Torn between BVM-20F1U and PVM-20L5

[c0dehunter]

OK, I asked this privately from Fudoh and kamiboy, and as usual, they were supernice enough to answer my question deligently, so for the benefit of others who are in the same position and want to debate which one is the better monitor, I post my original question and their answers here:

"If you had the option of getting PVM-20L5 or BVM-20F1U, which one would you choose and why?

Currently I own a PVM-14L5, and I am very pleased with it, but the only drawback is its small size. Getting into the 20" of course gives me the two aforementioned choices.

I play mostly PS1, PS2 (I play most of my PS1 on PS2), Saturn, and Xbox 1. In other words, I won't go higher than 480p, and I love the pixelly 240p!"

This is Fudoh's response:

"F1 all the way. It's by far the better monitor. Better quality and better controls. I wouldn't worry about the missing 480p support. 480i looks *stunning* on the F1 and if you really want/need 480p I would pick up a good PC monitor instead (21" Mitsubishi Diamondtron - best PC CRTs ever built)."

And this is kamiboy's:

"20L5 because of 480p support. Also it has RGB, S-video and component support out of the box. Lastly since it is a newer model it prolly has less hours on it."

I do respect both answers, however I have additional questions:

1) How do I connect my consoles to a BVM-20F1U? Does it accept RGB through BNC? (similar to my 14L5?), do I need additional add-on cards? In other words, does it give me the option to have additional RGB (via BNC) inputs? currently, on my 14L5, I have to physically remove the component cables from one console to another when I want to switch systems, and it is a pain. (I guess I can use a selector switch unit)

2) Would my original PS1 console work right out of the box, or do I need a clean sync? Also the lack of 480p is a bit concerning, but then again, there aren't many PS2 games that support this feature and I rarely play my Xbox 1. Then again, I play most of my PS1 games using my PS2 slim (240P, yay!) and I am waiting for my Sega Saturn RGB cable to arrive.

which one is the built-in, standard connector (is it on the right with color coded labels?), and which one is the add-on card? (to the left?)


This one seems to have TWO of the color-coded inputs, so I assume it allows for more RGB connections?


I have found a local source that sells both of these monitors for a decent price. (not very cheap though, but at least I can drive, and physically see them up-close, and obvious don't have to pay a hefty shipping fee)

Any other comments and suggestions are appreciated!

[Fudoh]

The shown BVM has two analogue component inputs. Both can also be used for RGBs signals, but only one sync input is available.

Does it accept RGB through BNC?

sure.

do I need additional add-on cards?

no.

does it give me the option to have additional RGB (via BNC) inputs?

you gain one or two component inputs per input board, but you never get any additional sync inputs. If you have more than one system, use an external switch.

Would my original PS1 console work right out of the box, or do I need a clean sync?

it works on the BVM.

[c0dehunter]

If you have more than one system, use an external switch.

Dear Fudoh, thanks for prompt response! OK, would you kindly post a link for a good external switch?

Thanks!

[fagin]

If you *need* 480p AND don't want to use/buy another screen on top get the L5. If not get the BVM.

Simple.

[c0dehunter]

Thanks for your replies. Can these monitors be stacked on top of another? In other words do they have magnetic shielding?

The reason that I ask is the fact the currently when my 14L is on, if I turn my PVM-2030, I can see wavy signal on 14L, so refrain from using them at the same time. If one is OFF, does it still affect the other? (in other words does the magnetic field destroy the other CRT in long run?). The 2030 is the CRT that I am thinking to replace with a 20", either with a BVM-20F1U or a PVM-20L5.

This is my current setup:

[kamiboy]

When you turn on a monitor like the PVM the first thing it does is to degauss, which is the source of the patterns you see. The degauss process only lasts a few seconds and happens only upon power on.

So far as I know it causes no harm to nearby monitors. Try and turn both on and wait a few sconds, then you should get a clear artefact free picture from both, even if they are stacked.

Studio monitors were designed to be placed next to oneanother in large quantities so dont worry.

[c0dehunter]

When you turn on a monitor like the PVM the first thing it does is to degauss, which is the source of the patterns you see. The degauss process only lasts a few seconds and happens only upon power on.

So far as I know it causes no harm to nearby monitors. Try and turn both on and wait a few sconds, then you should get a clear artefact free picture from both, even if they are stacked.

Studio monitors were designed to be placed next to oneanother in large quantities so dont worry.

Wow, you made my day! Thanks for letting me know this!

[c0dehunter]

Since both of these monitors are 15Khz, how can I connect them to a modern PC (using Soft15Khz, and a capable video card, Radeon 4350) for emulation (MAME, etc.) purposes?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.0
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Cus ... Soft-15khz

Currently I am using my PVM-2030 and a custom 25pin to VGA cable, but I am not very happy with the image quality of my 2030, so I am thinking about replacing it with either BVM-20F1U or PVM-20L5.

How can I connect either BVM-20F1U or PVM-20L5 to a modern PC?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Fudoh]

Soft15khz, VGA to BNC cable works on both. The L5 does support 31khz component (and possible RGsB).

[c0dehunter]

Soft15khz, VGA to BNC cable works on both. The L5 does support 31khz component (and possible RGsB).

A while back I asked a similar question, and seems like there were some conflicting opinions about this.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44021

Would you please let me know exactly which cable I need, since there are variety of them out there. Any link with possible image would work.

Many thanks in advance!

[Fudoh]

Doesn't work with a cable. Your PC doesn't output component or RGBsB. You can use a transcoder to go RGBHV to component or a Sync interface to go from RGBHV to RGsB, but confirm first, if the monitor accepts Sync on Green.

[kamiboy]

Just connect the separate H & V sync cables of a VGA to BNC cable using a BNC split adapter and connect the BNC adapter to your monitors sync input.

[c0dehunter]

Just connect the separate H & V sync cables of a VGA to BNC cable using a BNC split adapter and connect the BNC adapter to your monitors sync input.

I am about to try just that! Thanks!

[c0dehunter]

It works! I combined the two sync into one BNC connector (T shaped) and I can see the image on the screen! for mame and other games, with my previous CRT (Commodor 1084-S1, and PVM-2030) I was using the 320x240 resolution (or auto for that matter) but it seems that my L14 likes 336x240, since it will be out of sync on 320x240.

Thanks!

[snoopyj]

Hi Guys. I am a new comer to this forum. I am also wondering which one to choose between BVM-20F1U and PVM20L5, and I have some question to ask. And I also have a PVM14L5. I play retro games (4th to 6th generations) on it like NES SNES Sega Genensis PS SS N64

A.How many BVM-20 series Monitor dose SONY launch before year 2000 or post year 2000 ?
I just investigate there are 2 types. BVM-A20F1U and BVM-D20F1U. As far as I know A-series is much newer than D-series. If it is ture, BVM-A20F1U and BVM-D20F1U do support multiformat (480P 720P 1080i) ?

B. Which is the type of the BVM Monitor in the picture? It is a BVM-D20F1U or BVM-A20F1U ?

C. If BVM-D20F1U and BVM-A20F1U support multiformat , is there any other reason to go for a PVM20L5 ??

Waiting for your answer

[Fudoh]

C) price.

And remember that the BVM-A series does not come with analogue inputs by default.

The pictures show neither a D or A series, but a classic BVM-20F1U (or a 20E1).

[snoopyj]

OK. I got it. Thanks for your reply Fudoh.

Do u know which date Sony launch that classic BVM-20F1U (or a 20E1)? It's should be before year 1999?
m
And I am wondering if that classic BVM-20F1U (or a 20E1) also support multiformat technique which can also produce progressive scan ?

I do want a BVM Classic CRT Monitor which can play all console games (From the 4th generations to the 7th generations) .....

DAY Dreaming~~~~ :

[Skips]

I personally prefer the PVM-20L5 (I have owned both). The PVM-20L5 lacks the configuration options of the BVM-20F1U however its picture quality is on par with the 20F1U and in addition to 240p/480i it also supports 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Not only do the old consoles look phenomenal but newer ones will too. I run my Wii U and Blurays on my 20L5 and they look breathtaking in 1080i. The 20L5 also takes up less desk space.

The BVM-20F1U is great for 240P consoles and you will get a crap ton more configuration options. You also get channels that you can set settings on so you can configure specific settings for each game console if you wanted. This monitor does take up a bit more space than the 20L5 (its deeper) and you lose the HD capabilities. That is not a problem though if you are only looking for a good 240p/480i monitor.

It pretty much comes down to do you want an excellent all in one SD/HD monitor with less configuration options or an excellent 240p/480i monitor with more configuration options. You cant go wrong with either monitor.

Here are a couple pics of my 20L5 running, one in 240p and the other in 1080i. Any lines in the picture are the camera and the pictures look 10x better than this in person.

You may need to click the pictures for a full view for them to look right.

[Fudoh]

It's should be before year 1999?

yes, I guess so. Mid 90s probably.

And I am wondering if that classic BVM-20F1U (or a 20E1) also support multiformat technique which can also produce progressive scan ?

15khz ONLY.

I do want a BVM Classic CRT Monitor which can play all console games (From the 4th generations to the 7th generations)

then you need a D-series model.

[Taiyaki]

In my opinion the individual channel settings on a BVM is a must if you care about having the full display in underscan as each console has it's own little bias and you will need to move the horizontal of each channel to fit the screen properly. Otherwise slight overscan solves that problem, but you'll loose some pixels around the edges.

[Ed Oscuro]

You can never tell how many hours a 20L5 has on it, and the inner construction is such that if it gets rough treatment in shipping, lots of little plastic bits can develop cracks (while the set itself still will work fine, this isn't good). Additionally, most old thrashed 20L5s probably aren't really much newer than the BVM 20F1Us you see on eBay. Additionally, if you do need to service it, it seems like a real hassle to disassemble. Can't speak for the BVMs though.

[Skips]

You can never tell how many hours a 20L5 has on it, and the inner construction is such that if it gets rough treatment in shipping, lots of little plastic bits can develop cracks (while the set itself still will work fine, this isn't good). Additionally, most old thrashed 20L5s probably aren't really much newer than the BVM 20F1Us you see on eBay. Additionally, if you do need to service it, it seems like a real hassle to disassemble. Can't speak for the BVMs though.

I've taken apart both monitors. Both take about the same amount of time to disassemble. As for shipping, the 20L5 is still pretty durable. I have had about 6-7 shipped to me in the past year and a half, some of which did take a beating. They all arrived without broken/cracked parts. Just don't ship monitors via UPS ground and you will be fine (they beat the shit out of large packages and stack heavy crap on them).

[alamone]

I'd only consider these monitors if multiformat (i.e. support beyond 15KHz) is required.
Otherwise I'd try to get something like a PVM-20M4U. Dedicated 15KHz PVMs, in my experience,
have a much wider scan range tolerance which is very important if you ever plan on playing arcade PCBs.

[nesboy43]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the information in this thread. It really helped me decide between monitors as well.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just don't ship monitors via UPS ground and you will be fine (they beat the shit out of large packages and stack heavy crap on them).

Mine was FedEx and about 550 miles.

One thing about ordering monitors online is that even if you are lucky enough to get an hours count, you still can't run simple tests to see if the geometry and purity is good enough (and probably not possible to tell with the simple color bars, most of the time) and you can't see what it's like inside.

I'd only consider these monitors if multiformat (i.e. support beyond 15KHz) is required.
Otherwise I'd try to get something like a PVM-20M4U. Dedicated 15KHz PVMs, in my experience,
have a much wider scan range tolerance which is very important if you ever plan on playing arcade PCBs.

I haven't exhaustively tested out my own arcade collection, but the 20L5 seems to play everything I've got. Certainly it does all the Raiden games (SPI and Raiden II) I have with no problem.

[alamone]

When I had a PVM-14L5, it would not sync to 1943, which I don't particularly view as a problematic board.
This same board runs just fine on my other M4U PVMs.

[Ed Oscuro]

Fair enough. I actually do see the wisdom in getting a 15KHz system if that's the only requirement. Of course, it also should make servicing and troubleshooting easier (and might not hurt reliability either).

Personally I am not so keen on the "do-everything wonders" anymore, since 20" is not enough for me to really appreciate 480p and higher resolution imagery, at least in a 3D gaming context (purely 2D content might squeeze by, but I'm enjoying larger screens as I get older).

[Skips]

Fair enough. I actually do see the wisdom in getting a 15KHz system if that's the only requirement. Of course, it also should make servicing and troubleshooting easier (and might not hurt reliability either).

Personally I am not so keen on the "do-everything wonders" anymore, since 20" is not enough for me to really appreciate 480p and higher resolution imagery, at least in a 3D gaming context (purely 2D content might squeeze by, but I'm enjoying larger screens as I get older).

I'm kind of the same way with size when a monitor is 3+ feet away from me. Personally though I prefer to have everything in arms reach so my HDTV (doubles as computer monitor) and my PVM are on the same desk so its maybe 2.5 feet from me. At that distance 20 inches works pretty well. Any farther than 3 feet though and id want a larger monitor.

[gamefan71]

Skips - How are you feeding 1080i into the 20L5 from the Wii U? The Component output on the Wii U only does 480i max. Are you using some type of HDMI transcoder?

[Skips]

Skips - How are you feeding 1080i into the 20L5 from the Wii U? The Component output on the Wii U only does 480i max. Are you using some type of HDMI transcoder?

No it doesn't, the Wii U does 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p via component video just fine. You need to switch it to the resolution you want in the settings. If your Wii U is not letting you there is something wrong with your cable maybe (or you have an old model?). Either way my Wii U is doing those resolutions via component video, I would not have bought the system if it could not.