Sony CRT bright colors start too bright then fade

[BazookaBen]

So I just picked up a KV-27fs12 since it was $10 and appeared to be in good shape. I played some Wipeout HD to start, and I noticed that when the green text from the game would pop up on the screen, it would start off way too bright, then fade to the correct color intensity. It's also really noticeable in bright whites, where they will start off way too bright and "settle" once they've been on screen for a second.

I know I'm going to have to have to go into the service menu to correct the "color push" that most of these sets have, where bright reds and greens are too intense and lacking in contrast. Do you think fixing the color push will also effect this variable-brightness issue? Or is it a G2 voltage problem? Something else?

And should I expect the color on this thing to even get near my PVM, even after adjustments in the service menu? It's definitely not right now.

[Ed Oscuro]

I get something similar with whites (so all guns at the same time) on my 27fs120, and still haven't gotten it sorted. However, I only get that when the set is first turned on, which doesn't seem too uncommon for sets. If you get that all the time, then that does sound like a definite problem. Be interested to hear what folks say here.

[neorichieb1971]

Doubt the service menu will help.

Most stuff regarding intensity to colors is attributed to the capacitors. I would imagine the power going to them is not stable causing the brightness and fading or the charge in the capacitors is being lost somehow. I'm only working with theory though and since both of you have similar symptoms I would say its got nothing to do with settings at all. If you changed the settings it would get brighter or dimmer but it would not stop the fluctuations.

[Ed Oscuro]

I really need to do my homework and ask around some of the CRT-specific forums. My set's bright white bands on startup do seem to me to be related to capacitors, as you suggest, but the set is recent enough that this seems very strange. And it could also well be that this is related to too-high voltages (which of course can be adjusted from the service menu, though I don't know the wisdom of adjusting these without an oscilloscope to check the actual voltages).

[Einzelherz]

My junky Philips CRT does the exact same thing. I notice it a lot in FF games with the white text on blue background.

[BazookaBen]

Ok, I've realized what the issue really is, it's not that the brightness is changing, the sharpness is changing. Bright text is more blurry than dark text. Is this an age related issue, an overdriven voltage issue, or a normal issue with consumer sets?

Another question: I was able to improve the colors by changing the RGB drive and cutoff settings in the service menu, but it's still nowhere near as good as my PVM

For example, I'm using these color bars to calibrate, running on my PS3 over component:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php

On the consumer set, the right 4-5 columns in the colored bars are hard to distinquish . On my PVM, and can see them all clearly, maybe the last two merge. White is fine on both, but better on the PVM of course.

Has anyone been able to get a consumer set close to a PVM in the contrast department? At least closer than mine?

[Pasky]

Sounds like the caps are being charged from the sudden power surge from power on and slowly bleeding off and possibly not holding as much farads as they did when they were brand new. Perhaps it's time to recap? I've heard Sony PVM's (if that's what's being discussed here) are a pain in the ass to re-cap though.

[BazookaBen]

Sounds like the caps are being charged from the sudden power surge from power on and slowly bleeding off and possibly not holding as much farads as they did when they were brand new. Perhaps it's time to recap? I've heard Sony PVM's (if that's what's being discussed here) are a pain in the ass to re-cap though.

You misread my post a little. I'm trying to get a consumer trinitron looking like my PVM. The PVM is fine.

[bobrocks95]

Well, I doubt you'll be able to get a consumer television to look just as good as a professional one, especially since you've got one of the cheaper, earlier consumer sets. You could calibrate it closer with an oscilloscope or using some of the techniques in the service manual (for instance I hadn't thought of their method of calibrating white balance).

[BazookaBen]

Well, I doubt you'll be able to get a consumer television to look just as good as a professional one, especially since you've got one of the cheaper, earlier consumer sets. You could calibrate it closer with an oscilloscope or using some of the techniques in the service manual (for instance I hadn't thought of their method of calibrating white balance).

This is the model from 1999 or 2000. Do you think the 2003 era sets will look that much better, assuming usage was about the same?

[gray117]

I've heard Sony PVM's (if that's what's being discussed here) are a pain in the ass to re-cap though.

Really just because of the sheer number of caps - similar (but even worse than) most regular crt tv's unfortunately (as opposed to most relatively simple arcade monitor chassis)... although a schematic might help narrow down the likely suspects (in either case) if you only want to replace a few (best to simply replace all that you can ofc)...

It's likely you should be able to improve your high and low end colour drive/gain to somewhat compensate. Replacing capacitors will likely be the only way to get a nice stable balance, and/or mitigate the issue reoccurring. All things being equal [i.e. purity/physical faults/rgb connection], you should be able get static colours close to pvm if re-capping, although performance [particularly across rapidly/varied images] may never be as consistent/stable as the pvm.

[BazookaBen]

I've heard Sony PVM's (if that's what's being discussed here) are a pain in the ass to re-cap though.

Really just because of the sheer number of caps - similar (but even worse than) most regular crt tv's unfortunately (as opposed to most relatively simple arcade monitor chassis)... although a schematic might help narrow down the likely suspects (in either case) if you only want to replace a few (best to simply replace all that you can ofc)...

It's likely you should be able to improve your high and low end colour drive/gain to somewhat compensate. Replacing capacitors will likely be the only way to get a nice stable balance, and/or mitigate the issue reoccurring. All things being equal [i.e. purity/physical faults/rgb connection], you should be able get static colours close to pvm if re-capping, although performance [particularly across rapidly/varied images] may never be as consistent/stable as the pvm.

Would the caps closer (in the schematic) to the flyback and tube be the ones more likely to effect the oversaturated high-end colors?

This isn't really something I'm going to tackle soon though, as most 16 bit games look fine. They don't have the color depth for this to be a problem. I definitely noticed with wipeout HD though (one of the best looking games in existence). It look way better on the PVM. The color response was way more linear.

[gray117]

No real idea myself - I'd venture mayhap something close to the neck board if I was betting, but it could be also be a combination - it's more of tolerance thing than something being outright broken (yet ... you may even find service menu settings will suffice for a good few years yet.

[bobrocks95]

Well, I doubt you'll be able to get a consumer television to look just as good as a professional one, especially since you've got one of the cheaper, earlier consumer sets. You could calibrate it closer with an oscilloscope or using some of the techniques in the service manual (for instance I hadn't thought of their method of calibrating white balance).

This is the model from 1999 or 2000. Do you think the 2003 era sets will look that much better, assuming usage was about the same?

If you got another FS model (which I'm assuming yours is since the model you wrote doesn't exist) it probably wouldn't look that much better. If you upgraded to a newer FV or XBR you should notice an improvement. Try and find one locally and see for yourself, as I don't have any professional displays to compare to.

[BazookaBen]

If you got another FS model (which I'm assuming yours is since the model you wrote doesn't exist) it probably wouldn't look that much better. If you upgraded to a newer FV or XBR you should notice an improvement. Try and find one locally and see for yourself, as I don't have any professional displays to compare to.

Thanks, I didn't know FV was supposed to be superior to FS. There have probably been some FV's in the area.

And here's the model I have, misspelled in the OP.

https://docs.sony.com/release/kv27fs12.pdf

[bobrocks95]

Keep in mind it's probably more a general rule of thumb than absolute fact, i.e. generally speaking an FV will be better than an FS. I do know the FV310 is generally considered the absolute best consumer 480i Trinitron. FV300 is close but lacks the high-voltage regulator that stops whites from blooming/distorting.