Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

What makes do you have? Always interested to know what models / manufacturers are prevalent in other parts of the world (if my assumption you're in a certain European country is correct).

[mchay]

What makes do you have? Always interested to know what models / manufacturers are prevalent in other parts of the world (if my assumption you're in a certain European country is correct).

Yes, these monitors are located in Denmark. They are Sony, JVC, Barco, Panasonic and Hitachi - so a mixed bag of brands. All the 14" are Sony PVM-1450QM.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'd guess that Barco and Hitachi are the ones most likely to be considered exotic here (but actually even JVC counts as "exotic" for gamers, due to less awareness!). Hope they are all pretty good units!

[mchay]

... Hope they are all pretty good units!

You and me both

[niall]

Yes, I am convinced that the 240p jitter is a design flaw on the BVM-20F1* and BVM-14F** models. I now have 5 of these monitors and they all do this, even a 14F5U with less than 5000 hours on it. The D20 does not do have this issue, nor does the older BVM-1911.

What happens when you degauss them? I've just noticed one of my D20s seems to do this, though it is tated and audibly buzzes (why this one is tated).

However, if I hit degauss it stops shimmering and looks perfect - but only during its 10 second degauss cycle. Feels like something needs replacing or fixing, so I'm just putting it out there in case it helps anyone diagnose theirs.

[cyborc]

Just picked up this little beast today...stay tuned...

[Xan]

Today I got a Wii2HDMI (not Neoya branded though, seems to be some Chinese knockoff) and as expected, the quality is quite hideous from close distance. But it becomes rather acceptable when sitting away almost 3 meters. This is on a 23" PC monitor in my case.

Colors definitely are a tad duller than with RGB on my BVM and the white screens during area transitions in Skyward Sword look "dirty" instead of bright white. Still it's a quite usable solution when enough distance is kept from the screen, but I still stand by my opinion that CRTs are better suited for the Wii.

[Bancho]

Just picked up this little beast today...stay tuned...

What size and model is it cybroc? I am watching a 17" model at the moment. Only problem is that its SDI only, I would need to get a RGB add-on card for it. It does come with the 16:9 add on bezel mind.

What inputs does your monitor have?

[cyborc]

It's a dt-v1710. It came with the rgb/component card. I'll have a more detailed post with pics hopefully later tonight.

[Skips]

It's a dt-v1710. It came with the rgb/component card. I'll have a more detailed post with pics hopefully later tonight.

I bought one of these this week brand new however I ended up sending it back because it did not work right with the RGB NES, SNES, or Neo-Geo. Sync stripper or not the picture curled at the top (to the left on the NES and to the right on the Neo-Geo) or would have some slight jitter/wobble in the picture (SNES). HD on it however looked phenomenal. I may have just had a bad Component card but since it had a warranty I did not want to risk it. If it were not for the sync issues I had with it it would have been the perfect all around gaming monitor under 20 inches. Picture wise it beat out my PVM-20L5. Its just a damn shame those sync issues ruined it.

Besides the sync issue the only minor issue with this monitor is the corners are kind of soft. That's not a biggie though.

Here are some pictures of mine running before I returned it.

[cyborc]

It's a dt-v1710. It came with the rgb/component card. I'll have a more detailed post with pics hopefully later tonight.

I bought one of these this week brand new however I ended up sending it back because it did not work right with the RGB NES, SNES, or Neo-Geo. Sync stripper or not the picture curled at the top (to the left on the NES and to the right on the Neo-Geo) or would have some slight jitter/wobble in the picture (SNES). HD on it however looked phenomenal. I may have just had a bad Component card but since it had a warranty I did not want to risk it. If it were not for the sync issues I had with it it would have been the perfect all around gaming monitor under 20 inches. Picture wise it beat out my PVM-20L5. Its just a damn shame those sync issues ruined it.

Besides the sync issue the only minor issue with this monitor is the corners are kind of soft. That's not a biggie though.

Here are some pictures of mine running before I returned it.

I'm having the jitter issue with my NES as well. I haven't really noticed any problems with my super famicom yet though. (1CHIP-01 using csync)

[Skips]

Its very slight, there is a slight wobble in the picture on my SNES, same model and sync method. The Neo-Geo however is down right ugly.

[cyborc]

Its very slight, there is a slight wobble in the picture on my SNES, same model and sync method. The Neo-Geo however is down right ugly.

ouch. I need to dig my cmvs out of storage and try it out before my return window closes...

skips, im about to PM you.

[cfx]

.

[cyborc]

Is this the type of sync-related issue an Extron RGB interface could fix?

Also I know the monitor supports RGBHV as well as RGBS. Might the RGBHV output from an LM1881 work?

Unfortunately RGBHV through the LM1881 does not solve issues with the NES. I picked up a cheap Extron RGB that should be here in a few days. Hopefully it will help.

Systems I've tested with no issues
-Japanese mega drive
-Saturn
-PS2
-Dreamcast (VGA works perfectly and looks stunning. No need for a sync stabilizer like with the 20L5)

Systems with issues
-NES with NESRGB installed. (waviness/jitter top left of screen)
-Neo Geo (curling at the top of the screen; reference skips picture a few posts up)
-Super Famicom (slight jitter, not noticeable to myself unless I'm really close to the screen)

If anyone is considering this as a primary gaming monitor, I can't recommend it if you're using an NES, Neo-Geo, or SNES. I still have another PVM that I can use with those systems. I am leaning towards keeping the monitor because it just looks so damn good. (when it's working correctly )

I will report back once I receive the extron unit and do some testing.

[Bancho]

Hows the geometry on it? Did it require much calibration? Also how did you connect the Dreamcast using VGA? I've got my eye on one at the moment. As i say it only has the SDI card installed but i have spotted a Analogue card someone is selling, but i'm undecided at the moment.

Some pics would be great

[cyborc]

Hows the geometry on it? Did it require much calibration? Also how did you connect the Dreamcast using VGA? I've got my eye on one at the moment. As i say it only has the SDI card installed but i have spotted a Analogue card someone is selling, but i'm undecided at the moment.

Some pics would be great

Geometry was virtually perfect out of the box. Geometry and screen size/position adjustments are all available on the menu. No need for a hidden service menu.

I hooked the dreamcast using a VGA to 5BNC cable.
I can take some pics later, but my photography skills leave a lot to be desired. Any particular games you'd like to see?

[Bancho]

Geometry was virtually perfect out of the box. Geometry and screen size/position adjustments are all available on the menu. No need for a hidden service menu.

I hooked the dreamcast using a VGA to 5BNC cable.
I can take some pics later, but my photography skills leave a lot to be desired. Any particular games you'd like to see?

Yeah my old JVC has perfect geometry. I'm really keen to see the DC on it if possible. Some shooters and fighters if possible as if I pick up the monitor I will use it for the DC.

[cyborc]

Here's some pics. My crappy photography and phone camera aside, hopefully this will give you an idea of what the DC in VGA looks like on the monitor.

Spoiler

[Pasky]

So you're also getting the warping issue with nes, snes and neo geo that skips had?

What about genesis and PS1? I just bought this monitor and it arrives here Friday.

[cyborc]

So you're also getting the warping issue with nes, snes and neo geo that skips had?

What about genesis and PS1? I just bought this monitor and it arrives here Friday.

I do have the same problem Skips had with the NES and Neo. The SNES is slightly jittery but the picture doesn't warp. I haven't tried PS1 yet but Genesis and PS2 work perfectly.

[Bancho]

Thanks for the pictures cyborc. Monitor looks great. One thing I noticed is the Scanlines are not so visible. It this to being run in VGA mode? I think i would use the monitor for consoles like PS2, Dreamcast and the Wii.

Have you guys noticed any component add-on card crop up often where you guys are? Here in the UK the cards can be quite expensive. I've spotted one for £70 and another for £110.... way way more than i want to be paying. I might pick up the monitor and just wait for a cheap add in card to show up.

[cyborc]

Thanks for the pictures cyborc. Monitor looks great. One thing I noticed is the Scanlines are not so visible. It this to being run in VGA mode? I think i would use the monitor for consoles like PS2, Dreamcast and the Wii.

Have you guys noticed any component add-on card crop up often where you guys are? Here in the UK the cards can be quite expensive. I've spotted one for £70 and another for £110.... way way more than i want to be paying. I might pick up the monitor and just wait for a cheap add in card to show up.

Yeah it's because it's in VGA. Here's a pic of the Saturn, so you can see what 240p looks like. There's some moire from my camera.

Spoiler

[Bancho]

Thanks for the pictures cyborc. Monitor looks great. One thing I noticed is the Scanlines are not so visible. It this to being run in VGA mode? I think i would use the monitor for consoles like PS2, Dreamcast and the Wii.

Have you guys noticed any component add-on card crop up often where you guys are? Here in the UK the cards can be quite expensive. I've spotted one for £70 and another for £110.... way way more than i want to be paying. I might pick up the monitor and just wait for a cheap add in card to show up.

Yeah it's because it's in VGA. Here's a pic of the Saturn, so you can see what 240p looks like. There's some moire from my camera.

Spoiler

Now that looks great! A Saturn is on my list of consoles to get. All being well i think i might pick it up if its the right price Thanks for your help!

[val4r]

I want to get a small-ish crt to connect my wii to, via component, for the sole purpose of playing super smash brothers melee (480p).
A screen between 12-26 Inches, a > 60hz vertical refresh rate seems desirable as well! I notice the flicker on a lot of crts!

What monitor should i get people? This seems to be the place.

[cfx]

.

[cyborc]

It can use composite video for sync. That's what the Saturn is using. In the case of the NES, like Skips, I tried using several different sync methods and they all had the same problem. Hopefully the Extron unit will help. It's supposed to arrive on Monday.

[Xan]

I want to get a small-ish crt to connect my wii to, via component, for the sole purpose of playing super smash brothers melee (480p).
A screen between 12-26 Inches, a > 60hz vertical refresh rate seems desirable as well! I notice the flicker on a lot of crts!

What monitor should i get people? This seems to be the place.

What use would a higher refresh rate be if the game runs at 60 Hz anyway?

[val4r]

What use would a higher refresh rate be if the game runs at 60 Hz anyway?

If the screen flickers faster it becomes harder to notice the flicker, don't you think?

[Fudoh]

In Europe we had 100Hz TVs starting in the mid to late 90s. They had internal digital processing and the results weren't very nice. If you get a higher-end PC CRT (Sony FW900 or similar) you can use an analogue linedoubler to output 480p in 120Hz. But wether it's worth the effort or not, that's up to you.

While 50Hz (european SD TV) flickers quite noticeably, 60Hz are already much better. That's why 120Hz TVs never catched up in the US.