Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[niall]

I just picked up *FOUR* BVM-D20F1A here in Australia for $450! *dance-of-joy*

[Lawfer]

My problem with a 20" for regular console 480p gaming (let alone 16:9 content) is that the 20" is too small for my liking. 27" or so is about the sweet spot for me. So I find myself wondering how the D32 fares in that regard. For progressive input, the scanline considerations of e.g. 240p gaming wouldn't matter much (I'm just trying to figure out how I'd arrange three sets for gaming, heh).

Even if you get the 24" and play 480p 4:3 games on it you are going to get the same picture size as you would from the 20", your only other choice would be to get the 32", which will give you the biggest 480p 4:3 picture possible on a broadcast monitor (with black bars on the sides of course). The only reason I would get a 32" is to play Vita and PSP games on it with a Vita TV/Playstation TV (the PSP and Vita native aspect ratio is very close to 16:9, every other SD console is 4:3).

For HD gaming just get an LCD/LED/OLED/RGB LED or PLASMA.

I just picked up *FOUR* BVM-D20F1A here in Australia for $450! *dance-of-joy*

Very nice, what are the operation time and condition of each?

[niall]

I just picked up *FOUR* BVM-D20F1A here in Australia for $450! *dance-of-joy*

Very nice, what are the operation time and condition of each?

TBD - should get them in a few weeks once shipped. Risky, but they are as rare as hens teeth and spread all over the continent down here... Even for spare parts it seems like a good deal to me.

[Fudoh]

just make sure to have them properly moved, TUBE DOWN on a wooden palette.

[niall]

just make sure to have them properly moved, TUBE DOWN on a wooden palette.

Yep we don't need to lose any more

[Taiyaki]

Why should the tube be facing down? I always thought the proper way was to ship it in the normal way the tv sits and for it to stay straight.

[Fudoh]

So nothing hits the tube ? I received all my previous monitors like this. Seems to be common sense. They're also better balanced this way. All those Trinitron tubes are extremely front heavy.

[Lawfer]

So nothing hits the tube ? I received all my previous monitors like this. Seems to be common sense. They're also better balanced this way. All those Trinitron tubes are extremely front heavy.

What if they get sent inside a flight case?

[andy251203]

Can anyone who has a BVM-20XXX model follow these steps and tell me what they get?

-Display a 240p RGB image, preferably a fully white screen from a Genesis or SNES

-Adjust the Vcenter upwards until the highest visible scanline is halfway cut off in the corner of the screen

-Look at the scanline in the corner and see if it jitters up and down.

I have three BVM-20F1Us and a BVM-14F5U and I am getting this particular behavior on all of them. I think it's just a characteristic of BVMs and them not being designed to display 240p. I don't get this behavior on PVMs.

[badwhite40]

Hi mates!
I have a flight case for two pioneer V402. It's located in San Sebastian (SPAIN).
If someone in this forum want the case I ll give like a gift.
I have sold both monitors (thx again Fudoh) and I have the box empty looking for a new owner.
It's heavy and really big and can be expensive sending. As you want

[Zets13]

Thanks! I'm going to try that now.

I wonder what causes it. Do you know if it happens with an nesrgb?

It worked, but I need to have this much showing on either side, at least on my 20L2:

Is the issue caused by the NES outputting so much of its signal to what is typically overscan area? ie. the turquoise bars in Mario 3?

I'm honestly not sure what causes it. It does it with all models of the NES/Famicom and with both types of RGB mods.

Thanks for this info! I saw this on mine with the NESRGB and figured it was something wrong with my monitor.

[jedman]

Hi

I've noticed what looks like very faint flickering which is noticeable on a white background on my BVM-D20F1U. This is only located at the top of the screen for a cm or 2.

I can notice it on progressive signals only as the interlaced flicker covers it up.

Anyone know what this could be?

Many thanks

[niall]

My shipment arrived today: 2 * BVM-D20F1A and 2 * BVM-20F1E

I've got a BKM-10R on the way, but what cable do I need for this - RS-422 is what the spec sheets say, but I've read others using regular RS-232?

And what about daisy-chaining the BKM-10R to the other 3 BVMs via the Remote sockets - spec sheets say RS-485? Anyone know for sure if RS-232 is a no-no for all of these links?

[Fudoh]

For the 10R I bought a $3 cable on ebay. Standard RS232, straight connections, no crossed lines (no Nullmodem cable). Don't know about the other ports, sorry.

[jedman]

How come there is no sharpness setting on a BVM unlike a consumer trinitron set?

[Fudoh]

Aperture knob just in front of the control panel.

[jedman]

Aperture knob just in front of the control panel.

This doesn't seem to work for 240p RGB signals though.

[Fudoh]

I think you need a NTSC decoder board installed, but after that it should work with RGB as well. I've used this function, but I never used a composite source...

[jedman]

Any idea on this one Fudoh?

Hi

I've noticed what looks like very faint flickering which is noticeable on a white background on my BVM-D20F1U. This is only located at the top of the screen for a cm or 2.

I can notice it on progressive signals only as the interlaced flicker covers it up.

Anyone know what this could be?

Many thanks

[Taiyaki]

I'm close to giving up on BVM's. I bought a second BVM-20G1U this time from a different location, different seller, different generation (first was from 1998 this one is from 2003 with the latest firmware revision too), yet it has the IDENTICAL problem as the other one. Which is to say the picture on the left side has some minor warping as if going over a pencil or something. The right side no matter how much I alter geometry never has any problems like it.

I was wondering if it could be power related as in too many volts or not enough volts are being supplied to that part of the screen but I don't understand these things enough to know how to find this out. With two units having the identical problem I'm also wondering if this isn't a peculiarity of the BVM-G models.

[TheShadowRunner]

I'm close to giving up on BVM's. I bought a second BVM-20G1U this time from a different location, different seller, different generation (first was from 1998 this one is from 2003 with the latest firmware revision too), yet it has the IDENTICAL problem as the other one. Which is to say the picture on the left side has some minor warping as if going over a pencil or something. The right side no matter how much I alter geometry never has any problems like it.

I was wondering if it could be power related as in too many volts or not enough volts are being supplied to that part of the screen but I don't understand these things enough to know how to find this out. With two units having the identical problem I'm also wondering if this isn't a peculiarity of the BVM-G models.

Taiyaki, my 2 cents on the matter:
I own a 20F1E and a 20L4, respectively from 2002 and 2003 with low hours and in great condition, both have been serviced regularly. And yet like you I notice this small stretching issue on a least one side (left for the BVM and top for the PVM), no matter how many hours I spend tweaking the Alignement/Geometry
I came to the conclusion that it's just not possible to get *perfect* geometry on an analog CRT screen 20" and more.
I believe because our eyes/brain have been used to perfect geometry for so long on digital monitors LCD, HDTC, etc, not only we can detect the smallest issue in the glimpse of an eye, we just set the bar too high thinking high-end pro CRT monitors can achieve the same level of exactness/perfection.
Furthermore the problem is completely invisible with 3D/poygon based consoles, but is pretty evident with pure 2D systems like the SFC, exemple any town in FF4/5/6: there is always gonna be a small deformation on the screen somewhere if you keep walking straight for a while, say up or left.
I have learned to live with it and it doesn't bother me anymore, it's just a small flaw inherent to analog technology I believe.
I remember reading about a member on the framemeister thread getting to the same conclusion regarding his BVM/PVM monitors and interested in getting a mini for himself solely for this reason.
Now, I believe like him, to achieve *perfect* alignement, a mini + digital monitor is the only way.
This is from my experience and I would love to be proved wrong btw, I really hope fudoh could craft with his expertise an alignment-tweaking guide eventually!

[Xan]

I'd agree with this. A CRT is never the display of choice if perfect geometry is of utmost importance, but I find some imperfections in that regard tolerable as the other advantages more than make up for it.

[jedman]

I have the same thing with my BVM, right side is almost perfectly straight, left is slightly warped so you get the distortion in motion on the left side of the screen. My old consumer trinitron was 10x worse though.

[jedman]

Anyone seen these before? http://www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model ... -10841.pdf

[Xan]

330W power consumption

Yes, I've seen a number of these HDM-2830 on German ebay just recently. This really seems to be the cream of the crop. Also interesting how the brochure is from 1998, yet that monitor still has the old early 90s (?) Trinitron logo.

What kind of resolutions is that monitor capable of? 720p/1080i?

[Fudoh]

Those late HDM and BVM-D are basically the same in terms of specs, but the HDM was lower end tubes (PVM-style TVL specs).

The 2830 is about 4-5 years older though than the ones in the brochure.

480i/p, 576i/p, 720p, 1080i are accepted.

[Bancho]

Hi guys,

I've just won a 20" JVC BM-H2000PN-K off ebay for 99p. Seller said it powers on but had no means to test the inputs. If it is no good it's 99p down the drain, but if it works its a monitor for 99p Has anyone had any experience with this monitor?

Thanks

[Taiyaki]

I'm close to giving up on BVM's. I bought a second BVM-20G1U this time from a different location, different seller, different generation (first was from 1998 this one is from 2003 with the latest firmware revision too), yet it has the IDENTICAL problem as the other one. Which is to say the picture on the left side has some minor warping as if going over a pencil or something. The right side no matter how much I alter geometry never has any problems like it.

I was wondering if it could be power related as in too many volts or not enough volts are being supplied to that part of the screen but I don't understand these things enough to know how to find this out. With two units having the identical problem I'm also wondering if this isn't a peculiarity of the BVM-G models.

Taiyaki, my 2 cents on the matter:
I own a 20F1E and a 20L4, respectively from 2002 and 2003 with low hours and in great condition, both have been serviced regularly. And yet like you I notice this small stretching issue on a least one side (left for the BVM and top for the PVM), no matter how many hours I spend tweaking the Alignement/Geometry
I came to the conclusion that it's just not possible to get *perfect* geometry on an analog CRT screen 20" and more.
I believe because our eyes/brain have been used to perfect geometry for so long on digital monitors LCD, HDTC, etc, not only we can detect the smallest issue in the glimpse of an eye, we just set the bar too high thinking high-end pro CRT monitors can achieve the same level of exactness/perfection.
Furthermore the problem is completely invisible with 3D/poygon based consoles, but is pretty evident with pure 2D systems like the SFC, exemple any town in FF4/5/6: there is always gonna be a small deformation on the screen somewhere if you keep walking straight for a while, say up or left.
I have learned to live with it and it doesn't bother me anymore, it's just a small flaw inherent to analog technology I believe.
I remember reading about a member on the framemeister thread getting to the same conclusion regarding his BVM/PVM monitors and interested in getting a mini for himself solely for this reason.
Now, I believe like him, to achieve *perfect* alignement, a mini + digital monitor is the only way.
This is from my experience and I would love to be proved wrong btw, I really hope fudoh could craft with his expertise an alignment-tweaking guide eventually!

That message is greatly appreciated. Xan and Jedman's as well. This has helped me put things back into perspective. I heard about BVM's by reading about them in news articles and Fudoh was often quoted mentionning how perfect geometry was on these, but in reality perfect for a CRT is still not LCD/PLASMA perfect. I hadn't gamed on a real crt since 2007 and so little by little I forgot about how geometry can be out of place on these. Now a days we want pure blacks, colors and high response rates and we take geoemetry for granted.

By the way TheShadowRunner, what do you mean when you say serviced regularly? Do you mean you clean the insides and check capacitors? Also what are low hours on BVM's? Under 30k?

[Bancho]

I just picked up these two PVM's today for £20. One is a PVM-20M2E and the other is PVM-14M2E. Just need to get the correct cables now to hook a console up.

Really pleased with them though. The 20" has a property of eidos sticker on lol.

Sorry about the poor pic. My phone is rubbish at pictures

[TheShadowRunner]

By the way TheShadowRunner, what do you mean when you say serviced regularly? Do you mean you clean the insides and check capacitors? Also what are low hours on BVM's? Under 30k?

No, I meant a pro technician looked at them at least once a year to recalibrate colors, alignement etc.. mines were in a broadcast studio. My BVM has 25k which can be considered rather low for these beasts afaik.