SNES PAL/NTSC RGB cable difference?

[Thomago]

I just got a US-SNES (1-CHIP, on the first try, from another german - I'm super happy!).

I don't own a dedicated SNES RGB cable so I used a Nintendo Gamecube RGB cable (DOL-013) as an alleged makeshift solution, but - lo and behold! - the picture I get on my XRGB-mini is perfect.
The same cable was used before to connect a PAL-SNES to my XRGB-mini and, apart from the usual "PAL system checkerboard noise" that could probably be ditched by using a sync stripper, the picture was perfect as well.

Based on the discussions in the XRGB-mini thread and the fact that you can order dedicated PAL and NTSC SNES RGB cables I thought that there was vast difference leading at least to obvious picture quality problems when using an RGB cable / SNES combo that doesn't match region-wise, but I don't see any.

Am I missing something and the picture I deem perfect isn't?
Or was this to be expected?
What's going on here?

[darcagn]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... t.htm#snes

The components that are in the SCART connector are slightly different, most notably the PAL cables have resistors on the RGB lines which will make it dark on an NTSC system

[Thomago]

Weird... normally I have an eye for stuff like this, but judging from the one SNES game I have here - that'd be F-Zero (right now you can get it new quite cheap from ebay btw) - I don't see anything that's too dark. Even compared with emulator screenshots.

[blizzz]

Is your PAL SNES a 1CHIP unit? I've heard that the later PAL revisions also work with a Gamecube cable.

The PAL SNES was internally revised 4 or more times during its lifetime. Later consoles used a different video encoder chip and supporting circuitry and 'appear' to work fine with an unmodified PAL Gamecube/NTSC SNES Scart cable (with capacitors)

[Thomago]

It's 1-CHIP, but an NTSC unit.

[blizzz]

It doesn't matter on the NTSC consoles. They will all work with a Gamecube cable. The PAL console on the other hand should be too bright with the Gamecube cable unless it's one of the later revisions.

[Thomago]

Ah, that seems to solve the "mystery". Thank you!

[darcagn]

Whoops, my apologies, I was thinking a PAL SNES cable, not a PAL GameCube cable. Yes, the PAL GameCube cable is similar (but not perfectly identical) to the NTSC SNES cable, so you're all good there.

[Lawfer]

NTSC Gamecube cant output analog RGB anyways, they can however output digital RGB.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Does SNES really ouput analogue RGB colour without modding? Like, via SCART? N64 doesn't (I read), therefore I'm cautious.
(I've had it with US Saturn hooked up via PAL SCART lead, where the picture was sometimes RGB, sometimes composite. Strikingly so.)

[Fudoh]

Does SNES really ouput analogue RGB colour without modding? Like, via SCART?

of course it does. Always has.

[Lawfer]

Does SNES really ouput analogue RGB colour without modding? Like, via SCART?

of course it does. Always has.

Fudoh-dono, it should be mentioned just in case that apparently the SNES Mini does not output RGB whitout modding. (kind of how like the regular Saturn outputs RGB, while the HiSaturn Navi does not output RGB whitout modding).

Does SNES really ouput analogue RGB colour without modding? Like, via SCART? N64 doesn't (I read), therefore I'm cautious.
(I've had it with US Saturn hooked up via PAL SCART lead, where the picture was sometimes RGB, sometimes composite. Strikingly so.)

Get a japanese scart RGB21 cable, I use it with a US Saturn with no problems.

N64 doesn't (I read), therefore I'm cautious.

Actually the Nintendo 64 can output RGB, with modding... Problem is, its risky because only the first manufactured Nintendo 64 consoles can be modded to output RGB. So totally not worth it considering that the Nintendo 64 library is kind of like FM Towns Marty-ish... you know theres, Mario, Kirby, Goemon... Mario... yeah.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Saturn-wise, I'm happy with an German-made lead for NTSC-units & Euro-TVs, thanks. Just been wondering about SNES.

[darcagn]

Does SNES really ouput analogue RGB colour without modding? Like, via SCART?

of course it does. Always has.

All SNES model 1 styles have full RGB with composite sync available, with the exception of the uncommon SNES 1CHIP-03 which needs a 1-wire mod to enable composite sync.
All SNES model 2 styles (mini) need a mod for RGB entirely.


The 1CHIP and mini SNES are the ones most coveted for the best RGB output, though.

[Thedissident]

All SNES model 1 styles have full RGB with composite sync available, with the exception of the uncommon SNES 1CHIP-03 which needs a 1-wire mod to enable composite sync.

Why did Nintendo get rid of CSYNC on the 1CHIP-03, for what reason?

[Mishrak109]

I'm almost willing to bet that they left out stuff like that as cost cutting measures in manufacturing for consoles released late in the life of the system. Especially the NA market.

That's the only reason I can think of as to why they would have produced the SNES Mini without S-Video or RGB even connected to the multi-out port. Most people in the US at least would have had Composite as the best available video quality. Maybe S-Video, but certainly no RGB / SCART availability in the late 90's. Perhaps some enthusiasts would have had it, but as a kid, all I ever remember was composite and RF.

[Xan]

A better question is really why they left RGB out of the N64 when the predecessor console had it...

[mvsfan]

also the Pal snes has 12V on the pin that goes to Csync on the NTSC snes.

you cant use a csync cable on a pal snes without modding it.

Im dealing with that now. I have a pal snes i bought years ago and finally decided to try and get it working here since i supposedly have a multistandard PVM.

my pvm however wont sync to it through composite or s-video. All i own are CSYNC snes cables.

Im thinking it wont work on s-video or composite because im using a modded nes power supply with it on 60hz power but i have no way to test that.

im going to put sync on luma instead and see if that works. RGB doesnt qualify as ntsc or pal so it should work.

[FBX]

All SNES model 1 styles have full RGB with composite sync available, with the exception of the uncommon SNES 1CHIP-03 which needs a 1-wire mod to enable composite sync.

Why did Nintendo get rid of CSYNC on the 1CHIP-03, for what reason?

Likely just forgot. I doubt it saved all that much money because it was only a half-inch trace line that was missing.

[mvsfan]

I got my pal snes working here in the usa. I had to

A. modify the tip on an Nes power supply to 2.5mm (the specs are the same except for 50/60hz)
B. get an Sync on luma RGB cable since svideo and composite wont work even on a pvm because of the 50/60 hz difference.
C. play games.

it works great except the video has borders on top and bottom.

Great.

i learned something. the pal snes needs resistors in the cable on RGB or the picture will be too bright.

[blizzz]

it works great except the video has borders on top and bottom.

These are PAL borders, that's just what we had to live with in Europe. Why are you even playing games in 50Hz?

[mvsfan]

oh, i just bought the thing a long time ago before i knew all the quirks about it. I dont plan on using this all the time.

It was more of "i want to see if i can get this working or if the console even works.

Ill probably end up selling it with the us power supply and scart cable.

my other snes's are NTSC.

by the way, another thing i discovered is that the game still plays with borders, but the game runs at the correct 60hz speed anyway with the us adapter. theres no sound pitch issues or it playing 10% slower or anything like that.

Update: I played the game more and its definately playing slower. the sound is ok though.

mabeye thats just because cybernator was optimized for it i dont know. thats the only pal game i have.