Skykid rants about kids on his lawn. Dumb ones.

[dunpeal2064]

Yes, I realize you didn't call me a subhuman, that was a joke regarding the oozing arrogance of your posts.

I understand what you are saying, I disagree with what you are saying (mostly how you are saying it, but getting into that will do us no good), I tried to move the discussion into a new area that still related to your point (whether you believe it is relevant or not), you made two short, arrogant posts... and yeah, I think we are all caught up.

So, thanks for the offer, but I'll pass on the wisdom of Skykid for now.

If you do genuinely want to discuss further, then please do, but your method of discussion is tiring. You could have simply responded to my points the first time (You were eating? Stop posting until you are done and can write a good response), but instead we got to do this little dance. Its silly, that at least we should be able to agree on.

[Skykid]

You were eating

I was eating yes.

I'll pass on the wisdom of Skykid

No wisdom, just a point of view.

the oozing arrogance of your posts.

No arrogance, just a point of view. You may feel it's arrogant because I said you don't understand the point and I don't want to have to re-iterate it, but there's nothing I can do about that - they're statements based on your posts. However, I'll extend the courtesy to be reasonable.

Yes, I understand your criticism, but its end point being "there is nothing that could make this worth watching" brings up counter points. One of those was my question, in which I brought up a scenario in which it COULD be beneficial, even to you as a fan of a game, to have some others view this. I'd assume you would like more people to talk about DOJ with. And, considering you would not have to have watched even one second of the jackasses, it would cause you no harm.

I understand your scenario, but it's not relevant to the points I made. Essentially you're saying that if a small and immaterial number of people actually get into DOJ it will make the inane moronic spectacle of another YouTube village idiot in someway worthwhile.

It will not. That's like saying that the collective idiocy being accumulated and forced upon the youth of the world is somehow made worthwhile because it gets a few underground games recongised by a few potential players? My point was far more deep rooted than that, which is why I said you didn't get it.

I don't give a damn what kid plays DOJ, for me it's had it's day in the sun and is a special part of a special genre: the brain death being forged by today's gormless shufflers is a much more critical issue and goes far beyond video games.

So no. Please do not present DOJ or anything else if it continues a downward spiral of infective foolishness.

You are doing far more than criticizing the people making the video, you are criticizing those who watch them as well, and not in a subjective matter.

Since when is this a new thing. I rarely fall back on the crutch of subjectivity, today I won't make any exceptions. I call it as I see it, it's much cleaner and to the point. You enjoy that shit, it's your problem. I'm not going to pat you on the back and give you a sweet.

And, don't come in a thread to debate and then try to limit the scope of the debate

I certainly did nothing of the sort. You may wish to redirect aspects of my opinion into a splintered "what if" scenario about what games reaches what new audience, but that doesn't interest me because the issue remains. Therefore I don't feel compelled to follow the avenue. I already answered your question, which was basically 'isn't there a positive side to this' - I don't know why I need to keep on entertaining it.

So Skykid, did making that post teach you anything, or stroke your intellect?

No, you are just killing time. Some people do it by watching stupid shit, others by ranting about that stupid shit on a forum.

I'm sad you feel that way. Personally I think there's ranting about stupid shit and addressing important shit. I like to think I was in the latter's court, but well, I suppose it's subjective.

Making it this factual "You are wrong for liking this and therefore are the problem with society" kinda thing is really stupid.

I never said that. My points were far more detailed and identified a critical tide of negative change in entertainment values, superficiality, and lack of education. I could write an essay but no one here would read it, so you got abbreviated posts instead with a concentrated helping of vitirol for emphasis.

but my main problem with it is that it seems to assume that everyone has the same level of gaming knowledge

This is almost off topic. Forget about gaming knowledge, that was an addendum to the more pertinent issue. The fact that most YouTube gaming personalities know nothing about games is a second fiddle problem that we can all acknowledge. It's got little relevance to the primary issue that is the delivery vessel of shared stupidity.

It has its purpose, and them showing Crimson Clover off, however bad the quality of the video, can only raise its popularity

Again, not really the point I was raising, so hopefully you've got it now and we can stop hypothesising about whether or not a guy acting like an idiot can raise the profile of an obscure game. I don't love gaming enough that I wish an intellectual affront upon the world as we know it.

I do hope this has gone some way to making the point stick, because all the above is is a recital of the same thing over and over, which frankly was already stated quite clearly in the posts before you jumped in with a sub-possibility I'm not really interested in discussing. But feel free to talk it out with someone else.

I mainly expect that you won't get it, because there's always one for whom the point can't possibily be grasped without some nitpicking or comments about Icycalm etc etc, but come on, make my day and prove me wrong.

[dunpeal2064]

Your point wasn't complex in the first place, I was just unaware that there was a "I'm not interested in discussing that" going on.

If you are only interested in airing something, that's fine, but if you don't want discussion (or only want very limited discussion), you can't be surprised when something is posted that isn't directly in line with what you want to discuss, especially when you didn't even create the thread with a limited discussion in mind.

The problem is, you are resting on the idea that these guys are idiots, an idea that no one is debating. I never said I enjoy Jon Tron, in fact I believe I said most of their content was not to my taste. So, if that line right there is the only point you are making... then yeah, sure, that's fine, not really an interesting discussion, more of a comment. Same with your whole "The youth today sucks, the world is going to shit" kinda stuff... yeah, no joke?

What I was discussing was that your blanket "This is horrible and should never, ever be watched by anyone" is wrong. YOU might not care about games that you like getting exposure, since you seem to have a pretty bleak outlook on things, but in the larger picture, these things to matter to some, and I think it was a valid point to bring up. I don't know how else all the idiots are going to be spoken to, if not through entertainment like this. Again, you probably don't care, but I am always happy to see even one person come to the dark side, whether it be speedrunning, shmups score play, fightans, whatever. I just want to see more people passionate about gaming. These guys appeal to those that just casually crap through games, and do so in a way that could indeed make them more curious about the depth that gaming has to offer. To me, this is an interesting idea worth discussion, and I've been curious about it since one of my more casual gaming friends approached me, having seen the MMX Sequelitis episode, asking about design and what games I thought had similar design to the beginning of X, and its approach to teaching the player without tutorials. That meant a lot to me, and I figured this might not be the worst place to discuss how we can appeal to the masses, being a fairly niche minority when it comes to gaming.

You might be digging into some deeper cultural thing, about youth today, etc, but I just want to talk about video games. Its not that I don't get your overall point, I'm just not interested in the direction you are taking it, as it feels a bit grandiose for a thread like this.

So, yeah, I guess I am one of those fools that refuses to grasp what you are saying. That's fine.

I do appreciate your response though. If you had retorted with that right off the bat, I would have simply understood that we are discussing completely different things, and that you aren't interested in moving the discussion over. And no, some random people playing DOJ was not the final point I was trying to make, but I was hardly allotted space to move forward with that train of thought.

So, sorry for jumping in the middle of your discussion, I'll let all the other interested members continue to debate with you.

Edit: Wanted to go a little further as to why I thought this point was interesting.

[Skykid]

^ Seems reasonable.

If you guys want to discuss why these guys aren't idiots contributing to the globe's wider idiocy at large I'll be more than happy to entertain further opinions.

[Stevas]

Thread summary:

The internet is arguably the best thing humanity ever created.

Unfortunately, they also use it.

[Skykid]

Thread summary:

The internet is arguably the best thing humanity ever created.

Unfortunately, they also use it.

Ha ha, that sir is quite brilliant!

Tell me you came up with that on your own and didn't pinch it from somewhere?

[ratikal]

The thing about JonTron is that hes a comedian first and a game reviewer second. He needs these games to be the weird obscure ones or else his show isn't going to work. If he reviewed Dodonpachi or Ketsui, I don't see him being able to fully do his routine other than something like "WHOLY SHIT LOOK AT ALL DEM BULLETS". Plus, that isn't what majority of his audience wants to see. They want to see Jon react to weird shit.

Regardless, I liked the episode. He at least acknowledged Ikaruga and Ketsui in the beginning there.

[mamboFoxtrot]

I feel like some kind of old man not having watched any of the folks mentioned in this thread...

[Skykid]

The thing about JonTron is that hes a comedian first and a game reviewer second.

Yeah?

Time to get a new fucking job.

[Stevas]

Thread summary:

The internet is arguably the best thing humanity ever created.

Unfortunately, they also use it.

Ha ha, that sir is quite brilliant!

Tell me you came up with that on your own and didn't pinch it from somewhere?

I did come up with it myself, yes.

But then a) that's no guarantee that someone, somewhere aint already beaten me to it (see... well, see what I said, up there, look - i.e. that EVERYONE IS SAYING EVERYTHING NOW); b) I have been working (yes, it is a full-time job - thanks for asking) on that whole misanthropy thing for quite a while now (strangely enough roughly the same amount of time the internet has been around); c) I have been saying it for years (again...), so I could quite easily claim that anyone else saying it stole it from me, anyway - and; d) I've an inkling that whoever actually does hold a decent claim to being the "inventor" of the net is probably feeling much the same way about things (a bit like a deity who simply cannot believe how many humans he's convinced to live their lives according to some set of rules - some of which involve coveting farmyard animals - after, you know, giving them free will, sorta thing) - I've merely articulated their feelings.

Do feel free to point it out to whomsoever you deem needs it brought to their attention, my good man.

[Skykid]

I googled it, seems it's yours and yours alone. A fine quote my man, its intelligent witticism made even more pronounced after so much lamentation of idiocy in this thread.

Good stuff.

[mastermx]

I just want to say, I like Jon tron, avgn, screw attack, angry Joe, and any other game related shows online. I find them funny and enjoyable. To each his own.

Where there's demand, there's gonna be supply. The Internet hath spoken, and nerd culture reigns supreme. Anyone that argues against this is part of a different era.

[Skykid]

Where there's demand, there's gonna be supply. The Internet hath spoken, and nerd culture reigns supreme. Anyone that argues against this is part of a different era.

That's exactly what I've been saying. I don't think we realise what a lucky escape we had.

[ZacharyB]

Considering this is bad... I wonder what's coming with the next generation.

About 2 years ago, my mother, who's a teacher, said that the board of education was making a lot of cuts in America: handwriting, grammar, English, Art... who knows what else. These are the kids growing up now and who will have buying power in 5-7 years, driving not only the consumer market, but the entertainment sector online (especially as webpage hits become more and more salable).

[Skykid]

Considering this is bad... I wonder what's coming with the next generation.

It's impossible to talk in absolutes, only to make educated guesses based on what we already know.

A lot of judgements and assumptions are based on types of consumer commercial media and what's popular. I always find it interesting that when raising the point of "dumbing down" some young one always likes to mention Waynes World or Beavis & Butthead from the 90s as examples of earlier 'waste' material for kids, not realising that both of these - particularly Mike Judge's animation - were satirical condemnations of America's thick-as-a-plank MTV generation borne in the late 80s.

B&B was amusing because it actually aired on MTV, making fun of puny middle class white kids seeking to boost their sex starved egos by rocking out to metal bands, and was a sarcastic reflection of a large portion of MTV's audience.

Nowadays that kind of satire has literally given over only to the aspects of stupidity, boiling away all the commentaries and just leaving unhealthy saturated-fat viewing. The fact someone here actually called JonTron a 'comedian' is all the proof you really need, but head to the movies any day of the week or surf TV in a kind of semi totalitarian Running Man horror as you observe the degenerative state of programming - particularly the absurdity of reality TV (Nude Dating?) and the conceptions of Garth and Wayne, Beavis and Butthead, seem to be some kind of social intellectual analysis (they're not of course, save for trace elements).

By this measure, assuming the next generation is born and weaned on even worse television than now, doesn't know a life where reality TV never existed, is by sheer peer pressure amused by retarded nobodies screaming on YouTube, and suffers some form of concentration disability due to media bombardment, it's very likely they won't be interested in literature, performing arts, prose, historical fact and fiction - essentially all the things that inspired some of our most enduring successes.

Star Wars was inspired by a childhood of sci-fi TV serials and classic Japanese film. Future generations will be inspired by Transformers and the Wives of Orange County. And Nude Dating.

Disparaging as this may be, I'm not a doomsayer. I think the west has a larger problem because junk media proliferates more easily and is more readily consumed, but I've met scores of young people, late teens and early twenties, who are hugely intelligent and driven by creativity. Yes, they're in Asia, and yes they're language students - all I'm saying is there's no way you can write anything off, even if the outlook is worryingly gloomy.

Now someone please photoshop me an image of Beavis and Butthead alongside AlphaOmegaSin so we can all appreciate Mike Judge's prophecising to the fullest; taking into account of course it used to be the viewer laughing at the figment of foolishness inside the TV for making fun of the reflection on the outside. These days people laugh with the fool on the outside instead.

:hangs head:

[Blinge]

You should really be making your own thread at this point if you wanna pontificate further, after all this thread is now about you. hurray

it's very likely they won't be interested in literature, performing arts, prose, historical fact and fiction - essentially all the things that inspired some of our most enduring successes.

This is nothing new. These have always been the territory of a few bright sparks in the classroom, and that's before taking into account the people that just vacuum up some knowledge in order to pass a test and forget it all later. The problem you're decrying was around when you were a kid aswell, perhaps it was less blatant, and perhaps you don't realise how indoctrinated you were.
It's all part of a steady decline since the television was invented, reality TV and the like is just the latest visual evolution in how to keep the proles sedated. Just look at the world's obsession with football, for fucks sake, is that inspiring our most enduring successes?

[Skykid]

pontificate

You took my word.

This is nothing new. These have always been the territory of a few bright sparks in the classroom, and that's before taking into account the people that just vacuum up some knowledge in order to pass a test and forget it all later. The problem you're decrying was around when you were a kid aswell, perhaps it was less blatant, and perhaps you don't realise how indoctrinated you were.
It's all part of a steady decline since the television was invented, reality TV and the like is just the latest visual evolution in how to keep the proles sedated. Just look at the world's obsession with football, for fucks sake, is that inspiring our most enduring successes?

Sport is very inspiring to some impoverished nations yes.

You're generalising the point. We all know there has always been television to sedate the proletariat, and junk food for the imaginations of children. I'm not denying that, I'm simply pointing out the volume has increased exponentially, dwarfing media material that may have once served as an educational halfway house; celebrity has risen to god like proportions, ousting the simple family from game show positions, models from advertising and perfume branding, littering the bestseller shelves in bookstores once reserved for works of fact and fiction, and overtaking the magazine industry with gossip rags.

The issue isn't that it's always been around in some form or another, but that the concentration has increased annually to epidemic proportions. You may say that literature, arts and prose was always reserved for a small margin of youth, but I don't think that's necessarily true. A vast proportion of today's youth and young adults are completely ignorant of anything vaguely intellectual to compliment their diet of relaxation and vegetation. The scale has really tipped dramatically toward a pure diet of brain lard. I'd argue in the past there was a little more dilution.

I'm not sure why you say his thread is 'all about me', because I'm not discussing me. I am discussing an offshoot from the thread topic which is about a fat hairy idiot rolling around on his sofa to the joy of a million people. Since this thread was dead by the point I contributed anyway, I don't see any harm in allowing for discussion of something a lot more interesting than JonTron's superbly shit contributions to the human race.

[Lord Satori]

Reminds me of a movie called Idiocracy. It was about a guy who awakes from cryogenics into the far future, and literally everyone else is a complete dipshit. I think that's an accurate portrait of humanity's potential future. Or at least the one you seem to think we're heading towards.

[Skykid]

Must watch.

"Idiocracy is a 2006 American satirical science fiction comedy film directed by Mike Judge and starring Luke Wilson, Maya Rudolph, Dax Shepard, and Terry Crews. The film tells the story of two people who take part in a top-secret military hibernation experiment, only to awaken 500 years later in a dystopian society wherein advertising, commercialism, and cultural anti-intellectualism have run rampant and dysgenic pressure has resulted in a uniformly unthinking society devoid of intellectual curiosity, social responsibility, and coherent notions of justice and human rights."

Mike Judge again. Could be another prophecy.

[Stevas]

To be honest, I've been resigned to becoming more and more confused by what children see as entertainment for some time now (see also: "getting old") - remember what your dad thought of you playing vidyagaymz, now - but what I do see as a growing problem is the lack of patience, and the sheer consumerism (as in, almost everything is throw-away, post-consumption) on display now.

Back in the day (yes, when it were actually all fields), I had to save up christ-knows-how-long to be able to afford a SNES import StreetFigher II cart (with the adaptor which you plugged a legit UK cart into also - to fool it into thinking you were Japanese). And THEN I had to wait for the fucker to get delivered.
If you even HAD a TV you only got three channels, and even then only at certain times of day. Oh, and if you missed something, well howabout fuck you; it might get repeated, it might not... if you were willing to wait the six-months-to-a-year for it to appear on VHS, then there was always that "option".

Now? The average child can barely contain their anger/confusion if their download speed drops while they stream whatever instantly, in the background, while doing something else that would, frankly, blow the mind of a young Stevas. Try to explain the concept of "waiting" and "working towards" something to them, and they start prodding you and asking you what it's like where you come from.

This way of thinking is more deep-rooted - and damaging - than mere entertainment, though: most kids I've spoken to on their chosen career paths seem woefully misguided in their expectations and how quickly they think they're achievable. Perhaps it's the fact we now throw out "A" grades (Nobody loses at school, right? Even though it is, actually, a competition.) like they fell out of cereal packets, perhaps it's that teachers are hamstrung in just how much they can now "manage" said expectations (one wonders how many parents have had a teacher pulled over coals for merely suggesting that their child "lower them, somewhat"), but if the average kid's (and parent's) hopes are anything to go by, then (due to the world's finances fucking up everyone's retirement plans - and that pesky life expectancy keeps creeping up, doesn't it?) - woooo, boy - are we going to have some damn well qualified fries served us up soon.

[sven666]

this was just awful, desperatly unfunny and not charismatic or valid in the slightest, also old as hell news for most gamers that have been around for a generation or two, the question of "why was this even made?" comes to mind, I will go back to lurking now..

[Blinge]

Just look at the world's obsession with football, for fucks sake, is that inspiring our most enduring successes?

Sport is very inspiring to some impoverished nations yes.

k

[Lord Satori]

Must watch.

"Idiocracy is a 2006 American satirical science fiction comedy film directed by Mike Judge and starring Luke Wilson, Maya Rudolph, Dax Shepard, and Terry Crews. The film tells the story of two people who take part in a top-secret military hibernation experiment, only to awaken 500 years later in a dystopian society wherein advertising, commercialism, and cultural anti-intellectualism have run rampant and dysgenic pressure has resulted in a uniformly unthinking society devoid of intellectual curiosity, social responsibility, and coherent notions of justice and human rights."

Mike Judge again. Could be another prophecy.

Looking forward to your post in the movies thread.

Just look at the world's obsession with football, for fucks sake, is that inspiring our most enduring successes?

Sport is very inspiring to some impoverished nations yes.

k

lol, oh god. That first image.

[rancor]

Must watch.

I'm honestly astounded that you haven't seen this already as it seems right up your alley. While not a perfect film, it does have it's high-points as well as a good message. Keep in mind that it is ultra-low budget, and was practically aborted by the studio when released and you may be more impressed. Look forward to hearing what you think of it. Mike Judge is my hometown hero.

[Skykid]

BlInge why the sarcasm. Do you think demonstrations during the world cup somehow slipped by everyone. The point doesn't change even if you try to pervert it: sometimes sport and sporting heroes offer inspiration in countries where there's little in the way of economy, education and infrastructure.

Those protesting people's problems aren't going to go away whether they host the world cup or not, sadly.

You're really starting to come off as overly butthurt about being tarred with the idiot brush. No one is making a direct judgement about you, only what you watch.

If you're suggesting JonTron and pals offer equal entertainment value to atheletic competition, then yes, I'd be making a judgement about you.

Must watch.

I'm honestly astounded that you haven't seen this already as it seems right up your alley. While not a perfect film, it does have it's high-points as well as a good message. Keep in mind that it is ultra-low budget, and was practically aborted by the studio when released and you may be more impressed. Look forward to hearing what you think of it. Mike Judge is my hometown hero.

Well I didn't know it existed! I'm a fan of Judge, so I'm looking forward to it. Also ultra low budget is more than fine, most of the time I prefer it.

[Skykid]

Stevas, meant to get back to your post, you raised some interesting points.

To be honest, I've been resigned to becoming more and more confused by what children see as entertainment for some time now (see also: "getting old") - remember what your dad thought of you playing vidyagaymz, now - but what I do see as a growing problem is the lack of patience, and the sheer consumerism (as in, almost everything is throw-away, post-consumption) on display now.

Back in the day (yes, when it were actually all fields), I had to save up christ-knows-how-long to be able to afford a SNES import StreetFigher II cart (with the adaptor which you plugged a legit UK cart into also - to fool it into thinking you were Japanese). And THEN I had to wait for the fucker to get delivered.
If you even HAD a TV you only got three channels, and even then only at certain times of day. Oh, and if you missed something, well howabout fuck you; it might get repeated, it might not... if you were willing to wait the six-months-to-a-year for it to appear on VHS, then there was always that "option".

Now? The average child can barely contain their anger/confusion if their download speed drops while they stream whatever instantly, in the background, while doing something else that would, frankly, blow the mind of a young Stevas. Try to explain the concept of "waiting" and "working towards" something to them, and they start prodding you and asking you what it's like where you come from.

This is an important aspect of the wider problem I think, but definitely fundamental to it. On one hand the content itself is degenerative, as we've outlined heavily already, but bombardment and ease of access to that content is fuel to the fire.

This also meets Blinge's earlier comment head-on about how previous generations (ours perhaps) had a similar lack of exposure to literature, arts etc, to which I disagreed. And this is a large part of why. I went to a school that was 50% intelligent hard working students and 50% butthead wasters, and I would hang with the latter. I fucked around so much I had to retake a year to pass my examinations, and I dropped an A-Level entirely because I couldn't be bothered with it. That was partly peer pressure and partly because I hated the educational system (and still do, it's archaic).

But I knew what I did like: English, History and Art. My teachers would tell me they couldn't fathom how I could act like such an idiot and manage an A in English A-Level without reading half of the books.

But when I wasn't pissing around downing Diamond Whites in cemetaries I would read all the time, illustrate and write creatively. There was no internet to burn time on, or to distract. When Gamesmaster on Channel 4 was finished once a week, there wasn't really anything else to watch, so I would either sit down and play a game or write a review about it on my ancient Amstrad, draw something or grab a book from the stairwell.

I'm a journalist today off my own back, self-taught: no fancy certificates, badges or stickers to say 'I'm qualified'. But if I had the internet at my fingertips back then, shit, I don't know. Maybe being creative is just a thing, but even today the net is a phenomenal distraction, so I have no idea if I would have been able to apply myself in my free time when I was a teenager.

This way of thinking is more deep-rooted - and damaging - than mere entertainment, though: most kids I've spoken to on their chosen career paths seem woefully misguided in their expectations and how quickly they think they're achievable. Perhaps it's the fact we now throw out "A" grades (Nobody loses at school, right? Even though it is, actually, a competition.) like they fell out of cereal packets, perhaps it's that teachers are hamstrung in just how much they can now "manage" said expectations (one wonders how many parents have had a teacher pulled over coals for merely suggesting that their child "lower them, somewhat"), but if the average kid's (and parent's) hopes are anything to go by, then (due to the world's finances fucking up everyone's retirement plans - and that pesky life expectancy keeps creeping up, doesn't it?) - woooo, boy - are we going to have some damn well qualified fries served us up soon.

I expect you've been served some incredibly over qualified fries many times already. But to be fair, this is an entirely different discussion that's even more thorny and knotted than this one. I'm a staunch detractor of the educational system, student debt, and all the falsehoods that go with it. But you might want to start a new thread if we're going to attack it.

One thing you mentioned is the aspect of 'maybe we're just getting old' with regard to not understanding or connecting with today's general media. And I'll have to stop you right there with a big fuck that.
I'm still young, I regularly go out and get totally fucked up, I'm not married and I don't have kids. The cold fact is it's not only that you're getting older, it's that the content is actually getting worse. Much, much, much worse.

Its not that you're getting old that you think music sounds worse, or films seem worse: they actually are worse. I hate that bullshit rose-tinted myth people like to throw at you - hate it. Next time someone tries to spin that shit just tell them they're an unfortunate generation born into a world with little quality and absolutely no taste, and therefore they posess none. That should bring things back in line.

[Bananamatic]

i thought this was shmups chat

[Skykid]

It was but it was boring so I came over to play.

[Pretas]

A song about Skykid

[Acid King]

i thought this was shmups chat

Not anymore.