Anyone want to port and publish Mitchell's arcade games?

[Pretas]

On modern platforms? Osman/Cannon Dancer, Funky Jet, Charlie Ninja, the still-unemulated Gamshara, and others?

If you have the skills and capital, they're totally up for grabs. The source code for all games has apparently been preserved and can be provided.

I would pay $20 for a downloadable 360/PS3 port of Cannon Dancer with a proper English retranslation, bugfixes, and a new difficulty setting that tones down the special attacks.

[Skykid]

I would pay $20 for a downloadable 360/PS3 port of Cannon Dancer with a proper English retranslation, bugfixes, and a new difficulty setting that tones down the special attacks.

Semi related, have you ever tried 1ccing Osman?

It's certainly not a better overall package than Strider, although the initial couple of stages make it seem as though it has the potential to be superior. But I don't think it is.

Those special attacks are overpowered, but in the grand scheme of clearing the game you might find yourself desperate for a few more in stock.

[jepjepjep]

Just like in Strider the last stage ramps up the difficulty quite a bit, but the bombs are generous enough. This is the only stage that introduces checkpoints. Once you figure out how to safely get through the fire dancers, then the tank boss that awaits isn't very hard but you might be pressed for time so it's a little tricky. Then you're at the next checkpoint and you have a cool battle with the fake Kirin, which you shouldn't have to bomb once you get a strategy down (you can even cheese him if you want to be lame). After the jump, you have to take on the three midbosses at once. This is the part where shit gets real, so a bomb or two are in order, leaving you with a final bomb for the last boss fight. Overall it's pretty fair, and if you use up all of your bombs before the final boss, you checkpoint right at the battle again so you can take her down with a full stock. Strider was too easy, I think Cannon Dancer nails the difficulty just right. I think it's a masterpiece. The game mechanics are better than Strider, the only thing holding it back is the music isn't as memorable.

[Skykid]

I think it's a masterpiece.

The moveset and mechanics are excellent, but the stage design is weaker than Strider, doesn't have its broadness or cinematic grandeur. Osman's ability to piledrive out of the air is awesome, but there aren't a ton of places to use it.

Boss patterns aren't well thought out either - they often don't even have patterns as such, just a random set of attacks. But as aforementioned, Osman is easy - partly owed to the super attacks - right until the last stage. I don't mind being put to work at the finale, but I don't want to coast there with little resistance only to be constantly sent back to the start because it's ridiculously unbalanced compared to the rest of the game. Which is exactly what happens over and over.

I should probably mention that the final stage, for those who are yet to encounter it, is really badly designed. A synopsis:

EDIT: REDACTED - I've changed my position on this game!

Strider is easier overall, although harder than Osman's first four stages. But it's a better-balanced game. It feels richer in sum I feel.

Osman is a solid 7. EDIT: Solid 8!

[Mortificator]

This news story is actually several weeks old, having first broken on the Facebook feed of Kouichi Yotsui, creator of both Strider and Cannon Dancer. I shared it on my timeline, as did others, but I'm surprised and also a little disappointed that this wasn't picked up by any news websites.

BREAKING NEWS: Funky Jet available for license.

The idea's kind of interesting, but the post linked to in the OP is embarrassing in so many ways. Like, every sentence.

[Pretas]

The idea's kind of interesting, but the post linked to in the OP is embarrassing in so many ways. Like, every sentence.

This thread was not intended as an apology for HG101's opinions or writing standards, I would not expect Kotaku or Joystiq to take an interest in the news, and I do not think that Cannon Dancer is better than Strider.

[jepjepjep]

"The last stage is an incoherent, poorly designed rush-job. Seemingly unable to think of a plausible way to increase the difficulty, Mitchell instead recycle almost every boss in the game - two for a third time - and place them on awkward slopes and planes so that you struggle to land accurate blows. Defeat the first two while taking care to avoid random falling cars and trucks that have managed to find their way into some kind of heavenly subspace, and you fight an infuriating shadow image of yourself, where consultation of a guide is absolutely necessary to figure out how to effectively retaliate in a testingly drawn-out fashion.

After that you're popped into an arena to fight three previous bosses in unison. There's no structure, each doing its thing on random AI and darting about the screen, leaving you to unleash those stored up special attacks and be done with it. Thankfully the last boss is far better executed, and, while perhaps too easy, is nowhere near as easy as Strider's Meiou."

I don't agree with this at all. The last stage is structured very tightly, and as in Strider, you have to have a plan to handle each section or you'll get ripped to shreds if you try to just improvise. You have to bait the falling cars at the right time to get them out of the way (first take care of the fire dancers, then bait the car/truck). The Fake fight is really cool, one of the best in the game. The sliding throw is your friend; you can't attack directly since he's fully powered up and his kicking range is greater than yours, but if you slide and time it so that you throw him just as he lands into range, it's 100% safe. All of the bosses have patterns and you can come up with strategies to handle them, though they're not obvious. Sometimes you have to place your options to attack from a safe distance. There's a little bit of gradius syndrome in that if you lose all of your shadows, you're fucked. Strider has a boss rush on the last stage too so that's not really a fair criticism. Which bosses do you encounter 3 times, I thought it was only twice for all of them? I'll admit the three-on-one gangbang is a little to chaotic and I end up bombing there every time, but someone has figured out the strategies (the world record is nomiss, nobomb).

I thought Stage 4 was pretty challenging too, much harder than Strider's stage 4, but the lack of checkpoints makes it easy to get through.

I bought an Osman PCB because I too believed it had the potential to be a masterpiece.

Give it some more time, man. It really is a worthy sequel to Strider.

Osman is a solid 10.

Fixed that typo for you.


Have any of you guys seem the interview from the DVD? I'm really interested in that one.

[Skykid]

Osman is a solid 10.

Fixed that typo for you.

Although I think (hope) this is slightly tongue-in-cheek I'd really like to see you justify Osman as a 10 in a real-terms breakdown. I think you would struggle considerably. An 8 is a good score toward the top of a 10 digit scale. I can count the games in existence on one hand that would qualify a 10 - a perfect score - and neither Osman or Strider is one of them.

I bought an Osman PCB because I too believed it had the potential to be a masterpiece.

Give it some more time, man. It really is a worthy sequel to Strider.

It's a really great sequel. I've given it a lot of time, to the point where I'd breeze through to the last stage in ten minutes only to constantly be chopped down by a very unusual layout. It was when fighting the shadow boss for the umpteenth time that eventually I thought, "no, this really will require a youtube technique to figure out the pattern, or else I'll just keep starting all over again." And lo and behold, it did. When I saw the technique for the boss: how tight, risky and tentative you need to play, and over such a long duration to keep landing your hits and getting away again, I wasn't sure how to take it on. Then I saw another method where you camp in a safe spot and tap the attack button until you win (?)

I have no problem with the finale being challenging, I just feel it's a little out of proportion with the rest of the game. Strider's last stage is difficult proportionately to the penultimate one.

With regard to some of your other comments:

The fake fight is one of the best in the game once you nail it - something which will require you to run the length of the game far too many times to achieve unless you consult a tech video, and even then, far more stringent than even the final boss. Why wouldn't you use the safe spot exploit?

The game has an odd difficulty scale. Stage four is a clear example: You can cut out nearly the entire opening swamp section simply by bouncing quickly between the pinball orbs, but then in the second half you have to deal with a maze of absolute precision to reach Euro-Gam with enough power ups to fight him.

There's also a fair bit of boss recycling:

The stage one boss is also the boss of stage 4, albeit with a different pattern of attack. You then fight him a third time about two minutes later on the final stage, only now it's on a slope so you can't hit him very easily.

You fight the three henchmen bosses at seperate points, but then are required to re-fight one on stage four by warping to one of their previous stages. You then fight two a second time and one a third on the last stage's battle royale - the game's worst fight IMO because everyone I've ever seen 1LC the game always uses bombs here. Someone may have achieved a no miss no bomb, but I'm not sure that excuses just throwing three bosses with very random actions at you at the same time. Then again perhaps you're expected to bomb here, I don't know.

You mentioned Strider's boss rush as a comparison? You mean the dinosaur before Meiou? Apart from two gravity rooms, which are slightly different and not bosses, that's all I can think of, so I don't understand your reference.

There's no point in labouring this too much. I bought the game, played the game, and really, really like the game! I'm just not sure it's a masterpiece 10/10...

EDIT: Some edits were made to this post since I have changed some opinion on it!

[jepjepjep]

Actually, there are six stages, not five. You face one of the three rivals at the end of stage 3 (desert), 4 (pirate ship), and the third at the midboss of stage 5 (before the laser section, where you can choose which environment to fight in). You then face them all at once at the end of stage 6, you don't fight any of them three times.

Stage 5 boss (Euro-Gam) is different than Gamran (Stage 1, Stage 6). Gamran is much harder in Stage 6, but that's the point, you have to use the shadow mechanic.

Strider's stage 5 boss rush includes the gravity core, the midboss guy with the missile launcher, the gorilla + brontosaurus, the stage 4 boss dino guy, then you hitch a ride on oroborous which you have to kill before Meio.

I think it's one of the best arcade action games, up there with strider, but tastes are subjective so I can understand that it doesn't impress you as much.

[Skykid]

Okay six stages: you fight each of the henchmen once, then you fight one again on the warp (stg 5) and then all three together on stage six - meaning one has been recycled 3 times.

Euro Gamran is still Gamran with tweaks to make him fucking frustrating and deserved of a smartbomb. Any way you look at it that boss is recycled 3 times, with the last iteration being a test of patience if ever there was one.

Yes I forgot about the Gorilla sentry before the stage four dinosaur boss (he goes down so quick it slipped my mind). Which is the brontosaurus? The gravity cores aren't bosses, they're just rooms really.

In Osman it's the actual end of stage bosses that are recycled, not midbosses or oversized enemies.

I think it's one of the best arcade action games, up there with strider, but tastes are subjective so I can understand that it doesn't impress you as much.

There's plenty about Osman that impresses me. There's a lot of awesome in it. But I'm not blind and not prepared to overlook its failings based on its mechanics, graphical prowess or unique atmosphere. The bare facts remain: the challenge is a mess, the game is too easy to zip through, bombs overpowered, boss patterns loose and overly randomised, last stage is horribly miscalculated to the point that there's a coin trap stink about it. I don't even mind about the subpar music, it's more the disappointment that Yotsui didn't properly finish or refine the game. I'm most pissed off that Osman's expansive repertoire is barely usable anywhere except the first stage. The rest is spent in novelty set pieces where you're forced to keep moving or sliding under obstacles, or limited in movement where you just get to jump and kick or spring off pinball pods.

Like I said, a good arcade action game. Lack of polish makes it fall quite a way short of masterpiece. I've played many, many superior and tighter arcade action productions. Shit I could pull all sorts out the bag - Sunsetriders, Gunforce 2 - that are finished to a superior standard.

[jepjepjep]

Okay six stages: you fight each of the henchmen once, then you fight one again on the warp (stg 5) and then all three together on stage six - meaning one has been recycled 3 times.

Up until stage 5, you've only faced two, the third is in stage 5, so none are faced 3 times.

Euro Gamran is still Gamran with tweaks to make him fucking frustrating and deserved of a smartbomb. Any way you look at it that boss is recycled 3 times, with the last iteration being a test of patience if ever there was one.

Euro-Gam fight is very different than Gamran. Both in the way he attacks and in the way you have to approach him.

Yes I forgot about the Gorilla sentry before the stage four dinosaur boss (he goes down so quick it slipped my mind). Which is the brontosaurus? The gravity cores aren't bosses, they're just rooms really.

In Osman it's the actual end of stage bosses that are recycled, not midbosses or oversized enemies.

The brontosaurus comes from behind when you face the gorilla in the boss rush. The oroborous and dino-boss are both end stage bosses that are recycled in strider. You also have the upside-down room with the karate girls that are recycled from an end stage boss.

There's plenty about Osman that impresses me. There's a lot of awesome in it. But I'm not blind and not prepared to overlook its failings based on its mechanics, graphical prowess or unique atmosphere. The bare facts remain: the challenge is a mess, the game is too easy to zip through, bombs overpowered, boss patterns loose and overly randomised, last stage is horribly miscalculated to the point that there's a coin trap stink about it. I don't even mind about the subpar music, it's more the disappointment that Yotsui didn't properly finish or refine the game. I'm most pissed off that Osman's expansive repertoire is barely usable anywhere except the first stage. The rest is spent in novelty set pieces where you're forced to keep moving or sliding under obstacles, or limited in movement where you just get to jump and kick or spring off pinball pods.

It sounds like you're rushing in without fully utilizing the mechanics in Osman. The fact that there are no checkpoints and you have three really strong bombs per life allow you to zip through the hard parts without much trouble. Only in the last stage, you can't do that because of the checkpoints. The last stage really isn't much more difficult than the rest. If you could continue from where you die, you'd breeze through it.

Most of your criticisms can also be argued in the case of Strider (consider the smartbomb to be the equivalent of the saucer options--way overpowered). Strider also is set-piece after set-piece where you have to know where to position yourself in each scenario, when to attack, jump, slide, etc.. Osman is just an extension of the same formula.

Like I said, a good arcade action game. Lack of polish makes it fall quite a way short of masterpiece. I've played many, many superior and tighter arcade action productions. Shit I could pull all sorts out the bag - Sunsetriders, Gunforce 2 - that are finished to a superior standard.

I can respect that, but tastes are subjective. I'd take Cannon Dancer over Sunsetriders or Gunforce 2 any time.

[Mortificator]

The idea's kind of interesting, but the post linked to in the OP is embarrassing in so many ways. Like, every sentence.

This thread was not intended as an apology for HG101's opinions or writing standards, I would not expect Kotaku or Joystiq to take an interest in the news, and I do not think that Cannon Dancer is better than Strider.

Oh, I know you were just opening a point of discussion and not endorsing the blog. I wasn't poking fun at you, just it.

feel free to use anything on this page, the photo is mine, while the in-game images were taken from various websites

[szycag]

I couldn't remember Gamshara's name for the longest time and tried to tell people about it. Just "some japanese Cabal-like but from the 2000's". Someone brought it to a Missouri shmupmeet. The gameplay in that is so incredible and that youtube video of it going around doesn't do the beautiful graphics and smooth animation justice. I would buy any system it got ported to.

[Pretas]

Let's hope that DotEmu doesn't take an interest in these licenses, or that someone else gets to them first.

[Skykid]

Up until stage 5, you've only faced two, the third is in stage 5, so none are faced 3 times.

I must be remembering wrong then. Is it that you face the clawed guy in Stage 5's warp and it's just the background that's recycled? To be honest there's so little strategy against those bosses I can barely distinguish between them, there's no idiosyncrasies to the way they need to be defeated - you just kind of rail at them in between their darting around and flurrying.

So they all only get recycled once for the 3 on one melee?

Euro-Gam fight is very different than Gamran. Both in the way he attacks and in the way you have to approach him.

Yes, I said that... but it's still the same boss, just with incredibly frustrating new speeds and ranged attacks. And after you defeat him on stage five you then fight him again two minutes later on stage six, but on a fucking slope. It's one of the most annoying hit and run battles in the game.

The brontosaurus comes from behind when you face the gorilla in the boss rush. The oroborous and dino-boss are both end stage bosses that are recycled in strider. You also have the upside-down room with the karate girls that are recycled from an end stage boss.

Right hold on. My memory must be going here. That brontosaurus isn't a boss is it? The Oroborous isn't fought twice, the second time it's just a transport to Meiou. I don't remember ever fighting the Kung Fu sisters twice, only at the end of stage 2 on the airship. You don't fight them again at any point, you'll need to clarify what you mean.

It sounds like you're rushing in without fully utilizing the mechanics in Osman. The fact that there are no checkpoints and you have three really strong bombs per life allow you to zip through the hard parts without much trouble. Only in the last stage, you can't do that because of the checkpoints. The last stage really isn't much more difficult than the rest. If you could continue from where you die, you'd breeze through it.

Sorry, I can't agree at all. I've fully utilised every mechanic required to get me through Osman. As I said, I coast to the last stage with little resistance. Your attack repertoire isn't required at all beyond jumping, kicking and the occasional slide to get you there either, because you're either being forced to keep moving, like on the first half of the battleship stage, or confined, when you're surfing the waves in its latter half. Stage five just requires bouncing through and a quick enemy shredding.

The latter half of stage five and all of stage six are on a different level entirely. Stage six in particular. Checkpoints are clearly just there to slow your progress down since everything else up to that point is way too easy. Let's be realistic: they're there to make money. The reason for their implementation is entirely cheap, since you have to fight the fire boss a second time, Gamran a third, then the shadow boss, then the three recycled bosses, then the final boss - and it's made to be as awkward as possible by sticking you on annoying angles.

In basic terms there's nothing wrong with learning the stage, sure - but I'm not playing on mame with save states. I'm doing this shit coin by coin on a no continue basis, and it's fucking hair tearing. You reach the last stage, sometimes on a no miss, only to hit a wall of intentional awkwardness and abstruse boss patterns that require you to keep starting all over again. I can do this many times: I know the process of learning a game. But it gets to the point where I run out of patience. I absolutely loathe being forced to consult a youtube video to see what I'm missing, and then even more pissed when I found out I'm not missing anything and the whole affair is in-fact completely purposely awkward and on an entirely different level to everything else in the game up to that point. The finale is a total miss hit - an error in design and a poor attempt to rake in a few more quarters for the operator.

Most of your criticisms can also be argued in the case of Strider (consider the smartbomb to be the equivalent of the saucer options--way overpowered). Strider also is set-piece after set-piece where you have to know where to position yourself in each scenario, when to attack, jump, slide, etc.. Osman is just an extension of the same formula.

Not at all. I've always said Strider is damn easy once you learn it - but the process, the fluidity and the completeness of the game is far superior. It does not jar, it's assured throughout. Osman doesn't have that sense of assuredness. Beyond its positive aspects the underlying game doesn't fulfil its promise in the same way, and nor does it ever reach the same highs. In-fact compared to everything that takes place in Strider, Osman is relatively subdued.

I can respect that, but tastes are subjective. I'd take Cannon Dancer over Sunsetriders or Gunforce 2 any time.

I couldn't. Those two games, which are just two of many I could have cited as examples, offer a richness, adventure and variety that Osman doesn't parallel. They're more fulfilling action experiences and they don't attempt to cheap you out at the final hurdle - just challenge you proportionately.

Like you said, tastes are subjective and you obviously have a thing for Osman for whatever reason, but for me it's not a PCB I'm crazy about rushing back to when I know how it falls down right at the end. It's a shame.

[BIL]

Right hold on. My memory must be going here. That brontosaurus isn't a boss is it? The Oroborous isn't fought twice, the second time it's just a transport to Meiou. I don't remember ever fighting the Kung Fu sisters twice, only at the end of stage 2 on the airship. You don't fight them again at any point, you'll need to clarify what you mean.

I think some confusion is resulting over the dinosaur species. It's a Tyrannosaurus that reappears in the stage 5 boss/midboss rush, as pincer backup for Mecha Pon (robo monkey). In stage 4 the T-rexes are just heavy enemies and appear en masse. Brontos are harmless, useful for navigation and never seen again after st4 boss Lago nukes them and everything else in sight during his entrance.

Tongpoo and co are strictly optional in stage 5. They're in the upper left of the inverse gravity/drill area, in a secluded room. If you don't go looking for them you'll never see them. They're all in black this time but act identically, AFAIK.

Stage 5 boss rematch tally, in order:

Tongpoo (Chun Li sisters, stage 2 bosses; optional)
Gravity core (stage 3 midboss)
Novo (laser grid generator, stage 1 midboss)
Solo (flying bounty hunter, stage 2 midboss)
Mecha Pon (robo monkey, stage 2 midboss)
Lago (robot dinosaur, stage 4 boss)
Ouroboros (soviet robocentipede, stage 1 boss)

[jepjepjep]

I must be remembering wrong then. Is it that you face the clawed guy in Stage 5's warp and it's just the background that's recycled? To be honest there's so little strategy against those bosses I can barely distinguish between them, there's no idiosyncrasies to the way they need to be defeated - you just kind of rail at them in between their darting around and flurrying.

The order that you face the henchmen is determined by the path that you take after the sand section. It branches into three choices, and then later into two choices. By the time you reach the stage 5 midboss you would have faced 2/3 henchmen but which ones can vary. The claw guy can be taken out with the slide/throw attack. The robot-master guy you can rush in for direct face-kicking damage but have to be aware to dodge the flying robot limbs. The girl will mess you up if you try to get up close and personal, it's best to place your shadows as she comes towards you and move away to attack from a safe range. There's some randomness to their attacks/movement but each one needs a different strategy.

The Euro-Gam fight is great too once you figure out how to approach it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sr5WTc3 ... JhqQP-DlOg

I think some confusion is resulting over the dinosaur species. It's a Tyrannosaurus that reappears in the stage 5 boss rush.

You're right. Little tyranosaurus appears behind you while facing the robo-monkey and robo-Tyrannosaurus (Lago) comes after. Must've been thinking about Revenge of Shinobi.

[BIL]

Made me think of Revenge's "this is totally not godzilla, we swear!" dinosaur, too.

[jepjepjep]

LOL, those were the glory days of video gaming. Rambo, Terminator, Spiderman, Godzilla, Batman.

[trap15]

I would love to do this... I wish I had an 'in' though. I need to talk with some people.

[cools]

They should just sell the ROMs

[D]

Yes, please port Mitchell's arcade library.
Proper ports of Pang, ps1 version has the right side and the bottom cut off and the final game is missing. I Love Mitchell's style and gameplay. Loads of great titles

[Skykid]

Huh, Tong Poo are hidden in a secluded room on stage five? I never knew.