Namco NA-1 Hardware??? (and NB-1...)

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:28 pm

I have several of these Namco boards and TWO of them do not work! Is there a common problem that occurs with these pcb, since I have always stored them very carefully when not played?

I want to get at least get my "Tinkle Pit" working...

Thanks in advance.

Stefan_L · Post by **Stefan_L** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:34 pm

Yes there is a problem with NA-1 mobos that makes them die... but it's not known what. But i would suspect static electricity.

I have four NA-1 mobos and three of them are dead

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:41 pm

Namco boards for the most part have been very reliable...

I hope that I can fix this one day!

If it is static electricity, then what component fails and can it be replaced?

caldwert · Post by **caldwert** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:27 am

I've got 2 that are screwed up. Both are Fighter and Attacker's. I'm having someone look at them right now to try and fix them. One won't display anything yet the cabinet will turn on. Another will bootup, but I can't get the game to actually start. Quite frustrating.

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:08 am

If you find out anything about what could fix these I would appreciate it as well. I was planning to eventually get - Fighter & Attacker - but will hesitate now. If I can get at least one of these two of mine working - Tinkle Pit - fixed and reliable I will be happy!

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:20 pm

I recall that cool Figher & Attacker PCB at a local arcade. It was licensed to Atari Games from Namco for distribution in the USA. So the Namco NA-1 mobo is notorious for not working properly then? I'll keep that in mind...thanks Dragon1952, for the heads-up on that particular situation with that board. ^_~

Are there any differences between the original JPN and USA regions of Fighter & Attacker PCBs?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:55 pm

Hopefully, we can collectively gather enough information to eventually solve this dilemma and get a load of dead NA-1's working again!

I was thinking about sending both of mine to GAME DOC (aka Kent Tisch) in So. Cal and see if he can solve and fix this problem!

caldwert · Post by **caldwert** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:17 am

I've got one of the guys on KLOV looking at mine. I've tried EVERYTHING to get them working and no dice. The boards are in really great shape too. Its so frustrating.

Post by **system11** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:29 am

Dragon1952 wrote:Namco boards for the most part have been very reliable...

At least someone thinks so!

I've always been terrified of them due to constant failure of older games, usually custom chips.

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:28 pm

I own a load fo different Namco pcb's and they are all reliable. It is only this later era of production that seems to be iffy!

caldwert · Post by **caldwert** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:40 pm

From the guy looking at the boards for me, who I'm VERY grateful for:

"The cap the controls the CPU's reset was bad and keeping the CPU from starting correctly. It's working now. I also noticed right by it a nasty looking trace so I jumpered it as well."

This was the Fighter & Attacker that wouldn't boot up at all yet the cabinet lights would turn on.

As far as the other board goes:

"It's a pretty crappy design actually, and the surface mount technology was pretty new at the time which doesn't help matters. I haven't looked at the other board but i expect the problem to be a resistor pack or one of multiplexers in the input circuit. Fear not my friend, I will solve the problem "

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:41 am

Thank's for the helpful information! I hope to get my own board fixed by the Game Doc in San Fernando California. maybe this in formation will help him as well. I sent my dead "Tinkle Pit" to him last week....

caldwert · Post by **caldwert** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:50 am

Back from the grave. My other board was fixed as well. Guy says "The one you already had was an open RF filter (useless) so I just jumpered over it". Awesome guy I might point out, so if you're reading this then you know who you are. I appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:04 pm

I haven't heard back from my tech yet. I sent him this link sometime back though...!

Thanks for the updates Caldwert, this is what is cool about this thread, helping each other to maintain our Namco pcb's!

caldwert · Post by **caldwert** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:58 am

I wasn't very clear on that post. The one where the cap was bad, the lights on the cab would turn on, but the game wouldn't fire up. The one where the RF filter was open was the one where the game worked fine except you couldn't actually start a game.

Dragon1952 · Post by **Dragon1952** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Caldwert,

My tech "Game Doc" can't fix my TINKLE PIT, so do you have a referral for your tech that fixed your NA1 boards? I want to get this working...!

Thanks!

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:05 pm

"Tinkle Pit" is the funniest name for a game ever. Just think about it.
I'm trying to imagine the cabinet.

caldwert · Post by **caldwert** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:05 am

The guy who sold me the one is who fixed it. His name is "g3n3r1c " over on the KLOV forums. Said he works on PCB's all day as part of his job, so fixing this wasn't that bad. Not sure if he does board repair on demand but can't hurt to ask him to take a look at it.

kyapiko · Post by **kyapiko** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:47 am

Hi eveyone,

I just got a one of these NA-1 system PCB (Fighter & Attacker) which doesn't boot up (I just get a black screen with no sound).
I know this topic is very old but I'm trying to find which cap was replaced on Caldwert board (the one that controls the CPU's reset).

Thanks for any info,
Yves

Post by **system11** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:57 pm

C5 according to a klov archive thread I found, which also mentions these games are prone to leaking caps generally so take a good look near the audio section just in case. C5 is right next to the voltage monitor which is a part of most reset circuits so that makes sense.

Edit: leaking caps DEFINITELY a thing. I just removed all the surface mount caps from mine, about 6 were leaking. The reset one had previously leaked and been replaced with a standard electrolytic.

Edit2: http://green.ap.teacup.com/junker/156.html

kyapiko · Post by **kyapiko** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:33 pm

Awesome, thanks a lot system11.
I will first try to change this C5 cap and will let you know if this works.

Post by **system11** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:36 pm

Check the sound area too - if you see anything like trace / chip leg discolouration, anything that looks slightly like moisture, you're going to have to do the whole lot.

We can add this to Konami sound customs and Irem M92 in the list of capacitor nightmares.

kyapiko · Post by **kyapiko** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:43 pm

I changed the C5 and the game is running ! Thanks again.

Indeed there are very slight traces like moisture around the caps in the sound area (no discolouration on the chip legs) but the sound in game seems fine.
I get the same kind of leakage on most of my Konami boards (on these infamous black little boards) but they still sounds well.
Do you think it is necessary to change them now anyway ?

Post by **system11** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:51 pm

kyapiko wrote:I changed the C5 and the game is running ! Thanks again.
Indeed there are very slight traces like moisture around the caps in the sound area (no discolouration on the chip legs) but the sound in game seems fine.
I get the same kind of leakage on most of my Konami boards (on these infamous black little boards) but they still sounds well.
Do you think it is necessary to change them now anyway ?

Yes, absolutely essential - and on the Konami ones too.

That stuff will corrode and eat through the tracks if left. On the Konami customs it gets so bad that the custom is ruined and you can't even re-cap it. The sooner they are removed the better. Clean the whole area with isopropyl alcohol afterwards, this will cause no damage other than to paper labels and evaporates quickly.

After I posted about my NA-1, I removed all the capacitors and cleaned it, THEN I ordered the new ones. Be careful, they were difficult to remove.

caius · Post by **caius** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:05 pm

I can confrim it's absolutely needed to change all the SMD electrolytic capacitors on Namco NA-1 and NA-2 PCBs, in particular the one @C5 involved in the RESET circuitry (oherwise you will get a beautiful blank screen).You can use instead through-hole or (better) tantalum ones.Change also the ones in the sound circuitry in you have missing/corrupted audio.

Post by **system11** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:08 pm

http://blog.system11.org/?p=1120

Add that to the "list of repairs I won't do for money".....

kyapiko · Post by **kyapiko** » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:54 pm

Alright, I will take time to change them soon.
Thanks again for these precious help and tips.

Post by **system11** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:07 am

http://blog.system11.org/?p=1382

Sigh. Namco NB-1 has the same issue.

caius · Post by **caius** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:21 am

Yes, I think also Sony hardware can have same problem.
Anyway, I think C29-C32 on NB-1 are simple ceramic capacitors and not tantalum.
I would have not used SMD electrolytic capacitors again but tantalum ones (they don't leak) as I do usually on Konami custom audio module

Post by **system11** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:00 am

Yeah but tantalum sound different to electrolytic when used in audio paths. I don't feel like going through the misery of changing them, recording the game, changing them again and comparing. Actually might be easy for you to do if you have any Konami boards with sockets for the custom now and one of each type.

Edit - also thanks, corrected the tantalum to ceramic in blog post.

shmups.system11.org

Namco NA-1 Hardware??? (and NB-1...)

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Oh greatest joy, NB-1 has the same problem

Re: Namco NA-1 Hardware??? (and NB-1...)

Re: Namco NA-1 Hardware??? (and NB-1...)