Component 240p (480i) and Elgato Game Capture HD

[CkRtech]

Hey all -

I was wondering if any of you elgato guys have tried capturing pre-ps3 component output from any consoles. I have modified a SNES for Component output (which tests just fine), however the elgato unit gives me a black screen when the SNES is running. I have firmware 130527 as they mentioned "240p support" was one reason to updated your firmware, however I cannot seem to get things to kick in. I suppose the output is technically NTSC 480i.

I use RGB SNES to a Framemeister for my primary console, but I modified this one so I could give it to a friend for his own elgato capturing needs.

Looking for input (no pun intended). Comments welcome.

[blizzz]

You won't find many devices that support 240p on their component input. Looks like the 240p compatibility they claim is limited to composite and S-Video.

[Sixfortyfive]

Yeah, from other people I know who have this capture device, it can only capture 240p sources through composite. Maybe S-video too, but definitely not component.

[Fudoh]

Before you complain about the lacking support on the component input, have you actually seen what the Elgato does to 240p on the composite inputs ? (I haven't, just asking). Recognizing the signal is one thing, treating it correctly is another. There's this $50 RGB Scart to HDMI converter that works pretty good and I wouldn't be surprised if that looked at least as good (or better) compared to what the Elgato WOULD do with 240p on component if it worked.

The Shmup Master episodes are recorded using the mentioned converter. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50808

[blizzz]

240p is fine on the Elgato HD. It has a slight flicker to it, but it is proper 240 lines at 60fps. Around the same quality you would get from an EzCap, maybe slightly lower.

[Unseen]

240p is fine on the Elgato HD. It has a slight flicker to it, but it is proper 240 lines at 60fps. Around the same quality you would get from an EzCap, maybe slightly lower.

What versions of the capture software and device firmware (*) do you use? I haven't managed to convince mine to recognize 240p/288p signals as such using either S-Video or Composite. They always seem to be detected as the corresponding interlaced mode and the recordings have visible deinterlacing artifacts.

(*) hold Control, click the settings icon, firmware version is shown on the "Advanced" tab

[CkRtech]

Hey all. Thank you for your replies.

Unseen - I know you were asking blizzz, but I'll add that I am running Software 1.42.24 (539) in addition to firmware 130527.

Component (in this case) is essentially S-Video with better color delivery. The green plug (Y) is literally the same luma used in the S-Video line. I can plug the green (Y) plug into the red component plug input (goes to same pin as the composite adapter on the elgato multiout...) and get a nice black and white signal when selecting the composite input option in the software (as expected).

[blizzz]

240p recordings are stored as 480i. You can simply deinterlace it yourself like you would with an EzCap etc.

[Einzelherz]

Before you complain about the lacking support on the component input, have you actually seen what the Elgato does to 240p on the composite inputs ? (I haven't, just asking). Recognizing the signal is one thing, treating it correctly is another. There's this $50 RGB Scart to HDMI converter that works pretty good and I wouldn't be surprised if that looked at least as good (or better) compared to what the Elgato WOULD do with 240p on component if it worked.

The Shmup Master episodes are recorded using the mentioned converter. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50808

And yet you don't say what converter it is

[Fudoh]

this one: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 1024056289 . Should by available in other countries by different names or brands, but you can go by the look.

[Einzelherz]

this one: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 1024056289 . Should by available in other countries by different names or brands, but you can go by the look.

Not to derail the thread, but does it pull audio from the SCART plug and pass it through the hdmi? I'm curious how it compares to my csy-2100 clone.

[Fudoh]

audio is available on HDMI, analogue 3.5mm jack and coax SPDIF - all three at the same time.

I wouldn't compare it to an analogue transcoder. This is an upscaler. Of all the cheap ones certainly the one with the best quality. Watch an episode of Shmup Master on Youtube to see the quality.

No aspect ratio control though, so everything comes out widescreen.

[Einzelherz]

I can deal with the widescreen issue with my TV, I think. Is this converter pure integer scaling or does it stretch too? I like my CSY, the only real complaint is the screen curling I get on half the systems, which I assume wouldn't occur with a scaler. My biggest worry based off the reviews I've seen for this (the only "name" I've come across is CVID BG-460) is blurring and possible lag since it converts to digital (based on my limited understanding).

[Fudoh]

I would not recommend it for gaming. It does apply motion adaptive deinterlacing (so you're losing all the 30Hz flicker effects and objects get smoothed once they move) and it scales to fullscreen (output options are XGA, 720p, 1080p and maybe some others). No other options. There's certainly some lag (2-3 frames). It also does a straight framerate conversion to 59.94Hz, so it causes visible stutter on any smooth scrolling games.

I just find it interesting as an add-on for those HDMI h.264 encoders, because it brings 240p RGB compatibility with nice results FOR YOUTUBE (which isn't exactly the same as nice results for live playing).

[Fudoh]

But to put this into perspective: if you're right now using a CSY2100 (or clone) on a LCD TV, then the above converter is likely to perform better. EVentually it doesn't matter, if the signal gets deinterlaced externally or inside your TV. Same applies for the A/D conversion.

If I had to compare it to RGB on my Sony LCD, then I would say that Sony has better deinterlacing (keeps 30Hz flicker), but the external box is sharper and looks better.

What about your particular TV or monitor ? How does it handle the deinterlacing for 240p sources ? Do 30Hz shadows work ?

[Einzelherz]

Everything looks pretty good on my Panasonic Plasma. I don't know if the 30hz shadows work, but I suspect they don't. I've been playing a lot of Final Fantasy 5 and the Image buff causes a flashing shadow behind the sprites in combat on my CRT, but it's static on my Plasma. But when I pause I see that there are frames with and without it.

I don't know how to answer the deinterlacing question though. If you look at my CSY problems thread, that's the only issue my TV seems to have (some sources curling, some not).

Your negative points though probably have me sold on not wanting it.

[CkRtech]

Hope you guys don't mind if the OP jumps in and says - So I e-mailed elgato yesterday to see what they have to say about my issue. They could certainly say they don't recommend I use component with SNES, however they have made changes in the past in order to increase support - so who knows how they will respond.

OK. Carry on.

[Fudoh]

Well, if you complain about a SNES through component not working, you've got zero chance to get anything updated. You have to tell them that PS1 games running on a PS2 through component are not working and you're hearing that all over the place. That's a large enough user base to warrant an update

[CkRtech]

Ha. I never complain. I only ask questions. We'll see what they say. Could be they'll send me an animated GIF of someone laughing. Who knows?

[darcagn]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you got a favorable answer, elgato is primarily a Mac developer and a lot of those old Mac developers, since they're used to serving a much smaller niche audience, tend to listen a good bit.