A few beginner questions

[Patashu]

My 1c is don't associate 'I'm a beginner' with 'I need an easy shmup'. Play something that challenges you to learn something new. Obviously don't go straight to Mushihimesama Futari Ultra, but don't be afraid of Dodonpachi DaiOuJou 1st Loop, Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION Arcade Original and so on - they're hard, but fair, and they will teach you everything you need to learn to beat every other shmup, if you're ready to listen. (Of course, if you pick a game like these, expect to take 1-3 months or even longer before you can achieve your 1CC. If you feel burned out on a game, swap games and see if it helps!)

And don't JUST play the game - practice. Route. Look for guides. Videos. Record and study your footage. Use savestates if available. Search on youtube for a 'superplay' of the game you're playing - learn from the best. You don't learn to play the piano by jumping in front of it and playing the song from the start, restarting every time you make a mistake - you break it down into techniques and sections and learn the fundamentals and analyze and correct your mistakes.

And yeah, seconding 'you can play with anything you like' I play with keyboard, it's fine. Just as long as it doesn't have input errors.

Also, have these:

Full Extent of the Jam: http://goo.gl/Fi2zE
Circadian Rhythm/Biological Clock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_ ... _human.svg
Using Neuroscience to Practice Optimally: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/pos ... mally.html

[Blinge]

What, how? That's absolutely the worst "popular" console controller of all time. The D-pad is near worthless too.

Nope! (what a retort)

Dualshock D-pad is okay too.

[DoomsDave]

I prefer an arcade stick but I've never had a problem with the Dreamcast DPAD for shooters or fighters. On the other hand, the Dualshock DPAD is a POS. I'll even use a 360 DPAD before I touch a DS.

[Bixler]

Wow, thank you all very much for the replies, holy CRAP! I was expecting maybe 3-5 replies, but this is... incredible. So much information to digest!

Here are some PC shmups that I am looking into picking up over the course of a long period of time ---

• Satazius
• Ikaruga
• Ether Vapor Remaster
• Touhou games
• Crimzon Clover
• Hydorah
• Blue Wish Resurrection Plus
• Kaikan
• Astebreed series
• Shikigami no Shiro series
• Eden’s Aegis
• Exceed series
• Kamui
• Trouble Witches
• Samidare

My computer is a Macbook Pro Retina 15" dual booted with OS X and Windows 7.

You folks have given me a lot to think about regarding controllers. As a 20-year old, I began playing video games as arcades were really thinning out (early 2000s), so my experience with sticks is next to nothing. I have a lot of experience with the Xbox 360 controller. The Qanba Q4 also looks great, but for $150 I would have to spend a couple months saving up for it. Here's the link, though it is out of stock right now, and I have no idea when it will be in stock again: http://www.eightarc.com/qanba-q4-black/ I suppose I'll be deciding between that and a 360 controller fairly soon. I guess I'll really just be looking for the cheapest stick with Sanwa parts I can find if I go the stick route.

I think I will continue to spend quite a bit of time with Jamestown (are there a lot of fans of it on these boards?), and I will also pick up Crimzon Clover and some Touhou games.

Thanks for the help! Any further advice is always appreciated as well!

[blackoak]

I think I will continue to spend quite a bit of time with Jamestown (are there a lot of fans of it on these boards?)

I love Jamestown, and think it's a total pioneer in multiplayer design for shmups. Also takes good advantage of the 16:9 widescreen format that has long since supplanted the 4:3 that shmups "grew up" on.

I didn't really like it as a single player game though. I felt it wasn't really balanced for that--not enough popcorn enemies, and too many enemies on-screen. The large screen size that accomodates 4 players so well works against the game with 1 player, where you're either too weak or too slow to destroy everything. YMMV of course, I never delved into the single player experience too deeply. But the developers have said it was designed for multiplayer from the beginning and it shows imo.

[Bixler]

Ah, found this stick with supposedly Sanwa parts for only $100: http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Catz-Arcade-F ... cade+stick Hopefully it would work with Windows 7.

That brings me to another question -- do many shmups have compatibility issues with pads/controllers/sticks? I would hate to drop $30 on a new 360 pad or $100 on a stick only to find that it works with half of the shmups I look into.

Thanks again!

[Bananamatic]

360 pad sucks for shmups, just drop $10 into a usb keyboard instead

[Bixler]

360 pad sucks for shmups, just drop $10 into a usb keyboard instead

Alright, thanks for the input! I actually have a very nice mechanical keyboard that I used for rhythm games, so if I go the keyboard route, that should probably suffice.

[BobbyNewmarkiii]

360 pad sucks for shmups, just drop $10 into a usb keyboard instead

Alright, thanks for the input! I actually have a very nice mechanical keyboard that I used for rhythm games, so if I go the keyboard route, that should probably suffice.

360 pad sux, but not as much as using keyboard for shmup

[trap15]

These arguments against keyboard are so persuasive, I feel like throwing my keyboard out the window right now.

[Stevens]

I've used this "awful" d-pad for all the Dreamcast games I've beaten, and I had no problem at all with it.
And it was always the same controller, going strong for years.

Now the analog, that's indeed awful....

Likewise. If the Dreamcast controller has a weakness it is that the shoulder buttons are very suspect. Every shoulder button on every DC controller I have had has failed at some point forcing me to cannibalize dead DC controllers for parts.

Overall I love it though - even if the cord is on THE WRONG SIDE.

[Stevens]

Motion in Joy will also allow you to use any PS3/360 stick on PC.

Thanks for the link. I have a Hori SE I would love to use on my PC and I could never figure out how.

[Bixler]

Thanks for your help everyone. I have decided to either order a used $100 Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE from Amazon with very minor wear, or to just stick with my Cherry Brown MX mechanical keyboard. Watching ProMeTheus play DoDonPachi (or whichever game he's renowned for playing with keyboard) was inspiring, even though I'll never be 10% as good as he is I'm sure.

Crimzon Clover is a lot of fun, thanks for the recommendations! I watched a video by someone named slowbeef on YouTube, and I was sold instantly.

[DestroyTheCore]

If you want to improve even better your gaming experience, you can replace parts on your arcade stick. I know MadCatz are quite reliable when it comes to fighting sticks and it's a matter of preferences, but customizations can change the way you feel and use your arcade stick.

[Bixler]

If you want to improve even better your gaming experience, you can replace parts on your arcade stick. I know MadCatz are quite reliable when it comes to fighting sticks and it's a matter of preferences, but customizations can change the way you feel and use your arcade stick.

One of my other trains of thought is to pick up a Mad Catz FightStick Pro and then grab a Seimitsu LS-32 from Arcade Shock or somewhere: http://store.madcatz.com/categories/fig ... ox360.html Though that would probably come to around $160-$170, which is well out of my budget right now. I'll probably do that after a while of playing with what I have on me -- a mechanical keyboard.

Thanks!

[mastermx]

Yeah just get a cheap stick and mod it with good parts. That's what my friends done, it's quite a good alternative to shelling out for that big stick.

[Bixler]

Are some sticks easier to mod than others? Which should I look into for cheap + a joke to mod?

[mastermx]

The madcatz SE fightstick was the one to go to back in the day. It's cheap and easy to mod. I'm not sure if its still on the market now. Most sticks are relatively easy to mod. All you're looking to do is switch out the stick and buttons, easy peezy, those things just click in (sanwa) or screw on (seimitsu).

EDIT: this thread is helpful for pc ports: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 30&start=0

[Shatterhand]

Wat?? really? I'm totally in love with the Dreamcast pad, the D-pad especially..

What, how? That's absolutely the worst "popular" console controller of all time. The D-pad is near worthless too.

Thank god someone else said. I recently finally got a Dreamcast, and god HOW I HATE that dpad.
The analog stick is ok (Except there's an analog stick missing there), but the dpad is AWFUL. Everytime I try to play Gigawing 2 or Under Defeat on it, I just wish I could use a Sega Saturn controller.

I do know there's a converter for it, and I am already looking up to buy one.

[KindGrind]

Are some sticks easier to mod than others? Which should I look into for cheap + a joke to mod?

Some sticks will require you to work more than others.

Look for sticks with quick disconnects for the buttons. Sticks that don't have these will need desoldering, which can be a pain / good learning experience, depending on how you look at it. It's pretty random what sticks got these and what sticks don't... For example, a HRAP PS3 does, HRAP X360 doesn't.

Installing a LS-32 (very popular stick for shmups) in some casings will be a breeze, while you will have to "make room" in other cases. That kind of tinkering isn't my cup of tea.

Wat?? really? I'm totally in love with the Dreamcast pad, the D-pad especially..

What, how? That's absolutely the worst "popular" console controller of all time. The D-pad is near worthless too.

Thank god someone else said. I recently finally got a Dreamcast, and god HOW I HATE that dpad.
The analog stick is ok (Except there's an analog stick missing there), but the dpad is AWFUL. Everytime I try to play Gigawing 2 or Under Defeat on it, I just wish I could use a Sega Saturn controller.

The Dreamcast D-pad is an acquired taste. I like it quite a lot compared to many others. Saturn has the best pads, but the DC d-pad I would put top tier, imho.

[Mr12Inches]

Are some sticks easier to mod than others? Which should I look into for cheap + a joke to mod?

In its heyday, the Madcatz WWE Brawlstick was really cheap and easy to mod. It was an updated version of the Madcatz SE stick that mastermx mentioned. I was able to get one for $20 new during a sale on Amazon in late 2012, back when I still played 2d fighters. When I got it, I ripped the decal on the top off because I didn't like it. The control stick that came with the thing was crap, so I replaced it with a Sanwa JLF and that was enough for about a few months before the stock buttons broke. I think it cost me $70-80 to get a fully functioning arcade stick, which is pretty rare nowadays.
I would stick with keyboard for now if I were you(no puns intended). Arcade sticks don't go for under $100 nowadays; the ones that do are either Hori brand (good pcbs, but they make their beginner sticks hard to mod) or not a big name brand (pcb quality could be all over the place).