HDMI PCB will soon be available for the N64

[Seraphic]

Thought some people might find this interesting, a collage graduate working freelance has come up with a HDMI/DVI/VGA ADAPTER FOR N64.

http://retroactive.be/tech_n64_hdmi.php

[eightbitminiboss]

Not so much available as to still in prototyping...

[blizzz]

I've been visiting his site from time to time. Might be a great product once it's done, but there's also a lot that could go (slightly) wrong. A Framemeister might be the better choice in the end, especially since most people will have more retro consoles than just one N64.

But I highly respect anyone who does stuff like this as a hobby project. No matter if it's perfect or not.

[Seraphic]

Not so much available as to still in prototyping...

Correct, updated the title.

I've been visiting his site from time to time. Might be a great product once it's done, but there's also a lot that could go (slightly) wrong. A Framemeister might be the better choice in the end, especially since most people will have more retro consoles than just one N64.

But I highly respect anyone who does stuff like this as a hobby project. No matter if it's perfect or not.

Might be a better option then having the system RGB modded. His mod should pass the unprocessed RGB video too and it says he is working on supplying digital audio as well.

[SGGG2]

mikejmoffitt has a similar project posted over at Neo-Geo.

[bobrocks95]

My biggest hope for this is that it's somewhat adaptable to other consoles, particularly the GameCube. That, and that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Also, I wonder what the lag is. I believe it uses full framebuffer for 480i deinterlacing, but how does it handle 240p stuff?

I've been visiting his site from time to time. Might be a great product once it's done, but there's also a lot that could go (slightly) wrong. A Framemeister might be the better choice in the end, especially since most people will have more retro consoles than just one N64.

But I highly respect anyone who does stuff like this as a hobby project. No matter if it's perfect or not.

Framemeister won't get you digital output (err, input in that case) is the big thing. You're right about adaptability though.

[Fudoh]

that it's somewhat adaptable to other consoles, particularly the GameCube

depends on the kind of deinterlacing you're expecting for 480i material. Nobody at home can develop a new pixel adaptive deinterlacing algorithm and use a powerful FPGA to implement it. What you can expect from any of those devices is the kind of deinterlacing the XRGB-2 and 3 applied to 480i material (doubling with single fields with adjustment of the vertical offset).

[SGGG2]

My biggest hope for this is that it's somewhat adaptable to other consoles, particularly the GameCube. That, and that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

OzOnE over at Assembler's working on a GC version of this board, among other projects. Don't bug him, if there was anything worth showing yet we'd already know about it.

[bobrocks95]

OzOnE over at Assembler's working on a GC version of this board, among other projects. Don't bug him, if there was anything worth showing yet we'd already know about it.

I didn't know he was on Assembler too, I found out about his project on gc-forever. And people over there have bugged him plenty. Definitely looking forward to it though, hopefully he hasn't hit too big of a snag.

that it's somewhat adaptable to other consoles, particularly the GameCube

depends on the kind of deinterlacing you're expecting for 480i material. Nobody at home can develop a new pixel adaptive deinterlacing algorithm and use a powerful FPGA to implement it. What you can expect from any of those devices is the kind of deinterlacing the XRGB-2 and 3 applied to 480i material (doubling with single fields with adjustment of the vertical offset).

Does HDMI only support 480p and up, that's why a deinterlacing method is required? I don't play any 480i only games on Gamecube anyway- I was really just wondering on whether or not any of these upcoming digital boards that are console specific could hook into another system's digital video as well, or if we'll have to wait for someone inspired to make a specialty board for every console out there.

[Fudoh]

I assume that any upcoming Cube HDMI project would just use the digital 480p signal already present on the system, so it's not exactly a similar project as a linedoubler for the N64 or the Neo Geo.

[SGGG2]

I didn't know he was on Assembler too, I found out about his project on gc-forever. And people over there have bugged him plenty. Definitely looking forward to it though, hopefully he hasn't hit too big of a snag.

Ah, that's where I saw it! Here's the thread: Gamecube Digital AV to direct HDMI / VGA mod

I assume that any upcoming Cube HDMI project would just use the digital 480p signal already present on the system, so it's not exactly a similar project as a linedoubler for the N64 or the Neo Geo.

Got mixed up, for some reason I though marshallh had shared tech with OzOnE.

[Unseen]

Does HDMI only support 480p and up, that's why a deinterlacing method is required?

No, HDMI can also support 480i/576i (and even 240p/288p). It's a bit of a special case though because each pixel must be sent twice, otherwise the clock frequency on the wire would be below the minimum required by the spec. Technically it's only supported in HDMI and not DVI(*), but at least with the HDMI sinks I've tested so far they happily accept such a signal even if it's transmitted as DVI. For some reason the XRGB Mini has a slight problem when switching from 480i to 480p in this situation though, the detected resolution changes from 720x480i to 360x480p which makes the nice round C in the FFCC title screen very pixelated. =(

(*) On a signal level the difference between HDMI and DVI is an additional "side channel" for data packets encoded in the blanking phases of the video signal, which among other things carries the audio signal that HDMI added over DVI. It's also mandatory for HDMI sources to send a signal information data packet so the sink knows about things like that pixel doubling for low-resolution signals.

I don't play any 480i only games on Gamecube anyway-

The system menu is always in 480i/576i, so that's an incentive to either support linedoubling or a working interlaced mode via HDMI. If I had the choice I'd want both - internal linedoubling for convenience, interlaced output in case there is an HDMI sink with better deinterlacing available.

I was really just wondering on whether or not any of these upcoming digital boards that are console specific could hook into another system's digital video as well, or if we'll have to wait for someone inspired to make a specialty board for every console out there.

The internal digital video format internally used by the consoles varies, for example the Gamecube uses an 8 bit bus clocked at twice the pixel rate transmitting 4:2:2 YCbCr-encoded video while the N64 internally uses a 7-bit video bus running at four times the pixel rate. The PS1 and PS2 on the other hand just have 24 bit parallel RGB internally which should be rather simple to process(**) if you have enough inpouts for it. In theory it should be possible to support more than one of these video signals with the same board (possibly with reprogramming to switch modes), but someone still needs to do the implementation to actually make it work.

(**) Disclaimer: I only looked at the schematics and haven't made any measurements on real hardware yet

(and now you've made me wonder how close the N64 video timings are to standard CEA/VESA modes... not every device likes HDMI signals with "weird" timings)

[bobrocks95]

Does HDMI only support 480p and up, that's why a deinterlacing method is required?

No, HDMI can also support 480i/576i (and even 240p/288p). It's a bit of a special case though because each pixel must be sent twice, otherwise the clock frequency on the wire would be below the minimum required by the spec. Technically it's only supported in HDMI and not DVI(*), but at least with the HDMI sinks I've tested so far they happily accept such a signal even if it's transmitted as DVI. For some reason the XRGB Mini has a slight problem when switching from 480i to 480p in this situation though, the detected resolution changes from 720x480i to 360x480p which makes the nice round C in the FFCC title screen very pixelated. =(

(*) On a signal level the difference between HDMI and DVI is an additional "side channel" for data packets encoded in the blanking phases of the video signal, which among other things carries the audio signal that HDMI added over DVI. It's also mandatory for HDMI sources to send a signal information data packet so the sink knows about things like that pixel doubling for low-resolution signals.

I don't play any 480i only games on Gamecube anyway-

The system menu is always in 480i/576i, so that's an incentive to either support linedoubling or a working interlaced mode via HDMI. If I had the choice I'd want both - internal linedoubling for convenience, interlaced output in case there is an HDMI sink with better deinterlacing available.

I was really just wondering on whether or not any of these upcoming digital boards that are console specific could hook into another system's digital video as well, or if we'll have to wait for someone inspired to make a specialty board for every console out there.

The internal digital video format internally used by the consoles varies, for example the Gamecube uses an 8 bit bus clocked at twice the pixel rate transmitting 4:2:2 YCbCr-encoded video while the N64 internally uses a 7-bit video bus running at four times the pixel rate. The PS1 and PS2 on the other hand just have 24 bit parallel RGB internally which should be rather simple to process(**) if you have enough inpouts for it. In theory it should be possible to support more than one of these video signals with the same board (possibly with reprogramming to switch modes), but someone still needs to do the implementation to actually make it work.

(**) Disclaimer: I only looked at the schematics and haven't made any measurements on real hardware yet

(and now you've made me wonder how close the N64 video timings are to standard CEA/VESA modes... not every device likes HDMI signals with "weird" timings)

It's a bit over my head, but still fun to read technical stuff like that. Thanks for sharing so much info! Sounds like things are unfortunately very specialized, so any developments will have to be on a console-by-console basis... Maybe we'll see a flood of them once one comes out? Lots of consoles in proof-of-concept stages, but nothing seems to have come to fruition yet...

Ah, that's where I saw it! Here's the thread: Gamecube Digital AV to direct HDMI / VGA mod

There's also another, more outdated, thread on Assemblergames with OzOnE's work on the N64. Guess he changed gears? http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... onsoles%29