HDTV + XRGB-mini <- What TV works best?

[Windfish]

Hello, everyone. I am wondering what qualities I should look for in a HDTV that would make the HDTV + XRGB-mini retro-gaming setup optimal. Any particular models in mind? My dream is to find a TV that has these qualities on Craigslist.

Any ideas?

[blizzz]

The TV should have low input lag and no problems with 720p content scaled to 1080p.

Have you checked this thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48662 ?

[Windfish]

Thanks, blizzz, for the link. Reading it right now.

[Windfish]

Did a search for the set recommended by Fudoh, but I think it's a European model. Is there an American counterpart?

[Xyga]

If you check further in the thread we discuss US models or alternative sourcing.

This years' model is the W7, available as an import through stores like NCIXUS, or get a W8.

[Windfish]

Thanks, Xyga. It seems the W7 and W8 introduce more lag than the W6, which is a problem since the Framemeister introduces its own lag, no?

Quick question: could you tell me if this is the same model Fudoh reviewed:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/4614070788.html

[Xyga]

Actually the W7 introduces even a little less lag than the W6.

But we're talking about the 42" models, the 32" (both W6 & W7) have more lag.

Basically the one you want is the 42" W7 (about 14ms lag), officially available in Canada, or imported in the US;
http://store.sony.ca/42-w700-led-intern ... Series-TVs
Import store;
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94164 (awful price)

There are other 'W series' models available in the US, although a bit more laggy (about 20+ms) the W8 is the best alternative;
http://store.sony.com/50-diag-w800b-pre ... ony-HD-TVs

If the Sonys are too expensive, check last year's very cheap LG 32LN5300 (28ms lag, also available in 39" and 42"), or this year's LB6300 series;
http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-42 ... =lg+lb6300
The 42LB6300 is a good gaming TV, input lag (32ms) isn't as good as the Sonys but motion blur is a bit less noticeable.
It's got an IPS panel (Sonys have VA) which are a little better for gaming, but not for movies (dark content will look grayish instead of black).

Still, keep in mind the Mini produces about 24ms of lag, which will add-up to the TV's.
This is one of the reasons people like the W7/W8, or go for smaller - but much faster - pc monitors.

[Fudoh]

This is one of the reasons people like the W7/W8, or go for smaller - but much faster - pc monitors.

I'm still angry at BenQ for screwing up the input lag of the 32" 1440p model

Wasn't there another 32" 1440p - using the same panel - maybe from AOC or Acer ? Any reviews for that one ?

[eightbitminiboss]

Actually the W7 introduces even a little less lag than the W6.

But we're talking about the 42" models, the 32" (both W6 & W7) have more lag.

Basically the one you want is the 42" W7 (about 14ms lag), officially available in Canada, or imported in the US;
http://store.sony.ca/42-w700-led-intern ... Series-TVs
Import store;
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94164 (awful price)

There are other 'W series' models available in the US, although a bit more laggy (about 20+ms) the W8 is the best alternative;
http://store.sony.com/50-diag-w800b-pre ... ony-HD-TVs

If the Sonys are too expensive, check last year's very cheap LG 32LN5300 (28ms lag, also available in 39" and 42"), or this year's LB6300 series;
http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-42 ... =lg+lb6300
The 42LB6300 is a good gaming TV, input lag (32ms) isn't as good as the Sonys but motion blur is a bit less noticeable.
It's got an IPS panel (Sonys have VA) which are a little better for gaming, but not for movies (dark content will look grayish instead of black).

Still, keep in mind the Mini produces about 24ms of lag, which will add-up to the TV's.
This is one of the reasons people like the W7/W8, or go for smaller - but much faster - pc monitors.

I picked up the KDL50W800B linked there last month. Great TV.

[Xyga]

Wasn't there another 32" 1440p - using the same panel - maybe from AOC or Acer ? Any reviews for that one ?

It's mostly the same as the BenQ BL3200PT; http://prohardver.hu/teszt/acer_b326hul ... kulso.html

For the lag on 1440p monitors, well, blame the stupid DisplayPort trend that brought engineers to adopt a barbarian full 1 frame buffering design on all friggin inputs.
And they're all doing the same.
Idiots.

[Windfish]

Thanks, Xyga. This may seem like a newb question: if I import from Canada, do I have to worry about voltage converters and the like?

[Xyga]

Well in the case of NCIXUS it's stock they seem to already have in their US warehouse, I don't suppose they would sell unusable stuff to their US consumers, but you can always ask them.

PS: Also triple-check their returns policy. Or give up and buy a W8.

[Windfish]

Hmm, I think this is the same model you recommended, Xyga, but it's a 50'. Can you confirm for me that it's the same model, and if it is, does it fare as well in terms of lag as the 42' you recommended?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-50-cla ... &cp=1&lp=2

[Xyga]

Looks like it's the W7 in 50" size and silver/aluminum frame, it should have the same input lag as the 42" (about 14ms).

This is probably another import model as it's not listed on Sony USA.

Awesome. Kind of huge though.
I don't know about Best Buy's returns policy but once again: triple check.
They probably bough some stock somewhere and won't always have this model listed.

[Windfish]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I agree that it is too big. There other models available, such as this one:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-bravia ... &cp=1&lp=4

It is the KDL40W600B, but I cannot seem to find any information on how much input lag to expect on it.

[Fudoh]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I agree that it is too big

there is no "too big" when it comes to TVs.

[Xyga]

Unfortunately the W600B doesn't have the qualities of the W7, W8 and up.
Input lag is much higher, IIRC about 32ms or even more.

[Windfish]

Hmm, then I may have to go for the 50' display... But I would like to know for sure what the input lag is on it, perhaps there are differences between NA/Europe sets.

[Xyga]

Usually with Sony the differences between NA/EU/Asia models are only minor, the core specs and performances remain the same everywhere.

No one tested the 50" W7 (it appears to be rather new actually) but from what I read it seems to have a 100/120Hz panel with enabled MotionFlow settings.
Well, on the specs sheet it's identical to the W8, minus the 3D.

So it could have the same lag as the 42" (14ms), or the same as the W8 (22ms), or some figure in between, but I doubt it will have more.

[Xyga]

Wait a minute, this is what we get for not reading reviews during summer.

I might have to take back what I said about the 32" W7's input lag being higher, because according to this - quite late - review that I wasn't expecting anymore, it's the same as the 42" W7;

http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-w70 ... view.10458

I read before that unlike the 32W6 it was under 32ms, but I didn't expect it to be sub-1 frame !
If their measurement was done right then this is great news (at least for people who want a smaller TV).

PS: EU/UK model KDL-32W705B, Asia/AU/Canada model KDL-32W700B.
Import US: http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94163 (still monstrously expensive)

[Windfish]

I went into my local Best Buy to see the 50W700B, and it looks nice. Of course, they didn't know how much input lag it had. Going to have to find out what the precise number is before I buy it, if I buy it.

Thanks, Xyga, for that update. If only the 32'' sets were available here, I'd pick them up. In the mean time, I am going to have to research and be patient. If you find out anything, please let me know!

[Xyga]

Well you can still get a 32" from NCIXUS, but it's way overpriced.

[Windfish]

Well you can still get a 32" from NCIXUS, but it's way overpriced.

Yup, don't want to get a bad deal. Gonna have to be patient and continue the search.

[Fudoh]

I went into my local Best Buy to see the 50W700B, and it looks nice. Of course, they didn't know how much input lag it had. Going to have to find out what the precise number is before I buy it, if I buy it.

The set's basically identical to last year's W685 unit. It's a tiny little bit slower than the 42" model, but still under 10ms. Absolutely great set if don't want or need full motionflow or local dimming which is only available on the higher end models.

[Windfish]

I went into my local Best Buy to see the 50W700B, and it looks nice. Of course, they didn't know how much input lag it had. Going to have to find out what the precise number is before I buy it, if I buy it.

The set's basically identical to last year's W685 unit. It's a tiny little bit slower than the 42" model, but still under 10ms. Absolutely great set if don't want or need full motionflow or local dimming which is only available on the higher end models.

Thanks a lot for the info! Out of curiosity, how do you know this? I tried search on Google for a longtime and had no luck.

[Xyga]

@Fudoh: you mean from the top bar ?

[Windfish]

Top bar? What do you mean?

[Fudoh]

doesn't matter which bar you use (he's refering to Leo's handheld lag tester), as long as you calculate the proper delay based on your readings. You will always run into displays which show the same delay on all bars, so switching between them isn't really a solution. You have to do a comparison with a CRT you get your baseline.

[Xyga]

That's right I always forget about that.
The 42W6 is rather 8ms for instance and that's written right in your review. ^^

[Windfish]

Just bought the W700B! Thanks for all the help!