The Circular Debacle in Japan Thread: This Week - Sexism

[GaijinPunch]

As a lot of people here are somewhat enamored of Japan (hey, I devoted some of my soul to this place) I'm surprised this one hasn't popped up yet. It's no secret that a relatively visible demographic of Japan (more distinctly, the old bastards running it) are fucking retards. Xenophobia has always been on the table... since Japan and the west have had a relationship. I'm sure there were all kinds of Perry jokes back in the day.

Anywho, anyone that's spent time in Japan knows that if you're a woman, you're basically fucked if you want any kind of professional life (definitely after having a kid). How fucked? Well, Japan ranked 105 out of 136 in women's rights recently which should be an eye opener for any of the fairer sex hoping to find gainful employment in Japan*. But, for those of you that are in the Homer Simpson Camp when it comes to facts, leave it to crusty old men in Parliament to give you a front row seat into the psyche of the Japanese Oyaji.

Japan has been doing the moonwalk back to the 1950's when it cums to social policy for a while now. "Random" searches on the street of white people (I got hit a week ago), forcing round eyes to carry foreign registration cards at all time, and blow job places refusing entry to foreigners are nothing new. I think this one takes them to new lows though.

*WAY easier/better getting a job in a foreign cumpany.

[Skykid]

Shocking.

And to think we have women in the west ranting about the role of females in Mario games.

[rancor]

"Random" searches on the street of white people (I got hit a week ago)

No shit - I had mall security called on me yesterday for getting too many Y100 coins out of a change machine.

I got a PM from someone on AO.com asking for me to get them Y10,000 in Y100 coins, so I figured while I was waiting around for my kid get done with his swim class I'd go get some coins out of one of the machines at the local arcade. There was an old man standing close by, and I didn't think anything of him. I was at about Y7000 when he says loudly "Why do you need so many coins?" I just laughed and said "I don't know - crazy, huh?" he just stood and stared at me for a bit, then walked off about 15 paces and pulled out his flip-phone. "yeah - blue hat, green shirt.. foreigner" I could hear him say.

Anyhow, Japanese cops / security being what they are they never showed.

[Skykid]

WTF? Is it really so serious? Sounds nuts.

I thought they were meant to be combating xenophobia to encourage foreign employment to stoke the grinding economy. What next, arm bands with a star of David equivalent?

[BulletMagnet]

And to think we have women in the west ranting about the role of females in Mario games.

Just because a particular issue is more pronounced elsewhere doesn't mean there's no reason to address lesser incarnations of it to some degree (whether said degree has been appropriate in the case you mention is another story), but yeah, Japan is not exactly known as a shining beacon of progress when it comes to gender equality.

As far as the xenophobia/jingoism branch-off goes, I read a quick item in the paper this morning that some recent study or other has the right wing over there demanding that the country revise or retract its apology (which didn't come until 1993 or so) to Korean women forced to work as sex slaves during World War II...when the hell did the Tea Party become a global force?

[GaijinPunch]

There are a handful of guys in Parliament that are saying the whole "comfort women" thing is a farce. These are probably the guys saying they should retract the policy. The Japanese public is to blame - they vote this dip shits into office. Read up on Osaka's mayor (Hashimoto) and the ex-mayor of Tokyo (Ishihara) for some serious lolz.

[Jonathan Ingram]

As far as the xenophobia/jingoism branch-off goes, I read a quick item in the paper this morning that some recent study or other has the right wing over there demanding that the country revise or retract its apology (which didn't come until 1993 or so) to Korean women forced to work as sex slaves during World War II...when the hell did the Tea Party become a global force?

That's the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan for you. Par for the course, really. I wouldn't want these guys any other way.

[BryanM]

And to think we have women in the west ranting about the role of females in Mario games.

when the hell did the Tea Party become a global force?

Conservatives have always been like that matey. Absolutely nothing has changed about that in the last century.

Conservative terrorists blow up buildings and murder cops at the local CiCi's. Liberal terrorists do stuff like setting a bridge on fire to make it look like a dong.



And take romantic pictures of themselves in the moonlight.

[BryanM]

Or the donglight if that's your thing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Topically, I thought this recent op-ed in Bloomberg was interesting, perhaps even hopeful. But there are some strange notes in there (Reagan?) and I am somewhat skeptical of "leadership from the top." That being said, I do see stuff now and then that leads me to believe a lot of people in Japan take this stuff seriously - but I don't live there and anecdotes don't really pile up to counter the day-to-day existence. We saw that in the US with the Civil Rights movement, where long after "civil rights were over" there still were far too many bad incidents.

Conservative terrorists blow up buildings and murder cops at the local CiCi's. Liberal terrorists do stuff like setting a bridge on fire to make it look like a dong.

So true. And then they blame the APOCALYPTIC HAPPENINGS! caused my fellow righties on Society Going Down the Tubes, so they buy more ammo and level up their Prepper Skill even more. If we're lucky this just means that you see more random comments on train videos along the lines of "See those auto hauling cars on the train (autoracks)? THEY'RE FOR TAKING US TO THE CAMPS!"

@ rancor: See, these Japanese are only doing for the good of their country. They know that you are shipping the coins away to other nations, and since Japan is a small country, they know that if they lose too much weight, parts of the islands might become loose and drift away into the ocean.

[quash]

I've been Go Home Yankee'd once, and I get stares on the train sometimes (in both the varieties of "Let's go to a love hotel" and "I thought you only existed in movies"), but I haven't been asked for my papers yet.

I haven't been denied service from anywhere yet either, and I've been to some pretty shady establishments. Maybe I'm just lucky? Or maybe they're all deathly afraid of me?

Most of the Japanese women I know are on a three year cycle of going to school in Japan, studying abroad for a year, then coming back and re-applying to study abroad. None of them have really gone in depth as to why, but I can only assume. They tend to let the dream die around 30, which is when they decide to get a job that puts their English proficiency to good use.

[BulletMagnet]

Semi-related.

[Aliquantic]

"Random" searches on the street of white people (I got hit a week ago), forcing round eyes to carry foreign registration cards at all time

Is that like the requirement to carry Green cards/work permits for US residents or worse?

[GaijinPunch]

"Random" searches on the street of white people (I got hit a week ago), forcing round eyes to carry foreign registration cards at all time

Is that like the requirement to carry Green cards/work permits for US residents or worse?

No. By law you're required to show them your gaijin card (which is now, in PC fashion, called "resident card") if they ask, but of course, they only ask you if you look like a gaijin. So yeah, racist by definition.

The searches are not mandatory, but if you want to stand up for your rights and refuse one, you're probably going to be there for a while (a couple of hours?) as they try to convince you you're doing it wrong. Japanese justice exists, but it's not designed for the individual level - it's designed for the societal level. You have the right to an attorney if you're arrested, but he doesn't have your individual rights in mind when he's arguing for you. He's looking for the best way to smooth over the situation for everyone, which generally means you should admit guilt as soon as possible.

Semi-related.

LOL. Yeah, I saw this one.

[Skykid]

What is the purpose of the Gaijin card and random inspections? To weed out illegal immigrants?

[GaijinPunch]

What is the purpose of the Gaijin card and random inspections? To weed out illegal immigrants?

The purpose of the gaijin card is like any card - to prove that you're legally entitled to remain in the cuntry. By law white, black, and brown people are required by law to carry one of the two on them at all times. Other asians are too but you likely won't get stopped if you're Chinese or Korean unless they hear you speak. Southeast asians will be discriminated upon probably worse than whities.

Most of the time the random searches are for some type of quota or thing going on. I remember my waifu at the time said I'd likely get searched b/c it was the first post 9/11 election, and tensions were high. Another time someone got stabbed a couple of days before and they were being extra safe. Neither were very thorough, which leads me to believe they just wanted to make sure I didn't have weapons. They'd have arrested me if they found other contra-band though (drugs). For the truly random searches, they're basically looking for drugs.

[neorichieb1971]

Japan doesn't want to evolve and you have a problem with that?

Women get to vote I assume?

This is a case of where " You know better because your Westernized". Your also living in a country crying "foul". In England we try to say "if you don't like it then fuck off".. But we are a bit shy to say it out loud.

I'm just trying to see it from both perspectives here.

[Xyga]

I don't find this gaijin card thing to be anything special, it's the same in almost every country (*cuntry) in the world.
It's done differently depending where you are but if you don't look 'local' or obvious minority you're going to get checked by the police once in a while, get treated differently in shops etc, and that's it.
Not saying it's good, but heh it's teh humanity.

Now if you're a hot blonde things are going to be a bit different, as you will inspire rape in most men's minds, and hatred in most women's.

[Skykid]

Japan doesn't want to evolve and you have a problem with that?

Women get to vote I assume?

This is a case of where " You know better because your Westernized". Your also living in a country crying "foul". In England we try to say "if you don't like it then fuck off".. But we are a bit shy to say it out loud.

I'm just trying to see it from both perspectives here.

Sorry Richie I don't agree with this. Everyone has a right to protect sovereign culture and I don't have an issue with that, but Japan is stuck somehwere in the fuedal period when it comes to recognising women/foreigners as potential demographics for growth.

Women getting to vote doesn't quite balance out when they're a discriminated sexualised gender with little to no wiggle room when it comes to equal opportunities.


Xyga: I don't understand the foreigner card thing - is it only for foriegn Japanese residents? What if you're just a tourist and they stopped you, you wouldn't have anything to show?

[Xyga]

Xyga: I don't understand the foreigner card thing - is it only for foriegn Japanese residents? What if you're just a tourist and they stopped you, you wouldn't have anything to show?

Well I suppose in this case you are just required to show a tourist visa (?)

[Skykid]

Xyga: I don't understand the foreigner card thing - is it only for foriegn Japanese residents? What if you're just a tourist and they stopped you, you wouldn't have anything to show?

Well I suppose in this case you are just required to show a tourist visa (?)

What in the fuck? I don't walk around with my passport whenever I go on holiday...

Seriously, I've never heard of anything like this before. It's ridiculous.

[Xyga]

Xyga: I don't understand the foreigner card thing - is it only for foriegn Japanese residents? What if you're just a tourist and they stopped you, you wouldn't have anything to show?

Well I suppose in this case you are just required to show a tourist visa (?)

What in the fuck? I don't walk around with my passport whenever I go on holiday...

Seriously, I've never heard of anything like this before. It's ridiculous.

Really ? Everywhere I've been outside of the EU for some period of time I was required to have a visa (tourist, student, worker, whatever).
Some countries have low requirements and don't bother foreigners much, other are really over-suspicious and annoying.

EDIT: waitaminit; you're in China so I bet you have a valid visa and are aware you're supposed to carry your passport at all times ?
Joke aside I definitely wasn't carrying mine around when I lived there, but it's better to have it when you travel away-enough from your residence.

[GaijinPunch]

Japan doesn't want to evolve and you have a problem with that?

Women get to vote I assume?

This is a case of where " You know better because your Westernized". Your also living in a country crying "foul". In England we try to say "if you don't like it then fuck off".. But we are a bit shy to say it out loud.

I'm just trying to see it from both perspectives here.

You need to do a LOT of research before you counter argue.

Google some of these terms proceeded by "Japan", read up on them (perhaps a book), spend some time here, and then chime in.
-Women's rights (spoiler: ranked 105)
-Racism
-Foreigners Rights
-Inovation
-Deflation
-Judicial System
-Family Law
-Parental Kidnapping
-No Dancing

Tons more but that should keep you busy for a while.

In short, Japan is the old boys' club redefined. The rest of the world is moving forward and at least trying to fix most of their faults. Japan just does more and more fucking retarded bullshit, furthering their status as "island nation" and by that, I don't mean surrounded by water... I mean head in the fucking clouds. Example: Japan's economy has deflated for 20 years, yet the police still use an old Occupational Forces law to shut down dance clubs that are operating past midnight... sometimes in droves. These are tax paying, job-creating businesses.

Xyga: I don't understand the foreigner card thing - is it only for foriegn Japanese residents? What if you're just a tourist and they stopped you, you wouldn't have anything to show?

Well I suppose in this case you are just required to show a tourist visa (?)

Yes, you need one of the two on your body at all times (by law). They are somewhat lenient if you explain to them the situation, but I was told to get mine out of my hotel when I was visiting once.

[Skykid]

Man, no-one ever told me I need to carry my passport around? I've only ever taken it out to get into hotels if I have a fierce night of drinking, since I don't have a resident ID card. They didn't even mention it in the local police office where I filed for address registration to get Visa extensions.

Seriously, nobody gives a flying fuck about anything here, to the point where I'll put the theory to the test. I've been here for almost 1.5 years now and I'm willing to bet no-one ever, ever stops me. To accentuate that point, there aren't exactly many foreigners in this city, maybe 200 settled in a population of 6 million, so we're not difficult to spot should someone want to random check us.

[Xyga]

Well the urban Chinese don't pay much attention to foreigners anyway (except when it comes to business and they turn to le happy Chinese merchant mode) since there so few on their territory.
Or they will pay attention to the clothes, haircut, etc, but not the actual individuals.
Funnily I found rural people to be much more curious about us, they ask questions (!)

Immigration stuff is easy (wait in line, agree to everything and pay the fee -> sesame).
Just never do anything wrong, or at least nothing the persons who are responsible for you or the authorities will ever be aware of.
And if you do and ever get caught, you'd better have your passport with a valid visa on you.
I've known personally and heard a few cases of stupid laowai who ended up scolded for several hours straight in a police office, then got expelled from the country with no real hope of coming back before a loooong time.
But that was in Beijing, where hundreds of thousands of stinking white trash expats are here to further pollute the atmosphere.

Maybe the Chinese aren't as 'racist' towards the gaijin/laowai as the Japanese can be.
Or maybe it depends on when, what's floating right now in the air (like having an aggressive conservative PM in office).

Aw, that was really OT, sorry.

[Skykid]

Well the urban Chinese don't pay much attention to foreigners anyway (except when it comes to business and they turn to le happy Chinese merchant mode) since there so few on their territory.
Or they will pay attention to the clothes, haircut, etc, but not the actual individuals.
Funnily I found rural people to be much more curious about us, they ask questions (!)

I'm a rare animal here, people can't get enough. At first the attention was overwhelming - even intimidating. Now I'm used to it I wouldn't want it any other way. It gets me places.

Immigration stuff is easy (wait in line, agree to everything and pay the fee -> sesame).

Fee?

And if you do and ever get caught, you'd better have your passport with a valid visa on you.
I've known personally and heard a few cases of stupid laowai who ended up scolded for several hours straight in a police office, then got expelled from the country with no real hope of coming back before a loooong time.
But that was in Beijing, where hundreds of thousands of stinking white trash expats are here to further pollute the atmosphere.

We don't have that problem here. It's difficult to explain: it's a big city constantly getting bigger, but life is laid back and slow paced, relatively. You've brought something to my attention I had no idea about, and I'm confident if you hadn't mentioned it I would never have had to worry. But as a precaution I'll check with friends and other laowai to see whether or not they carry papers and get some advice.

I perceive no racism because I'm constantly being showered with adoration, and have never been recipient of anything openly negative based on my race. All in all, I'd be lying if I didn't say it's fucking awesome.

[Xyga]

Fee?

Yes I had to pay a few hundred once to change my visa to new extended one.
Nothing big but as I've noticed most troublesome, legal, or business stuff end ups solved the moment money is exchanged.

I perceive no racism because I'm constantly being showered with adoration, and have never been recipient of anything openly negative based on my race. All in all, I'd be lying if I didn't say it's fucking awesome.

Same here, never experienced even a tiny bit of discrimination while I was staying in China. If anyone I met there ever felt something bad about the foreigner me (and I doubt anyone did), they never showed it.
All-in-all I always felt more relaxed while living in China compared to Europe, where social tension and aggressive feelings towards each-other are more openly, more directly expressed.

Now to be back on topic I can't talk about the condition of women in Japan, but in China it didn't seem too bad, although there's no easy benchmark for these things.
Again city and countryside mentalities play a big role there, some country folks are pretty old-fashioned on various topics from what I've experienced...

[Skykid]

Fee?

Yes I had to pay a few hundred once to change my visa to new extended one.

Ah yes. Extension is about £20 for a month after the visa expires. Can be done three times after the main Visa period is finished. No problem there, the dude in the local office knows me well enough now. I just give him a new photo and 200 RMB and go on my way.

All-in-all I always felt more relaxed while living in China compared to Europe, where social tension and aggressive feelings towards each-other are more openly, more directly expressed.

Like I said, nobody gives a fuck about anything, least not wasting time on the kind of ridiculous ego penis-fencing everyone seems to throw about in the west. Chinese women aren't completely free of the patriarchy, but they're very empowered and often have an upper hand in many scenarios - particularly marriage. Their husband being a cheating bastard is a given though, as seems to be a perfectly accepted occurrence in Asia.

[neorichieb1971]

So what if any justification does Japan give for its lack of progress on sexism? Do the women just accept it?

It seems to me the Japanese must have a culture profile that must be adhered to. Profit, Westernization and sexism must be treated with the same caveat rules of engagement that the Americans use to keep firearms. No matter how non nonsensical it must be stay in the rut, they choose to stay in the rut, or someone in power comes along with a blockade on proposed ways forward.

I suspect there is a difference of opinion between ages. With parents still stuck in a rut, kids just following the rut.

Ultimately politicians pretend to change everything, but never change anything. Its the same in all countries. I've never in my lifetime seen a politician that done anything amazing. Well Saddam Hussein gave the USA the finger, I thought that was pretty amazing. But as with most things like that, there is a penalty to pay, as Saddam himself found out when he stepped out of line. I figure any cultural change will cause a divide.. I suppose the argument in Japan is that if your not culturally in line, then "shame on you".

[Blackbird]

I always find stories like this baffling, because Japanese media often presents women in a very positive, empowering way. It's disconcerting that one element of the population seems entirely in favor of positive change, while another element is keeping everyone else down.