where Stan (is it?) realises that everything is just... turning to shit. My own personal opinion on that particular saying is aligned with yours, but the scientist in me has to entertain the idea that, perhaps, there is the outside chance that the world and my taste parted company due to overfamiliarity and the passing of time instead.

I wasn't really attacking the education system; my gripe is more with your average human not factoring in rather obvious real-world factors when considering their own (or their children's) future (or - worse still - the utterly baffling self-belief that some individuals have that they can just somehow make it as some sort of "internet celebrity" or something).

(I would say the "education system" has always been a bit broken - focusing far too much on memory-based regurgitative testing - but then, I would say that, wouldn't I, being the sort of person who has a memory so bad he has trouble remembering what point he was trying to make all of one paragraph ag-

Where was I?

Yeah, put another way? The education system might well be inherently broken (that whole memory testing thing), but us being at the point where universities are looking for kids with 12 A***'s (or whatever the fuck they're called now) is just the logical extreme we were always going to eventually end up at, were we to not actually bother fixing the system as it was; after all, if the only real measure of intelligence we have is how much useless-in-the-real-world information someone remembers (you know, to prove they real good at that, uh... remembering thing), then it stands to reason that we simply need to make them remember more to "improve" them - and then give them more "badges" to signify this.

Everyone wants the fast reward, now. The early access. The instant gratification. The path of least resistance.
Not being told: "son... you might want to look at apprenticeships in bricklaying, or... something".

Now an absolute idiot can come out of school with seemingly better "grades" than I got. And what good will that do them?
But hey. As long as it makes them feel good about themselves.

The problem is, I'd say, not solely down to the education system itself (though it is responsible, yes): it's also down to the fact that your average school-leaver is inadequately prepared for the fact that all those lovely A***s (whatever) they got mean absolutely adjacent to sweet fuck all; that's not the fault of the grading system itself (indeed, the system has been tailored to the wants/needs of the users) - that's the fault of the users of the system being incapable of dealing with what that grading system says about them.

To painfully butcher one of my favourite quotes: "If ten people tell you you're brilliant: congratulations! Here's a certificate."

!

[nosorrow]

The manchild whose picture appears in that skykid post (below the Beavis & Butthead image) is killing me!

[cools]

I object massively to the new music I listen to being described as worse than the old. It all has merit.

And you're getting old and jaded. This is nothing new in history. Really.

Utopia it may not be, but take off your nostalgia glasses.

[Cata]

You all should read this book

[Skykid]

I object massively to the new music I listen to being described as worse than the old. It all has merit.

And you're getting old and jaded. This is nothing new in history. Really.

Utopia it may not be, but take off your nostalgia glasses.

Come on man, again, between the lines: I can't illustrate every single thing with a fine point or I'll be here all year. I listen to new music too and plenty of it, what I'm getting at is the stuff that's ungodly shit beyond all belief - the current pop industry seems to be on an experimental mission to try and hit the absolute bottom of the barrell and still make hard cash.

Unsurprisingly they're doing just fine. That Rebecca Black is a millionaire last I heard.

I'm not listening to any 'you think it sucks because you're older than five years ago' crap, it's nonsense. Maybe when I'm 50.

Maybe.

Edit: your link does look interesting though, will read some before bed.

Edit edit: only one page, wtf :/

Well it's an interesting page, but a little off topic with regard to this debate I think. Generational conflict will always be inherently present because of a connection we have to the things of our youth.

My argument is simply that the things of your youth are getting super fucking shitty and it's killing your brain. More along the lines of this:

You all should read this book

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Loving the new thread title and I will never know what book Cata meant because his link is broken.

[cools]

Google books extract is limited

Mainstream is as terrible as its always been, we just get less tolerant of it as we get older. I've started wearing earphones in places that pipe music in again, something I've not done since I was a teenager. Get some strange looks sometimes, but its better than having to listen to "voices" like Rihanna or Pitbull and feeling like Bruce Banner about to down a glass of Miracle Gro. Industrial power noise is soothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_Getting_Old

[cools]

Personally I feel the same way as you do, but I know I'm wrong and for every thing I can find a negative for I can find ten times as many positives. Its irrational, internally hypocritical, yet unavoidable.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Great thread. I remember saying the exact same thing when everyone was watching Homestar Runner ten years ago (I hate that shit)

I remember my Dad saying the exact same thing about The Smiths in the 80s.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Fear not, guys. The youth has already found an easy way to deal with those youtube/twitch celebs. I heard 'SWATTING' is the new hip thing the youth does these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz8yLIOb2pU

[CIT]

Thread brings to mind this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWJypFOobwk

[jonny5]

Speaking to Cools' comment about music - I don't necessarily think music is any worse than it has been in previous generations, it has more to do with the digital era we live in now.

Even 15+ years ago you needed a fair bit of knowledge, a ton of gear and the wherewithal to use it to make 'proper' music, and if you wanted to sell it you had to get signed or try and sell it yourself physically. Obviously this applies to some genres more than others.

Fast forward to now and any kid off the street can download a cracked DAW and a copy of Massive, watch a couple tutorial videos on Youtube, copy what they saw, put it up on soundcloud, spam it on facebook and Youtube and a star is born.

It's not so much that the music is worse than prior generations, it's just easier for Joe Blow to get his music out there independently, sidestepping the 'quality control' system of yesteryear. Where previous generations had the music industry controlling most of the output, and thus controlling the quality of what was readily available, nowadays we don't have that to nearly the same degree what with netlabels and the ease of self promotion thanks to the internet. Add to that the ease of finding anything with a couple clicks and the issue becomes more about weeding through all the shit to find those pearls.

I'm of the opinion that this is actually a renaissance of sorts for music; for every hack putting out garbage, whether major label backed or independents, there are artists who are making absolutely brilliant music that would have never even gotten their name out there in the 90's, or gotten signed as it wasn't marketable, are able to get their music out to people who will appreciate it. I agree there is a lot of shit out there, but there is just as many gems.

This doesn't really speak to modern 'pop music' or radio play stuff; this is an entirely different beast all together. One could argue that pop radio hit's of old were just as shit compared to the amazing stuff that flew under the radar, but that's a whole other discussion.

Just my 2 cents. I probably just don't get it though

[gct]

When I log into my YouTube account, I get pewdewdie and other trash in my "Recommended for you". I have no idea on what basis YT thinks I would enjoy this stuff but what an insult! It's not just those massively popular channels either - I went looking for a review of some small item, and the only thing I found was from some insufferably obnoxious 20-something making rage voices at his Little Big Planet doll and complaining about some new changes to YT monetization. He wanted to make money from his shitty videos, I couldn't believe it.

I changed my regional settings to Hong Kong, and now I don't get shitty recommendations, and some of the videos can be quite cleverly humourous.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Uncy ... ust_Stupid

[BIL]

So good not knowing about any of this trash. ^__^

I didn't know what a tumblr was until yesterday. Then I went back to dusting my Saturn collection. ^o^

[drauch]

^So jelly. I wish I could reset my brain.

My curiosity and masochism gets the best of me all too often. I usually find myself watching garbage at 3 in the morning to fuel my hate. I think I've watched every shitty Youtube gaming personality multiple times. WHY? Love to hate. Gotta see that complete 3DO collection in all that glory!

[Skykid]

Wow, I went to sleep and woke up to my own thread with a vaguely condescending title. Thanks.

I'll grab a coffee and read some of your comments.

The only thing I ask is pretty please, people encountering the discussion for the first time, please read over the previous pages before jumping down my neck about something. Chances are it's already been handled or covered and the worst thing about forum debate is having to repeat stuff for every guy who swans in to throw a punch.

[Skykid]

Google books extract is limited

Mainstream is as terrible as its always been, we just get less tolerant of it as we get older. I've started wearing earphones in places that pipe music in again, something I've not done since I was a teenager. Get some strange looks sometimes, but its better than having to listen to "voices" like Rihanna or Pitbull and feeling like Bruce Banner about to down a glass of Miracle Gro. Industrial power noise is soothing.

Yes, now we're on the same page. I'm sure McDonald's is trying increase the speed of customer turnover and speed up seat vacating with their choice of mainstream music - garbage beyond belief.

But stop throwing up 'we're old' links for second and entertain the notion that, what if mainstream music and commercial movie industries were actually getting worse? For a guy into dance/trance/house (from memory) it's not like you're kicking about shouting about Jethro Tull at everyone.

What Jonny5 said is bang on the money: the digital age has allowed new stars to rise independently through easy access music production. I don't like Dubstep but certainly dislike it less than anything by Pitbull, and that's a genre that has seen numerous bedroom musicians becone popular. So from that point of view, you could say there's a rennaisance occurring.

But my theory dovetails into this, with big commercial industries utilising the same easy digital advantages to speed up their production while reducing the quality. I've never been much for pop, but it's like they're attempting to see just how bad they can make some of today's musac and still sell it to kids. Why? Because speed of production is everything. If you can manufacture a Pitbull and then spend a day with the talentless prick in a studio, give it to a guy to mix into a godawful track, allow it two days post production and then start the sales drive, you're going to make more money - assuming people will buy it. And they do.

It's the same with movies. Today's shit can make hundreds of millions in profit, so why stop. I can always spot a rush job, but now it's starting to become difficult to spot the exceptions.

I could post YT links to some mainstream music that's had me wide-eyed at how obnoxiously awful it is: Little Wayne, Nicki Minaj and pals, but I'm sure you've already suffered that stuff enough.

All I'm asking is that you entertain the possibility that today's system of production is leading to a lower quality of output, and it's not only that you're getting older and are therefore naturally ostracised from what's cool with the kids.

So good not knowing about any of this trash. ^__^

^So jelly. I wish I could reset my brain.

Yes indeed.

Why not join me in becoming a social anti-commercial activist? Permission to hate 24/7.

Personally I feel the same way as you do, but I know I'm wrong and for every thing I can find a negative for I can find ten times as many positives. Its irrational, internally hypocritical, yet unavoidable.

I just get the impression you're rationalising a conflict here. Personally I don't think it's necessary: we can all agree there's good stuff and bad stuff and always has been. The question is whether the bad stuff of today is even worse than it was in the past. I think there's a strong argument.

And I'd like to read Cata's book suggestion to see what it has to say on the subject!

[Despatche]

So, if Jon Tron showed off DOJ, and the video was terrible, but we suddenly had 10 new members here playing DOJ seriously and submitting scores, you would say he still should not have been observed by anyone?

Yes, having 10 people at all submitting DOJ scores is unbelievable, but just go with it.

no, see, you can't just bring up such an insane scenario and say that's the point. that's not the point; it's not even a principle. if things like that did happen, this thread would not exist.

there's no reason for such low quality trash to exist except for people being low quality trash. low quality trash draws together other low quality trash and those are not the kind of people who can even be forced to take up doj and play it seriously.

[Acid King]

I don't think it's getting worse, just that technology killed off the old cultural gatekeepers and the shit is more apparent because of it. Like johnny said about music, the same can be said about movies, comics, books, and other art forms. Just because Hollywood studios aren't producing interesting movies anymore doesn't mean there isn't awesome stuff out there to see. With the cost of producing music and movies going down so much and delivery systems like VOD and Netflix and iTunes, it's easier than ever for artists, both good and bad, to put stuff out. If you're too lazy to sorth the wheat from the chaff then you're the problem. I brought this up before regarding movies, Skykid, and you insisted you are a cinema goer at heart. If you want to waste your time and money on mainstream movies, fair enough, but don't bitch about how everything is shit now because you're limiting yourself to what is most readily available.

As far as pewdiepie and that shit goes, i think some of you are vastly overestimating the size of their audience. I glanced at jontron's videos and his most viewed videos only have like 2 millions views. Thats a big number, but it's a drop in the fucking bucket in the scheme of things. That stuff may suck but it's also total bullshit to painting a whole generation with such a broad brush is because a fraction of them like garbage. Worrying that that's somehow making kids dumber is even more bullshit. The conversation is useless until you define what you mean by smart or intelligent. Equating intelligence/smarts with knowledge of classic literature or geography or whatever is different than by defining it as mental faculties. IQ rates have been steadily rising over time so there are likely arguments to be made in both directions.

[Acid King]

As an aside I'd also say that mainstream stuff may seem like it's getting worse because the talented folks are bypassing traditional factories like studios and major labels. Why give a label a big cut of your money when you can make more doing it yourself? Likewise with film, unless you need $50+million for effects, why bother going through a studio when you can independently finance and distribute it and avoid all the horseshit that goes with dealing with a big studio?

[Skykid]

I don't think it's getting worse, just that technology killed off the old cultural gatekeepers and the shit is more apparent because of it. Like johnny said about music, the same can be said about movies, comics, books, and other art forms. Just because Hollywood studios aren't producing interesting movies anymore doesn't mean there isn't awesome stuff out there to see. With the cost of producing music and movies going down so much and delivery systems like VOD and Netflix and iTunes, it's easier than ever for artists, both good and bad, to put stuff out. If you're too lazy to sorth the wheat from the chaff then you're the problem. I brought this up before regarding movies, Skykid, and you insisted you are a cinema goer at heart. If you want to waste your time and money on mainstream movies, fair enough, but don't bitch about how everything is shit now because you're limiting yourself to what is most readily available.

As far as pewdiepie and that shit goes, i think some of you are vastly overestimating the size of their audience. I glanced at jontron's videos and his most viewed videos only have like 2 millions views. Thats a big number, but it's a drop in the fucking bucket in the scheme of things. That stuff may suck but it's also total bullshit to painting a whole generation with such a broad brush is because a fraction of them like garbage. Worrying that that's somehow making kids dumber is even more bullshit. The conversation is useless until you define what you mean by smart or intelligent. Equating intelligence/smarts with knowledge of classic literature or geography or whatever is different than by defining it as mental faculties. IQ rates have been steadily rising over time so there are likely arguments to be made in both directions.

Well IQ is total fucking bullshit anyway, so it's not worth mentioning.

Everybody likes to muddy the water and blur the canvas by reiterating words like 'subjectivity', 'personal taste' and 'opinion'. To me things are cleaner cut and much more quantifiable. Asking me to define intelligence is absolutely ridiculous, so let's leave that out, but I've been pretty clear about the examination of quality and equally clear that not everything created today is substandard. A few posts up I asked people to read the thread so as not to regurgitate accusations and ask me to repeat the defense. So please, do that.

Besides, the discussion wasn't about everything being shit, that's your interpretation: it was about the snowball effect of dumbing down the population by way of increasingly prolific and patently idiotic media - the reason these YouTube fatheads and their audiences were initially called into question.

You might think it's a rogue theory and I'm entirely alone and that's fine, but hell, someone wrote a bestseller examining the exact same theory so there must be some parallel thinking somewhere.

As an aside I'd also say that mainstream stuff may seem like it's getting worse because the talented folks are bypassing traditional factories like studios and major labels. Why give a label a big cut of your money when you can make more doing it yourself? Likewise with film, unless you need $50+million for effects, why bother going through a studio when you can independently finance and distribute it and avoid all the horseshit that goes with dealing with a big studio?

I've got no disagreement with that, it's true, and most inspiration come from the independent. But you're missing the unchanged point regarding the impact of current commercial media and the people it indoctrinates most effectively. I never said the world has no more bright sparks, I just said the entity with the most influence is force feeding dog shit to kids on a never before seen scale. Complete wastes of space like JonTron are products of this. I mean someone actually watches that guy and laughs?

A million people watch that guy and laugh?

It's both a drop in the ocean and a sign of the times.

[Acid King]

If you're not willing to define what you mean when you say dumbing down the population, after all what is moving down?, then you're not saying anything at all. Not only that, but you're railing against not exactly mainstream products here regarding the jackasses on youtube. Honestly, your suggestion that kids are being "force fed dog shit" by some nebulous "entity" is questionable bordering on bullshit. Media is becoming more and more fractured and the mainstream as it were, is getting small and less influential. Even the biggest movies and music are seen and heard byfewer and fewer people each year. The idea that this mainstream junk, even if it were getting worse quality wise, is somehow feeding people crap on previously unseen scales is a nonsense.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

Well IQ is total fucking bullshit anyway, so it's not worth mentioning.

Acid King's point about IQ scores steadily rising is perfectly true (Flynn effect notwithstanding) and IQ scores are one of the only metrics we have for intelligence. Dismissing the evidence that we're actually getting smarter not dumber seems a bit off-hand. What's bullshit about it?

[Lord Satori]

[Skykid]

Well IQ is total fucking bullshit anyway, so it's not worth mentioning.

Acid King's point about IQ scores steadily rising is perfectly true (Flynn effect notwithstanding) and IQ scores are one of the only metrics we have for intelligence. Dismissing the evidence that we're actually getting smarter not dumber seems a bit off-hand. What's bullshit about it?

IQ is not an accurate measurement of intelligence.

If you're not willing to define what you mean when you say dumbing down the population, after all what is moving down?, then you're not saying anything at all. Not only that, but you're railing against not exactly mainstream products here regarding the jackasses on youtube. Honestly, your suggestion that kids are being "force fed dog shit" by some nebulous "entity" is questionable bordering on bullshit. Media is becoming more and more fractured and the mainstream as it were, is getting small and less influential. Even the biggest movies and music are seen and heard byfewer and fewer people each year. The idea that this mainstream junk, even if it were getting worse quality wise, is somehow feeding people crap on previously unseen scales is a nonsense.

Why is it nonsense, we've already explored the fact that the delivery methods are myriad and pervasive. When you refuse to read the thread to pick up on points already covered it feels personal, I don't like it.

Stevas extensively explored the idea that content delivery systems have increased a hundred fold. Marketeers have improved their techniques year on year, and their avenues in technology are bordering on limitless. To deny this is outright ignorance, and I apologise if that offends you but it's true.

It wasn't long ago that your life was invaded by marketing and commercial content at a fraction of the volume it is today.

Now the Internet is everywhere, television is mobile with thousands of stations. MTV is no longer a single music TV entity. You're fed and given access to content wherever you are, on the bus, the train, and on your fucking phone, where I'm typing this now.

And it's not just TV is it? It's YouTube, it's itunes, it's android, it's ios, it's interactive set top boxes. Video games, movies, music downloaded at a thumbtap, all coupled with a bombardment of advertising and perpetual introductions of new media. It's one giant eco system of mass commercialism FAR beyond the imaginations of any media industries only fifteen years ago.

"Nebulous entity"? Think about it.

If you genuinely believe the capacity of mass media to invade and occupy the thoughts of easily influenced youth - for better or worse - hasn't increased phenomenally, you've gotta pull your head out of the sand.

Now, I'd ask you nicely if you would consider reading other points already raised and perhaps address those directly rather than keep throwing me balls I've already thrown back.

[Acid King]

I'vr already addressed it in the previous post when I said the mainstream is smaller and it's becoming more fractured and less influentiall. You keep saying people are fed this and that but you offer no proof they're actually receiving this stuff in a meaningful and influential way and in larger numbers than before. And on top of that you won't even offer any meaningful explanation or evidence that it's dumbing people down. The internet has only weakened the power of mainstream media because of the massive dispersion of information.

Do you honestly believe MTV is more powerful now when they have literally a million competitors vs. 20 years ago when they had none? Just because the internet is ubiquitous doesn't mean shit because people have more control over what they see and hear than ever before and just because they can reach more people doesn't mean they actually do. You can't just say the mainstream is more powerful than ever before because the internet and turn a blind eye to the ways people actually use it. You can point to jontron's viewers and say it's a sign of the times, but the millions of people who don't watch that stuff or have eclectic tastes that don't fit your narrative are ignored. You literally have no argument here beyond the internet is everywhere and your belief that the media is shoveling shit down on our throats, and the latter of which is contradicted by the increasingly decentralized media marketplace, the incredible growth of niche markets and interests, and the declining viewership and interest in mainstream media.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

Yeah human capability is not a quantifiable thing.

Like I have said before I don't like the internet. I don't think the human mind is capable of processing the bombardment of stimuli, biased information and uncensored global communication. This is why society has gone insane. Those who embrace it fully are mentally corrupted and completely mad. I am one of the rare people who treats people online how I would if I were standing in front of them looking into their eyes. I don't watch youtube videos for the most part, I like music videos and episodes of old TV shows. Hardcore internet nerds scare the shit out of me. There are different factions of nerds, if you want to use the label broadly. I have hobbies that would be considered very nerdy, but I enjoy them in a solitary way. I don't feel the need to completely and totally engage with a collective to validate myself. My opinions are not dictated by other people. I haven't played online games in years now, that experience was damaging to me. I like multi-player, but only when I am in the same room as the people I am playing with and those people are my friends. I am thinking of moving to the northern reaches of the north american continent and living in the woods with the wolves.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

IQ is a better metric than "number of people that like stuff I think is dumb".

[BareKnuckleRoo]

All I'm asking is that you entertain the possibility that today's system of production is leading to a lower quality of output, and it's not only that you're getting older and are therefore naturally ostracised from what's cool with the kids.

I can agree with this sentiment to a large extent. There's still stuff out there that feels genuinely high quality, polished, well-produced... but finding it can sometimes feel a bit like wading through a sea of garbage in order to find a gem.

Someone at work thought it would be amusing to play Nicki Minaj's "Anaconda". I think nails on a blackboard for five minutes would have been a less torturous experience.

My biggest complaint with the internet isn't the quality or lackthereof with respect to entertainment; it's with how easy bullshit is proliferated. I'm talking about things like conspiracy theory nonsense, non-science like homeopathy or wacky new age medicine scams, claims that global warming is an evil conspiracy, creationism, heck, even stuff like geocentrism and flat-earthism hasn't died away completely and it's year twenty-fucking-fourteen. Any moron with a computer and an internet connection can churn out a stream of this thoughtless waste, and refuting it ends up being next to impossible to do properly because to do it requires addressing their points by citing sources, tracking down published scientific literature, etc, and in the meantime more thoughtless drivel gets spewed out. "The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." ~ Alberto Brandolini

Case in point: the vaccine fearmongering debacle caused by proven fraud Andrew Wakefield. Completely unsupported by science, but it was propagated and hyped on the internet, as well as on mainstream media outlets that care more about how many viewers they can get than actually reporting issues accurately or being scientifically literate.

"No wonder that in the wake of this internet campaign and the media hype, so many parents stopped vaccinating their children in the first decade of the twenty-first century. That wasn't reversed even after it was found that Wakefield had faked his results and his meager research was discredited. Once the internet has been surfed and the conspiracy belief is planted, nothing it seems can change it. The result? Having become diseases of the past in most developed countries, by 2004 mumps was back, and soon after so was measles."

Speaking of mainstream media, remember when Discovery Channel actually had nature shows and science on it? When History was actually about, y'know, history? Now it's all glorified pawn shops and ghost hunting bullshit.

[Stevas]

Yeah. Here's the thing: I don't start threads.

I fucking end them.

I did warn you all.