Project-X PC release??...

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

phobia on c64..

Now there's a blast from the past. I don't think I've heard that game being mentioned on these forums before. It was an old favourite.

[Marc]

T'was also fucking hard if I remember rightly. Tony Crowther wasn't it?

[MJR]

Yeah, brilliant shmup. I'm hoping to one cc it one day, now there's a working version on the net.

It is very difficult if you are not able to get the option ships right at the beginning. Then it easies up, only to be tougher again in the end.

But there's plenty to play and plenty to love, great shooter. Just make sure you grab the version that is hacked to work on the B-side..

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

This is the one where player 2 could charge up player 1's shot by shooting him. I don't think I ever saw that used in another game.

[SteevTee]

I had Phobia on the ST, I remember never being any good at it until one day it just clicked and I cleared a good few levels. I never saw the C64 version (I guess that came first) so I don't know how it compares.

[Specineff]

This is the one where player 2 could charge up player 1's shot by shooting him. I don't think I ever saw that used in another game.

The first Raiden has a similar mechanic in which you shoot your partner, and powerful sparks will bounce off his armor. I have seen guys decimate bosses with this even before they can break the first wave of bullets.

[dave4shmups]

Well, I suppose my only hope at this point is for the company that put out the C64 TV stick to wisen up and put out an Amiga one.

The CD32 doesn't sound like a good option, and I don't want to commit to an A1200 at this point. Partly due to the fact that even though I got WinUAE up and running, Project X and Alien Breed won't even work on it, so I cannot try either out. (And yes, I have all the kickstarts.)

[Randorama]

I don’t think it was possible to 1’cc Project X however

Done, actually a 1-LC. Then again, i heartily recommend to think of Ketsui or DOJ when setting a parametre for difficulty. Any video of the said games can give a good idea of their sheer difficulty, of course.

[ST Dragon]

This is the one where player 2 could charge up player 1's shot by shooting him. I don't think I ever saw that used in another game.

The first Raiden has a similar mechanic in which you shoot your partner, and powerful sparks will bounce off his armor. I have seen guys decimate bosses with this even before they can break the first wave of bullets.

I thought those sparks in Raiden were only for the effect. I never knew that they actaully caused damage to the enemies!

[Shatterhand]

I don’t think it was possible to 1’cc Project X however

Done, actually a 1-LC. Then again, i heartily recommend to think of Ketsui or DOJ when setting a parametre for difficulty. Any video of the said games can give a good idea of their sheer difficulty, of course.

You did it yourself?

While I understand that Ketsui and DOJ are extremely hard, the difficulty in Project-X is different.

Ketsui and DOJ are well designed games with a small hitbox, which asks for a lot of skill from the player.

Project-X has a "full sprite hit-box", and the difficulty comes from bad design, like most enemies needing too many hits to die, entire levels with about 3 power ups, "Die and lose all your powers" syndrome, inertia and sloppy control, places in levels where all you can do is hide in a corner hoping for the best, enemies that keep respawning even if you kill them 10 times, and only go away after their "time" has runned out...

[ST Dragon]

I totally agree with Shatterhand. Project-X difficulty is completely different and can be best described as frustration rather than a case of demanding game-play.

I still remember when I managed to finally beat the 2nd level Boss; the 3rd copied disk was corrupt and would load no further!
Very annoying experience indeed, especially after having spent so much time & effort.

But, if you did happen to 1'cc Project-X, well all I can say is, Wow.
I admire your dedication & patience.

[Randorama]

You did it yourself?

???

Yes, and to be honest, i remember using a lot of cheap tecniques to avoid the bad design issues.I remember that, in many cases, there were special spots or some elements of bad design that could be turned against the CPU, and this made the game worse than it already was. Luckily, European designers never continued doing shmups, some of their efforts were really absurd.

[DC906270]

western shmups suck arse - xenon II i rest my case

team 17 made X2 ps which was shat also

just had to vent my anger there i really hate amiga shmups with a passion

[Shatterhand]

I was just curious if you had done it, or you had seen someone doing it.

There are some european shmups which are great... even on Amiga, like Battle Squadron, Apidya, Disposable Hero, Uridium 2, Banshee...

[ST Dragon]

western shmups suck arse - xenon II i rest my case

team 17 made X2 ps which was shat also

just had to vent my anger there i really hate amiga shmups with a passion

Hmm...
You should try these:
Agony, Apidya, Disposable Hero, Swiv, Saint Dragon, Silk Worm, X-Out, Z-Out.

[bVork]

western shmups suck arse - xenon II i rest my case

team 17 made X2 ps which was shat also

just had to vent my anger there i really hate amiga shmups with a passion

Hmm...
You should try these:
Agony, Apidya, Disposable Hero, Swiv, Saint Dragon, Silk Worm, X-Out, Z-Out.

Don't forget Uridium 2.

And C64 has some good ones too, like Katakis, Zynaps, and Uridium 1.

[Randorama]

Just to be nitpicky, Saint Dragon is (should be) a port of a Jaleco Arcade game, though.

[ST Dragon]

Just to be nitpicky, Saint Dragon is (should be) a port of a Jaleco Arcade game, though.

Yes it is, but the AMIGA version has superior music & sound effects compared to the Arcade version, which gives it a better overall feel.

[Shatterhand]

Well, if you think about it..

Silkworm is also an arcade port... though many people also consider the Amiga port to be better than the arcade original.

Swiv is a unoficial sequel to Silkworm... it was made by the guys who made the Amiga port of Silkworm, and people say Swiv actually means "SilkWorm In Vertical".

Agony isn't all that good really. It's not a bad game, but it's not even close to be as good as Apidya or Uridium 2, for example. The graphics were really cool, the music is awesome and the overall atmosphere is amazing, but the gameplay isn't all that hot. It's not bad, but n

And Apidya is just awesome.

[captain ahar]

And Apidya is just awesome.

it sure is. thank goodness for UAE.

i've been very naughty lately.

[ST Dragon]

Apidya is one of shooters I managed to 1'cc back in the day, if memory serves right. I spent the whole Summer of 1993 (Very hot one too! ) trying to master it.
Great experience indeed.

The Last Hornet Boss reminds me of the Bees & Hornets of DoDonPachi Series.

The coolest Boss has to be the huge pike fish at the end of the swamp stage.

[MJR]

Just to be nitpicky, Saint Dragon is (should be) a port of a Jaleco Arcade game, though.

Yes it is, but the AMIGA version has superior music & sound effects compared to the Arcade version, which gives it a better overall feel.

Amiga version was quite well done, though I was really disappointed that sales curve ditched my favourite level from the conversion.. the giant battleship level with all the nebulas & planets in the background.. also the lvl3 boss was not seen sleeping in the capsule before waking up-- OK I am nitpicking on that one, but when I first saw the arcade version those were the things that really sticked in my memory... other fun thing about the arcade was that lvl 3 boss only appeared if destroyed enough machines before reaching the end of level..

I never played saint dragon with music, so I can't comment on that.. as I liked to listen 'spacey' music on the background to boost the exceptionally surreal 'outerspace' feeling that saint dragon had.. that's why I loved the game so much..

[ST Dragon]

I can't comment on the level 3 Boss as I vaguely remember his pattern, but I can definitely verify that the AMIGA version has a space level with gorgeous blue coloured nebulas in the background. (I think that in the PCE & Arcade version, they were purple)
That specific nebula level was the coolest things I had seen back in 1991 & one of the reasons (As well as Turrican II) I bought the A500+.

You can see the nebula stage on the Sales Curve Saint Dragon Flyer, on the upper left side. (AMIGA Screen Shot)



And a larger flyer…

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1810 ... rge3wx.jpg

You should really play it again with music this time.

Only other similar stage that matches it is the 3rd stage in Gaiares (Genesis). After diving into hyper space, you reach a place dominated with awesome purple coloured nebulas & sinister black-holes. The Grim Ripper’s Citadel follows soon after.

[MJR]

I can't comment on the level 3 Boss as I vaguely remember his pattern, but I can definitely verify that the AMIGA version has a space level with gorgeous blue coloured nebulas in the background. (I think that in the PCE & Arcade version, they were purple)

Thanks for the flyer, that's cool! I'm gonna print it out and put on my offce wall

But, you are mistaken, the nebula level you are talking about is not the one I am talking about; I put here screenshots I just took from Mame, as you can see it all in the arcade version's attract mode.

This is the beginning of the level that is missing in amiga version:

While you go forward, you see the giant battleship firing missiles at you:

This is the giant battleship, or a fraction of it:


This is the lvl 3 boss in hibernation. In amiga version you did not see him hibernating, only the force field:


So. since these were lacking I was disappointed in amiga version, otherwise it was well done port and it was the only way to play it in home for me in the eighties any way, so it was not too bad.. but now I prefer the original

[ST Dragon]

I’m glad you like the flyers I posted.

To be honest with you I've never completed the arcade version, so I haven’t seen that specific stage (It looks cool by the way)

Actually those huge blue stars in the AMIGA flyer I posted are not "Nebulas" but the "Pleiades", so it's my mistake for misinterpreting.

The “Pleiades” stage was my favourite so I was more than happy with the AMIGA version.

By the way, concerning the lvl3 boss. In the arcade version, is he concealed inside a transparent force field like a cocoon? Because I think the OCS/ECS A500 was not capable of transparency effects unlike the AGA A1200. But then again, I'm not sure whether the StDragon Jaleco PCB was either. I could be wrong on these specs, so feel free to correct me please.

Cheers.

[MJR]

By the way, concerning the lvl3 boss. In the arcade version, is he concealed inside a transparent force field like a cocoon? Because I think the OCS/ECS A500 was not capable of transparency effects unlike the AGA A1200. But then again, I'm not sure whether the StDragon Jaleco PCB was either. I could be wrong on these specs, so feel free to correct me please.

It is not a real transparency effect, simply just a flickering the force field quickly on and off, creating cheap 'transparency'. you can see it in the attract mode. Amiga could have done the flickering effect as well, but I think the people who converted the game left it out probably due to memory issue as the cocooning sprite of the boss was not used anywhere else so it would have been waste of valuable memory; or then the framerate (15-30fps I think was the rate with amiga version) was not good enough to put up flicker that would be fast enough to look transparent.

Leaving out levels was very common for amiga conversions (otherwise great forgotten worlds conversion being the worst example), even for a good ones, usually the reason was just incredibly tight deadlines, as it was better choice to do few levels well than all of them badly.

[Shatterhand]

I had never played the Amiga version of Saint Dragon...

And to be quite honest, I never played the arcade version either...

But I've played the PC-Engine version... and the MSX version.

And the MSX version is the SLOWEST SHMUP ever.... not to mention it has NO SOUND...

It was probably made by the same guys who made MSX Double Dragon... those are the 2 worst ports EVER...

Completely off-topic, but I just had to say it...

[MJR]

I had never played the Amiga version of Saint Dragon...

And to be quite honest, I never played the arcade version either...

But I've played the PC-Engine version... and the MSX version.

And the MSX version is the SLOWEST SHMUP ever.... not to mention it has NO SOUND...

It was probably made by the same guys who made MSX Double Dragon... those are the 2 worst ports EVER...

Completely off-topic, but I just had to say it...

I guess you should then try it out on Mame. Or Raine. The game is anything but slow..

[Shatterhand]

I will.... and you should try the MSX version for some laughs.....

Funny how Saint Dragon and Silkworm for amiga are both regarded as better than the original arcade by many people...And both were ported by The Sales Curve.....

I guess this says something.... they also ported Indy Heat, which was a spot-on port

[ST Dragon]

By the way, was Sales Curve an English group or American?
On the Saint Dragon Flyer it says "London" but I'm not sure...

I remember my friend had installed Silk Worm on his A600 HD, but I never figured how as I remember it was not HD installable.