Building an arcade stick

[Shatterhand]

Since I've begun owning dozens of different classic systems, I've been thinking about building a single arcade stick to use on all of them.

I've already owned a couple of arcade sticks before, custom-made by a kinda famous arcade-stick maker here in Brazil.

But I want to build this one from scratch, I really want the experience of building one.

Right now I am researching about the parts.

There are 2 known companies who make arcade parts here, their quality is basically the same and they are very easy to find around here. My previous arcade stick was all built with their parts. They are pretty cheap for us - Sticks for around US$12,00, button are like US$ 1,00. They aren't bad, but they aren't fantastic either. I've used imported arcade sticks that were a lot better (Their buttons are fine IMO, but the sticks springs are too hard, they have too much travel and they are Battops instead of Balltops, which I personally like more).

I've found only one Sanwa seller in my city, but they are selling the sticks for like US$ 65,00. They also have Seimtsu parts for a little bit less (around US$ 50,00). US$ 65,00 its a bit too steep for me, but I may part with the money if I can't find a better solution. This same store also have some parts from other companies, like this stick :


Which they claim to be a lot like the Sanwa sticks with inferior microswitches.. but they cost half the price of a Sanwa stick, and you could just change the microswitches.

Anyway, I still didn't go to the store, I am planning actually going there with a friend, take a look at the sticks, buttons, etc.

My questions are:

How much does a Sanwa stick costs in other places? Importing it may be a hassle since our mail system is awful, and I may have to pay import taxes.
This stick I posted the pic above, does anyone knows it? Is it any good?

If anyone has any other sugestions or tips, feel free to share it

[emphatic]

Must-read: http://slagcoin.com/

[Shatterhand]

Thanks for this link. There's a lot of nice info there

[Edmond Dantes]

$65 for a Sanwa stick sounds insane.

Also, just a heads-up, are you aware of the MC Cthulhu? No, it's not an evil mind-rapturing octopus, it's a PCB you can put in your arcade stick. Afterwards you can wire it up to work for any console (except the Sega Genesis last time I checked, and the X-Box 360 requires extra work for some reason).

The MC Cthulhu is sold here

[Shatterhand]

Everything game-related here in Brazil, when imported, is usually extremely expensive. I am sure you guys heard about the PS4 being released here at something like US$1600. Our import taxes are completely bonkers.

I am already thinking about importing the controller myself and hope to not get taxed.

I've heard about the MC Cthulhu, but I don't know how easy it would be to import it, and from what I understood, you'd need to also buy separate cables for different systems... and from what I had read, it has support for more "newer" systems. I want to use it on SNES, Mega-Drive, Master System, MSX... (Also on some "newer" systems it supports). I've been looking up to the wiring/pcbs/adapters I'd need to use it on every sysyem I want to use.

But a Cthulhu is not discarded yet. I just need to gather more info about it to see if its the best/cheaper solution.

The X360 controller seems to have a security chip processor on it or something like that, any Whatever->XBOX 360 controller need a X360 controller plugged to use its chip.

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Shouldn't this thread be in the hardware section?

[beatsgo]

An alternative arcade input PCB board would be the PS360+ if you're looking to use your arcade stick on "newer" consoles (PS1 and up).

From the US, Focus Attack and Paradise Arcade are stores we typically buy parts from. Or eBay if we can find them for a cheaper value.

....and yes this should be in Hardware

[shmuppyLove]

The best way to accomplish what you're trying to do is with the use of a modular external adapter system.

The simplest way is to build your joystick box with your controls mounted in it, but without a PCB inside the joystick. All the controls can either be wired directly to a connector (most commonly a DA-15 female connector) or by way of some kind of terminal block. The terminal block would go in between the controls and connector, and if you use something simple like spade or ring connectors, allows you to easily change the control layout, which you may want for different systems (assuming the joystick box is easy to get into -- something to consider when designing it).

Then, for each system you want to interface the joystick with, you build an external adapter that connects to the joystick through the DA-15 connector on one side, and has the system-specific connection on the other. This affords you the maximum flexibility in the design, as you can very simply add compatibility with any system just by building a new adapter.

Obviously you want to minimize the number of adapters needed, so you'd probably start with something like the MC Cthulhu, but there is additional complexity because, as you mentioned, you need different RJ45 interface cables for each system, which is unavoidable in any situation because each has a different connector. But you can then easily build adapters for whichever systems the Cthulhu doesn't support, like the 360 or Genesis.

It may sound complex at first, but when you break it down into smaller pieces and just focus on one thing at a time, it becomes pretty easy.

If you want to have a single set of controls to interface with any system, I don't really know of any other practical way of doing it.

[Shatterhand]

Since you seem to know what you are talking about, maybe you can clear this up to me.

Then, for each system you want to interface the joystick with, you build an external adapter that connects to the joystick through the DA-15 connector on one side, and has the system-specific connection on the other. This affords you the maximum flexibility in the design, as you can very simply add compatibility with any system just by building a new adapter.

I had thought about this, but this means I'll have to either find the connectors for all systems, or vandalize older controllers to get the connectors. Which is not that bad, but I thought that if I have to get the controllers, it would be easier to do it direct to the PCBs (though a lot messier, and would mean a lot of cables coming out from the box).
And while I know with some systems I can easily make this kind of adaptor by just correctly wiring one button/directon per connector output (Atari/MSX/Master System), others have more complex pinouts with one output having lots of different uses, multiplexers and stuff.... and I think at that point my lack of electronic knowledge will screw me

I'm still thinking about all of this, I probably won't start building anything before november or december, when I am on vacation. But I'm alread planning, buying parts, designing the layout etc so I know exactly what I am doing while I do it (Which, like I said in the OP, it's part of the experience I want to have with this little project of mine. I know people who I could pay to build this from scratch to me, but I want to learn and actually make every part of it ) Not to mention I know it will cost a little bit to do the way I want it, so if I can buy the parts during a period of time instead of all at the same time, it will certainly be easier at my wallet


And I moved the topic to the Hardware subforum. I rarely use this forum, sometimes I forget it exists, sorry 'bout that

[shmuppyLove]

I had thought about this, but this means I'll have to either find the connectors for all systems, or vandalize older controllers to get the connectors.

No other way to do it; at the end of the day, you need something that knows how to send the correct signal, and the correct connector. Whether that is a multi-system PCB like the Cthulhu (would still need to build the RJ45 cable for that system) or a system-specific padhack (already has the right connector attached).

The advantage of the Cthulhu is that you wouldn't have to padhack controller PCBs for any of the systems it supports. It's pretty comprehensive, but it doesn't cover everything.

I would really try to design this as an external solution. Trying to put 3 or 4 or 5 different PCBs inside the same arcade stick and all wired up to the same controls is a recipe for madness (and failure). You're not going to have the joystick plugged into more than one console at a time, so why would you need your controls connected to more than one PCB at a time?

[Shatterhand]

Never mind, after reading this tutorial, I am sold:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/ ... l-ver-2/p1

[Shatterhand]

I could use a MC Cthululu for all the systems I want except the Mega-Drive and Master System.

With a Mega-Drive Cable, I can add support for japanese computers (MSX/X68000/ etc) using a easy to build adapter.
A Master System cable would give me instant support for European computers (Amiga, C64, etc).

Its a shame the Cthululu doesn't support those systems. And believe it or not, Mega-Drive and Master System are not the same cable, even though they are very similar. The Mega-Drive joypad works on a Master System, but it doesn't work in a few games (And some are games I do play )

[Edmond Dantes]

Wait... what Master System games won't a Genesis controller work on?

I only have five MS games so far, and fortunately have not run into an incompatible game. I do have MS controllers that my dad found in a dumpster (don't ask, because I didn't) but I doubt they work.

[Shatterhand]

From the back of my mind, the Wonder Boy games won't work with it (which are games I *do* play). I remember there are more games that won't work.

I always found this kinda weird, since the only difference between the SMS and MD controllers pinout is the +5v in pin 5 on the MD pad, which won't go anywhere in the SMS, and the pin 7 which is used by the multiplexer and also wont do anything on a SMS AFAIK.

But in a very few games, you won't be able to control anything, is like every direction is being pressed at the same time. It happens in a real SMS or with the Power Base Converter on a real Mega-Drive.

I've been thinking about using a MC Chthulu + a Mega-Drive Padhack with a switch where I can turn on/off the +5v pin from the Mega-Drive (I am not sure this is will make it work with the every Master System game, but it makes it safe to use it in a Commodore Amiga/C64... I may also hack the pad so when the +5v pin is off, the A button works as UP , so I can have a nice jump button on Amiga games )

EDIT:
Yes, it seems like if you disconnect both pins 5 and 7 from the MD Pad, those games will work on a SMS. It seems to be a problem with the US SMS, the Japanese Mark III doesn't have this problem:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=964.0

[Shatterhand]

Just checked the price of a MC Cthulhu.. the price is good, but the shipping to Brazil is overkill! I don't think I can buy this anywhere but at the 2 USA-based stories that usually sells it.

I thought I could build something like that with an Arduino, but I'd have to learn a shitload about how all the controllers work.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Wait... what Master System games won't a Genesis controller work on?

I only have five MS games so far, and fortunately have not run into an incompatible game. I do have MS controllers that my dad found in a dumpster (don't ask, because I didn't) but I doubt they work.

Not many and probably only really two that warrant an arcade stick. I believe this is the full list:

Alien Syndrome
Bomber Raid
Great Volleyball
Montezuma's Revenge
Penguin Land
Shanghai
Where in the World is Carmen San Diego
Wonder Boy in Monster Land

a Mega-Drive Padhack with a switch where I can turn on/off the +5v pin from the Mega-Drive (I am not sure this is will make it work with the every Master System game, but it makes it safe to use it in a Commodore Amiga/C64... I may also hack the pad so when the +5v pin is off, the A button works as UP , so I can have a nice jump button on Amiga games )

EDIT:
Yes, it seems like if you disconnect both pins 5 and 7 from the MD Pad, those games will work on a SMS. It seems to be a problem with the US SMS, the Japanese Mark III doesn't have this problem:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=964.0

Yeah, that should work - there's a guy on an SMS forum I frequent that has that mod so that he can switch between playing MD and all SMS. It's a problem with PAL consoles too.

[Shatterhand]

The thing is that this arcade stick will probably be the only thing I'll have to play anything in most consoles I own I don't want an arcade stick to play good games with it, I want an Arcade Stick to play EVERYTHING with it

I only own a half-arsed tec-toy 6 buttons pad for the SMS, it's not very good to play, but at least it works with Wonder Boy in Monster Land

I'd also use the stick in a Commodore Amiga at some point (I still plan buying one), so I'd need to support the SMS properly anyway.

[Kyle]

I'm also a fan of project box. It's what I do on my cabinets. Here's something else if you're looking for Genny support. It works on a bunch of older systems and PC with an adapter.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... station-II

[emphatic]

I prefer using one PCB and adapters for every other system. The Zero Delay encoder PCB ( this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zero-Delay-Arca ... 2ed24ec197 ) is cheap, and has support for PS3, PC and Playstation + is very easy to install. You can use adapters for DC, XBox 360 etc with the Playstation connector. From where did you plan on buying the Multi-Console Cthulhu? Toodles has his own site: http://godlikecontrols.com/

[Shatterhand]

I was thinking about this site indeed.

What I liked about the Cthulhu is the fact that it really supports a LOT of systems. The only systems I want to use and it doesn't support are the Mega-Drive and Master System (And other systems which are compatible with the Atari pinout).

From what I calculated, doing this route is cheaper than buying adapters.

[Shatterhand]

Ok, just to update this post.

I ended up postponing the building of this arcade controller for 2015, as the last months have been really tight regarding budget for my "little toys"

But as a late Xmas gift, a friend of mine just gave me this:



This is an amazing arcade stick, and it seems to be really easy to mod. I am really looking forward to find a way to use it with all my gaming systems. (Right now: Master System, Mega Drive, Sega Saturn, Dreamcast, NES (Actually a brazilian clone), Super Nes, Playstation 1, Playstation 2, XBOX 360, OUYA, MSX and Commodore Amiga A600).

And I must say I don't think I've ever had played with Sanwa sticks before... I am really gobsmacked how Brazilian arcade parts are actually awful close to this. The stick is freaking amazing, very precise, very light, very comfortable... and the buttons... goddamn, I just THINK about pressing the button and already registers. I'll actually need sometime to get used with its sensitivity, I was playing today and many times I ended up pressing a button accidentally. A lot different from our typical arcade buttons where we always playing by HULK SMASHING the buttons.

[alebove]

Hi guys,

I have a similar question - I'd like to use an arcade stick on PS1,PS2,PS3, Saturn, DC, X360.

I have one of the PS3 MadCatz SF4 TE arcade stick, my questions are:
- can this stick be modded to add compatibility to the consoles I mentioned above?
- If so, do you know anyone on the web that would mod the stick? Unfortunately I am a total noob with anything related to DIY, soldering etc (although I'd like to learn, but right now I don't really have the time between work and family)
- If this stick can't be modded, is it possible to buy somewhere a custom made stick that covers all those requirements?

Thanks to everyone for your help, this is a great community

[shmuppyLove]

A PS360+ will cover everything except Saturn, for which you could use a PSX to Saturn adapter like this one:

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php? ... ucts_id=52

[opt2not]

A PS360+ will cover everything except Saturn, for which you could use a PSX to Saturn adapter like this one:

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php? ... ucts_id=52

PS360+ now supports Saturn as of Ver 1.5 firmware: http://akishop-customs.com/PS360Plus.html
You just got to re-wire the guide button (or install a switch). Also SNES and NES are now supported as well.

Finally they're doing the work to get retro consoles supported.

[alebove]

A PS360+ will cover everything except Saturn, for which you could use a PSX to Saturn adapter like this one:

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php? ... ucts_id=52

PS360+ now supports Saturn as of Ver 1.5 firmware: http://akishop-customs.com/PS360Plus.html
You just got to re-wire the guide button (or install a switch). Also SNES and NES are now supported as well.

Finally they're doing the work to get retro consoles supported.

That's perfect! Looks like I'm going to buy one soon!

Thanks guys!

[shmuppyLove]

Damn, I didn't know they'd added so much support lately.

I have a Namco stick that already has a DA-15 connector, wonder if I should build a little project box with a PS360+ in it ...