dreamcast shmups

[sjewkestheloon]

i got hold of mars matrix and it is the first shmup sinse gynoug to hook me like mad. hard as a bastard though

keep getting slaughtered by the pre boss ship on stage 4...

just wondering if some people could give me some comments on how difficult mars matrix is to them. am i just being a complete shmup noob in my constant death?

also could some people compile a list of the shmups worth owning in order for the dc so i have some targets?

cheers guys

[Frogacuda]

MM is definately one of the most intense and challenging shooties around, although recent Cave efforts make it pale in comparison (in terms of difficulty at least).

MM was also the game that got me back "into" the genre. I kinda skipped the 32-bit generation entirely and had missed out on just how much shooters had evolved (the local arcade hadn't gotten anything new since Raiden II, which I still played religiously), but I picked up MM when it first hit, and I've been catching up ever since.

[professor ganson]

Yes, Mars Matrix completely kicks my ass. Though, perhaps I am not the best measure of difficulty: most shoot-em-ups kick my ass.
As for other DC titles: Giga Wing 1 and 2, Gunbird 2, and Bangai-O are all solid. The one I am most intrigued by is Zero Gunner 2. Unfortunately, I don't have an import model. I would like to know whether it is worthwhile to get a Japanese DC for the sake of ZG 2.

[Super Laydock]

I personally don't like Mars Matrix much so keep that in mind when looking at my list of good DC shmups!

1. Border Down

2. Gunbird 2

3. Giga Wing 1

4. Shikigami no Shiro 2

5. Chaos Field

6. Bangai-o (borderliner by defenition but shmuppy enough for me! )

7. Giga Wing 2

8. Zero gunner 2

9. Ikaruga (to complex chaining to be fun for me)

10. Mars Matrix

11. Psyvariar 2




--. Twinkle Star Sprites (not played it yet....)

[Rob]

*1. Gunbird 2 (5/5) - Challenging, short game. Mostly survival based. Psikyo
*2. Giga Wing 2 (5/5) - Nice looking, lots of bullets, score based. Takumi
3. Zero Gunner 2 (5/5) - 360 degree shooting, survival based. Psikyo
*4. Mars Matrix (5/5) - You played it. Takumi
5. Shikigami 2 (4/5) - On many systems, but its on this one too. Lots of characters, bullets, score based. Alfa System
6. Border Down (4/5) - A side-scroller w/ complex rank and scoring system. G.Rev
*7. Cannon Spike (3/5) - Simple short arena shooter w/ Capcom characters. Psikyo
8. Psyvariar 2 (3/5) - Lots of multi-colored bullets, score based. Skonec
*9. Giga Wing (2/5) - Like GW2, except not half as good. Takumi
10. Ikaruga (2/5) - ... Treasure
11. Chaos Field (1/5) - Made me consider being more selective in game purchases. Milestone

The only one I'd really say to avoid is Chaos Field. U.S. releases asterisked. I'd slip Bangai-O in 6th or 7th. Fun game once through, not very hard.

[Super Laydock]

*2. Giga Wing 2 (5/5) - Nice looking, lots of bullets, score based. Takumi

*9. Giga Wing (2/5) - Like GW2, except not half as good. Takumi

Giga Wing 1 has close to none slowdown making the game very fluid.
Giga Wing 2 has lots of slowdown.
.
Giga Wing 1 has a better color scheme making it easier to identify the bullets.

Giga Wing 1 has a great soundtrack if you like lots of beats and shouts
Giga Wing 2 has a great soundtrack if your into more subtle, classic stuff

Giga Wing 2 is Hi-res and on the looks absolutely more beautiful than part 1, the costs of this is unfortunately the slowdown.

Giga Wing 2 has 4-player simultaneous (!) play which is a unicum and should be tried at least once.
[/quote]

The only one I'd really say to avoid is Chaos Field

Have some perseverance with the titla and it's actually quite nice. Great soundtrack too. Graphics can look amateurish sometimes, but great at other moments. Slowdown and lack of high-score saving keep this game from getting higher on my list.

[Rob]

Giga Wing 1 has close to none slowdown making the game very fluid.
Giga Wing 2 has lots of slowdown.

I don't agree. Giga Wing 1 has as much slowdown when reflecting, especially on the final full stage. GW2 only has a lot of noticeable slowdown when using the character Chery. Not an issue at all, but I've played it so much that maybe I can't even judge anymore. I don't think it makes the game choppy or near too slow, so I think that's what matters when discussing slowdown.
.

Giga Wing 1 has a better color scheme making it easier to identify the bullets.

I think GW2's bullets are more offset. Garish even. The DC port of Giga Wing looks really washed out, or is that just me?

[the2bears]

...I would like to know whether it is worthwhile to get a Japanese DC for the sake of ZG 2.

Get a boot-disk for playing imports, works like a charm. There are lots of other Japanese shmups for the DC, not just ZG 2.

Bill

[CMoon]

also could some people compile a list of the shmups worth owning in order for the dc so i have some targets?

I tell you! We need a sticky for lists of shmups on consoles with recommendations! Heed my words or be doomed to...well...give lists of good games on consoles over and over (it doesn't matter what's in the xenocide files!)

[icepick]

I just played some more Psyvarier 2 last night, and I think that I'm finally getting the hang of it. I'm not sure of whether or not I'm doing what one is supposed to do, but, I feel like both a naive kid and a 'devoted shmupsfan' when I take a chance and chain invincibility by flying directly through multiple enemies, and it's not so bad. The naivete, I mean. I really like the game, by this point! None of the other (*cough* 3) shmups that I have will cause me to shriek loudly and uncontrollably during some of the boss attacks.

The game seems really lax at points with regard to player collision detection, though, which is probably a good thing for me. Erm... I'd probably still recommend that you avoid this one, sjewkes, since it seems that many don't really like it. I'll say that the screenshots hardly do it justice, though.

So, really, I don't have much to add to this topic, as I'm just getting into the games on DC myself. I'm also way too adoring to rate the games that I do have, since I like them all so much (which wasn't the case before I gave Psyvariar 2 another shot). I've got Border Down, the aforementioned Psyvariar 2, Shikigami no Shiro II, and... that's about it!

On my number one list to get are Trizeal, and Chaos Field. Note the sound of at least 70% of the forum collectively scoffing. CF has looked hyper-fun to me, from the videos, ever since I saw them, and I'm practically dying to get it. Maybe I should check the trading forum! Anyway, I'd like to try GigaWing 2 either two-player or by myself, because I've played it only once in four-player mode with some casual gamers, and it was more "look at all the stuff happening onscreen!" than genuine challenge and fun.

I was also thinking that I'd try GigaWing 1, but now I'm both less sure and more sure, thanks to two individuals in this thread.

Gunbird 2's on the list as well, and is probably a safe bet since lots here seem to like it and it's available in all three regions and should be pretty inexpensive! I've still got my TV set to tate from last night, because today, I'm going to get into some 2P Shikigami no Shiro II. I love that game, but I would really like it if I could get past stage 3.

[BrianC]

also could some people compile a list of the shmups worth owning in order for the dc so i have some targets?

I tell you! We need a stick for lists of shmups on consoles with recommendations! Heed my words or be doomed to...well...give lists of good games on consoles over and over (it doesn't matter what's in the xenocide files!)

I just want the Xenocide files to get a decent update or at least correct some of the incorrect info. I really need to get some shmups for my DC. All I have is a couple crappy homebrew games (Noiz2sa doesn't do the PC one justice), some games in the Atari collection, and Centipede.

[CMoon]

Right. Having stickies would be the first step toward an updated xenocide files since people would be adding and correcting as we went along. I mean, the Xenocide files still says something about the Saturn version of Donpach being better...[edit: actually, that's been corrected, sorry.]

[sjewkestheloon]

after some marathon sessions on mars matrix i've managed to now get the full complement of continues etc and have reached the final level....

it's pretty tough hehe

just like to add how fantastic this game is in 2 player, with people of a similar skill level. definately try it out

thanks for the info guys and i appreciate not getting shouted out for making a clearly noobesque post

[TVG]

sorry to hijack thread, but i dont think making a new one is a good idea, so ill ask here, its kind of on subject.

what good tate-able shmups are there on the ps1?
i just tated a small sony TV, and im not going to play yoko on the big, flat thomson one ever again, ever.
DOJ is garbage in yoko compared to tate, its not the same game i was playing.
and 2 days after that, i learned that my ps2 can read PS games and imports using a litthe trick.
im on a urge to buy something in tate

delete me if off topic = bad.

[MASTER SATAN]

I have all of the shooters on DC except Shikigami 2 and Psyvaria 2 which I never knew existed until I read this.

And btw, I love Chaos Field. Maybe people don't like it because it's not like normal shooters with stages, it's more of a 1 on 1 bossathon. Once you get used to that fact (and realize reconfiguring your controls in the options menu will reveal 2 extra button actions for a total of 5) Chaos Field is actually very addictive and fun.

Giga Wing 2 is better than Giga Wing 1 by far. Though Giga Wing in MAME is much better to me because Giga Wing's 16 bittish grafx (on a 128bit system!) look better on my monitor than a TV.

[Rob]

what good tate-able shmups are there on the ps1?

Strikers 1945 II (not U.S.), Raiden DX, Raiden Project (not U.S.), DonPachi, DoDonPachi (though I've never played this version).

[TVG]

thanks.

that's not much, though.

what is on toaplan collection vol 1.? is the collection expensive or can i find it around 50 USD or less?

[sjewkestheloon]

i'm also in the market for a few ps1 shmups so i will bear those in mind.

i know my local store has strikers 1945 II new for £8 so i'll have to check it out.

i've made a huge mistake............

my dissertation is in in a month and i'm busy getting a high score

[BrianC]

what good tate-able shmups are there on the ps1?

Strikers 1945 II (not U.S.), Raiden DX, Raiden Project (not U.S.), DonPachi, DoDonPachi (though I've never played this version).

Actually, Raiden Project US PSX is tateable, but it doesn't have the option to switch the controls like the Japanese version does. However, I recommend the Japanese one anyway since it actually sells for cheaper than the US version.

[Super Laydock]

...
my dissertation is in in a month and i'm busy getting a high score

Glad you got your priorities straight!

[sjewkestheloon]

mars matrix bows beneath my might!!!!!!!!!!

yar!!

finally done it. have to do it again now. and again. and again

[professor ganson]

...I would like to know whether it is worthwhile to get a Japanese DC for the sake of ZG 2.

Get a boot-disk for playing imports, works like a charm. There are lots of other Japanese shmups for the DC, not just ZG 2.

Bill

Thanks, Bill! This is great to know. Can anyone tell me how to get a boot-disk for playing imports on my DC?

[FRO]

Do a Google search for 'Dreamcast utopia boot disk' & you'll come up w/ plenty of info.

[BulletMagnet]

I've also heard that a Gameshark will do the trick, though I couldn't confirm that...

[mannerbot]

Ikaruga's getting no love in this thread, but I think if you just take a look at some gameplay footage courtesy of ikaruga.co.uk you'll fall in love on the spot.

I hope you didn't just credit-feed your way through Mars Matrix!

Anyway, GameShark is the best boot disk except for maybe DC-X, since it allows VGA support. Make sure to play your games on VGA tate, completely different experience.

[Dandy J]

Ikaruga's getting no love in this thread

I think Ikaruga has gotten enough love, thank you very much.

Shikigami no Shiro 2 is really good, the most fun shmup on DC imo. A lot of replay value for score, mulpitle characters, and the extra game options.

[BUHA]

I really don't understand what people have against Ikaruga. It might be my favorite shmup ever (so far). If you've never played it, you really owe it to yourself to give it a try. Find some videos online and see what it's all about.

[professor ganson]

Anyway, GameShark is the best boot disk except for maybe DC-X, since it allows VGA support. Make sure to play your games on VGA tate, completely different experience.

Thanks VERY MUCH for the suggestions. I have just ordered DCX on EBay. Now I just have to figure out which import DC game to get first, when I can afford it.

[Dandy J]

I really don't understand what people have against Ikaruga. It might be my favorite shmup ever (so far). If you've never played it, you really owe it to yourself to give it a try. Find some videos online and see what it's all about.

Ikaruga is an excellent game, I just think people hug it's nutsack a little too tightly. It's really not my thing though, I don't like the slower puzzle-like sections, and honsetly I would rather would've liked a more manic/fast paced bullet fest with the black/white system (as lame as that sounds). And of course the very not-fun chaining system, if you can call it that. It just seems so arbitrary and lame, like they came up with it in 2 seconds without any thought as to if it was actually fun or not. What kind of rule is "destroy same colors 3 in a row"? It seems like they were desperate to find an additional scoring mechanic that used the color system, when it really didn't need to use the system at all.

Once again, excellent game, I mean it's Treasure after all. It just doesn't do anything for me in the replay category. The scoring/chaining lends itself much more to memorization than it should.

[CMoon]

Ikaruga is an excellent game, I just think people hug it's nutsack a little too tightly.

Well said. For me, Treasure is incredibly brilliant, but their games don't feel 'free' the way other shmups do. I feel that everything really needs to be done a very specific way, or that's it. The spontaneity of other shmups seems absent from RSG and Ikaruga. Are they great? Yes. Do they deserve a 10/10? Yes. Are they my favorite shmups? No. There are some 8/10 shmups I like more...