RGB Image Centering (EXTRON RGB devices)

[Tempest_2084]

I read over on another site that someone was working on a RGB Shifter which would allow you to adjust the horizontal centering of an RGB image. Someone chimed in and said that there are already cheap devices that do this called the EXTRON RGB series. Searching on ebay I saw a number of different models ranging from $20 to several hundred dollars. My questions are:

1. Do all these devices allow you to adjust the horizontal and vertical position?
2. If so, which is the cheapest one that will do this?
3. Is there any loss in image quality or lag when using one of these?

Currently I'm using SCART cables and a Sync Strike connected to my PVM 1943MD monitor. I'm not sure where something like this would go in that chain

[Fudoh]

I read over on another site that someone was working on a RGB Shifter which would allow you to adjust the horizontal centering of an RGB image.

nothing new about that. Moosmann will have some more of his legendary shifter this summer as well!

1. Do all these devices allow you to adjust the horizontal and vertical position?

most units only have horizontal adjustments. Only a handful have vertical as well.

2. If so, which is the cheapest one that will do this?

yes.

3. Is there any loss in image quality or lag when using one of these?

no.

On the Extrons you need clean sync.

[Tempest_2084]

On the Extrons you need clean sync.

Clean sync ins't a problem as I'm using the Sync Strike.

Maybe I'm better off waiting for this new shifter that's coming out? I'm not looking for anything fancy, just something that can adjust the positioning. Do any of these do size adjustments as well or do you have to do that on the CRT?

Also, what's the cheapest EXTRON that does both horizontal and Vertical?

[Fudoh]

Maybe I'm better off waiting for this new shifter that's coming out?

Classic shifters (including Moosmann's) work on CRTs only.

Do any of these do size adjustments as well or do you have to do that on the CRT?

that's technically not possible. To be more exact: vertical resizing requires deinterlacing, scaling and down conversion to 15khz again. Hoirzontal resizing is probably possible by adjusting the sync width, but I wouldn't know of any machine to do it.

Also, what's the cheapest EXTRON that does both horizontal and Vertical?

probably the 201rxi.

[Tempest_2084]

Classic shifters (including Moosmann's) work on CRTs only.

I am using a CRT. It's a PVM-1943MD.

that's technically not possible. To be more exact: vertical resizing requires deinterlacing, scaling and down conversion to 15khz again. Hoirzontal resizing is probably possible by adjusting the sync width, but I wouldn't know of any machine to do it.

Good to know.

[Fudoh]

And your PVM doesn't offer picture position on it's own ?

[Tempest_2084]

And your PVM doesn't offer picture position on it's own ?

It does, but unfortunately only through knobs that are inside the case (on the circuit board). Not exactly convenient to get to.

[Tempest_2084]

Sorry to bump my old thread here, but I have another question. I was considering picking up this Extron unit off ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTRON-RGB-201- ... 1139937314

However I noticed the input looks like a VGA style plug (DE-15) and not the BNC cables I was expecting (looks like it has BNC out though). I'm currently using a Sync Strike to clean the sync on my SCART cables (so it's System > SCART cable > Sync Strike > PVM monitor) which has a DE-15 connector as it's output. I have a DE-15 connector to BNC cable that I use to go form my Sync Strike to my PVM.

I assume the Extron unit would go between the Sync Strike and the PVM since the Extron needs a clean sync signal. Can I use a DE-15 to DE-15 style cable to go from my Sync Strike to the Extron and then just get some standard BNC cables to go from the Extron to the PVM or is it more complicated than that?

Did that make sense to anyone? What I really want to do is to be able to control the vertical and horizontal position of the image on the screen without having to crack open my monitor every time. It's a HUGE pain and practically every system seems to have a different horizontal center.

[Fudoh]

that was a long posting for a short question, wasn't it ? Answer: yes & yes.

[Tempest_2084]

that was a long posting for a short question, wasn't it ? Answer: yes & yes.

I suppose. I just wanted to be thorough.

So the 201rxi is still most likely my cheapest choice? Is this a good price for one?

[Fudoh]

The 201 is one of Extron's best interfaces. The one you linked to says "not working or for parts" on top - you saw that ?

[Tempest_2084]

The 201 is one of Extron's best interfaces. The one you linked to says "not working or for parts" on top - you saw that ?

Gah! No I didn't! Thanks for pointing that out. I'll have to keep looking then.

[speedlolita]

And your PVM doesn't offer picture position on it's own ?

It does, but unfortunately only through knobs that are inside the case (on the circuit board). Not exactly convenient to get to.

Pfft, crack the back off, feed it 240p and get twiddling!

[Tempest_2084]

And your PVM doesn't offer picture position on it's own ?

It does, but unfortunately only through knobs that are inside the case (on the circuit board). Not exactly convenient to get to.

Pfft, crack the back off, feed it 240p and get twiddling!

I actually thought of dripping holes in the back and making the knob something I could adjust through the hole, but even then it's on the back of the monitor and not easy to get to.

I'll have to look for a cheap Extron. If the 201rxi is the cheapest model that will do what I want then I'll get that one. Looks like they can be had for under $50 if you look hard enough. Not expensive at all.

[Tempest_2084]

Another quick question on this. I've seen a few 201 RXI's pop up on ebay and they say that they power up, but they don't say if they work or not. How hardy are these devices? If it powers up is it probably going to work or does that really not mean anything?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121376576928
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121376507232

[SGGG2]

Those are most likely pulls from production environments who have either upgraded their equipment or have been financially liquidated. As long as it was from a working environment it probably good. Make no mistake, getting a dud every once in a while is bound to happen. If you want one that's 100% or don't want to go through returns, it makes sense to just pay more.

[Tempest_2084]

What do these units usually go for?

[Tempest_2084]

If I was just interested in horizontal centering would a Extron RGB 160xi work? It appears to take a VGA style plug (which is what I have from my Syncstrike) and output RGB. It's cheaper than a 201 although it doesn't do vertical centering (which isn't a problem on my CRT as far as I can tell).

[Fudoh]

sure, it's fine.

[Tempest_2084]

I got my hands on a 201 RXI but I have a question. My old cable plugged into the RGB and External Sync ports on my monitor, but the Extron has RGB and H,V,S. Which of these are the correct external sync?

[Fudoh]

S is for composite sync which you usually use for 15khz signals or on the XRGB-Mini.
H/V are seperated sync signals which you usually use for 31khz VGA signals.

[Tempest_2084]

Ok gotcha. Thank you.

Speaking of the Extron, I noticed it has speaker hook ups. Is there any real reason to hook speakers up to it rather than just have the stereo out from Sync Strike go directly to my speakers like I've been doing? Does the Extron unit enhance the sound or provide better sound at all?

[Fudoh]

It's usually just used to convert unbalanced audio to balanced audio (XLR connectors on pro-equipment). If you don't need that you don't gain anything.

[Tempest_2084]

No I don't need anything like that.

I've got a problem though, it doesn't appear to be working. I hooked my Sync Strike to the Input on the Extron and the RGB and S outputs to the input on my Sony PVM. I didn't have a BNC cable so I used a few BNC to RCA adapters and a regular RCA cable. The Extron is getting a signal (gives me the H and V frequency) but I'm not getting anything on my PVM. Any idea what could be wrong?

[Fudoh]

Not exactly, but I've seen it before. It possible that the composite sync output doesn't like the input or your PVM doesn't like the Extron's output. If your monitor works with RGsB instead, you can try that (enable 2nd dip). Try the other dips as well. Also try the other two sync outputs. You might have to use a T-connector and feed H/V sync at the same time....

(and there are a few internal jumpers as well, which might cause incompaibility when configured wrong...)

[Tempest_2084]

It's a PVM 1943MD. What's RGsB and how do I hook that up? I'll try the H or V Sync just to see what happens.

[Fudoh]

RGsB has sync on green. It only uses 3 wires.

[Tempest_2084]

I don't think my PVM supports that, if it does I don't see a way to enable it.

The H and V didn't work. I'm getting absolutely no picture with any of them, not even a scrambled or distorted picture. I'm not sure what that implies.

EDIT: Apparently it implies that have a bad cable! I swapped out my Sync cable and it works!

[Fudoh]

If you have any 31khz source on hand, I would try that (on another display of course) to confirm basic function of the unit.

[Tempest_2084]

Got it working. It was just a bad cable.