DARK SOULS 2

[guigui]

Smelter Demon isn't that hard. It is definitely overwhelming the first time you fight it though. If you're melee use a Gyrm Greatshield. If you're a cleric use magic barrier. If you're a sorceror use Flash Sweat. Roll in water before you fight it and use a Fire resistance ring.

The only really tough thing about it (and it is one of the harder fights) is killing it fast enough before the fire damage eventually gets too high without being greedy and getting spanked.

At least the Persuer is nice enough to drop in for coffee after the fight is over

Well, that persuer killed me more times than the Smelter did...

[CMoon]

There's one other strategy with Smelter, but you aren't gonna like it. Jack up your adp. On my build with 38 ADP I could roll through all his attacks and in general this was an easy fight. This was all melee and not much fire defense.

And yeah, pursuer might be harder (although once again, not with 38 adp.)

[guigui]

In my run, 38 ADP has been reached right after maximizing life bar. Essential when you play w/o shield.

[CMoon]

I can't believe I still haven't beaten the game...at dragon aeries with my second build (Dark, which gives you access to all other magics) and already getting bored of it. I wonder if DS2 is actually too long and it takes a LONG time to build up a character (hence the soul vessel.) Really want to mess around with a dex/faith build for lightning bow of want, but once again, note how everything becomes driven toward NG+. *sighs*

[guigui]

I can't believe I still haven't beaten the game...at dragon aeries with my second build (Dark, which gives you access to all other magics) and already getting bored of it. I wonder if DS2 is actually too long and it takes a LONG time to build up a character (hence the soul vessel.) Really want to mess around with a dex/faith build for lightning bow of want, but once again, note how everything becomes driven toward NG+. *sighs*

You should definitely use Soul Vessel. There are about 4 by playthrough, and you can create brand new character with each of them.
Also you'll get to play directly NG+ with all your stuff and such.

[CMoon]

OK, beat the game. Respecced to a dex/faith hybrid which seems really strong. Didn't hurt that I had a maxed out defender greatsword infused with lightning. Excited about messing around with poison weapons. I'm going back to what I said several pages ago about ADP. I didn't have it on the Hex build, but when I respecced, I went for ADP and ATN at equal amounts (30/30), and suddenly I have I frames again, yay!)

Just trying to finish up a few odds and ends right now (farming for dragon bones, still need to do the abyss or whatever it is called) before I move on to NG+. Why is Nashandra such a pushover?

[guigui]

Why is Nashandra such a pushover?

Didn't get to her yet, but maybe because she is a she ?
I also agree on the ADP. I have it at 38 (no ATN though) and find it impossible to play without now.
So you cleared the game with the Pursuer Greatsword ? I dropped it as soon as I got Malformed Skull from those monsters in Lost Sinner. Skull is beast.

[Volteccer_Jack]

I thought she was hard until I realized that OOPS you can easily bait her into using the laser over and over. At that point even constantly screwing up the dodge didn't matter because you have like a week to heal and move into bait position again before the attack finishes. Worst final boss.

[CMoon]

So you cleared the game with the Pursuer Greatsword ?

Defender Great Sword: http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/defender-greatsword

This is one of the best faith weapons in the game. Already does lightning damage, can be infused for more lightning, has an L2 Lightning buff like sunlight blade (frees a spell slot), and scales S with faith. Overall size and feel it is more like a claymore than some of the other huge-ass greatswords. Pretty fast and versatile.

[rapoon]

So you cleared the game with the Pursuer Greatsword ?

Defender Great Sword: http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/defender-greatsword

This is one of the best faith weapons in the game. Already does lightning damage, can be infused for more lightning, has an L2 Lightning buff like sunlight blade (frees a spell slot), and scales S with faith. Overall size and feel it is more like a claymore than some of the other huge-ass greatswords. Pretty fast and versatile.

^^ great sword. using it on my faith build as well.

how do you guys like the lances? I hated them at first but have grown to love em.

[guigui]

Never got to play lances in any game of the serie. Not big enough.
My last dialogue with Benhart of Jugo, next to a giant tree atop a castle overlooking the sea :

Man, I love this sword so much that I'll never give it to you
If you want it, you'll have to take it from my dead body.

[Press X to talk]

Hey buddy, we went through a lot together, accept this as an offer.

[Gives Bluemonn Greatsword, and whole armor sets]

Come on From, you cold ahve done better on the dialogues this time around

[CMoon]

Man, this game is driving me crazy. Playing it side by side with Dark Souls 1, and even if DS2 is still a good game, there are so many questionable design choices that it makes you pause and think about what makes good games work. Tempted to write up a game review for DS2, but in a nutshell:

1) Artificial difficulty
1a) Monster density is way too high. Impossible in many places to pull one enemy at a time. DS1 only has a couple 'rape rooms', where DS2 basically wants to rape you non-stop. Turns tense exploration or exhilarating boss runs into tedium.
1b) Bosses: There's nothing even close to Ornstein and Smough. Too many bosses have their difficulty inflated by just swarming you with small enemies, or giving the bosses the ability to one-shot you. Ganking is not the same as a good boss encounter.

2) Character movement and actions downgraded. I would use words like 'sluggish' and 'imprecise'. Lock on is worse (apparently due to the whole lighting idea that was scrapped.) Some people like parrying and backstabs being harder, and maybe that's good for PVP, but for PVE it takes away from the arcade element.

3) Changing the character stats undermines a lot of what made Dark Souls so flexible and fun. Splitting old stats (Endurance/Vitality) and adding new stats that had to be pumped to play DS2 like DS1 (ADP) was a horrible design choice. Guess I won't be able to flesh my character until I'm level 300 and NG++.

4) Linear (and uninspiring) world design. Demon's and Dark Souls felt like they took inspiration from Ico and Shadow of the Colossus in their world design and love of architecture. I don't get that from Dark Souls 2. Except for the DLC and a few other areas (Drangleic castle) the whole world feels really generic to me. There are no meaningful short cuts to discover/unlock (except in the DLC). Warping from the beginning is almost like an admission of guilt from the programmers. No way to access a huge amount of the gear until late game, eliminating creative routes and forcing you to upgrade weapons you may not even want to use. Hub world throwback for leveling is ruined by long load times.

Beyond this we move into the world of griping/whining. For instance, I think the game lacks memorable NPCs, the atmosphere and vibe isn't there, etc. etc. I can deal with those issues, but these first 4 are bad game design choices, and they make me wonder about the intentions of the programmers. The faults are glaring enough to convince me that DS2 isn't in the same league as the first two games, even if it is still good. Ultimately it feels like a patched up mess of a game that still turned out OK somehow.

tldr: CMoon is a whiny bitch who just needs to git gud.

[Volteccer_Jack]

I get the impression that the people making Dark Souls 2 were somehow less experienced. It feels like the rough first attempt, and Dark Souls feels like the refined sequel.

I actually like Adaptability, because a guy who pumps it plays pretty differently from a guy who neglects it (see also Endurance). Most other stats seem questionably designed to me. Partly this is because the way scaling works is insane. I also think it makes no sense at all to give Equip Load a dedicated stat while simultaneously making Equip Load way less important.

Bosses: There's nothing even close to Ornstein and Smough. Too many bosses have their difficulty inflated by just swarming you with small enemies, or giving the bosses the ability to one-shot you. Ganking is not the same as a good boss encounter.

Yesss. So many of the bosses have such easy movesets, and then they're given ridiculous damage output in order to fit the arbitrary difficulty quota. Almost every boss has some "gotcha" move with a tricky cue that insta-kills average characters, but ceases to be a significant threat as soon as the player becomes aware of it. The fact that Lost Sinner is my favorite boss makes me sad. Even Taurus Demon is a more exciting boss than a lot of the Dark Souls 2 cast IMO.

[KindGrind]

DS2 felt like a boss rush to me, even more so the second playthrough, now that you knew your way around. I finished the game rather quickly and dying very little overall. Was a fun experience, but too many bonfires made it less important to be übercareful at times.

Fact: I died way more beating DKC:Tropical Freeze.

Adaptability is very important to me. Stat scaling is important in DS2, but was even more important in DS. I feel like they nerfed it quite a bit.

Agree on world design: uninspired and very horizontal. The Wharf / Bastille connection is cheap, something that was not done in DS, where you felt the levels were on top of the other, connected a la Super Metroid / SOTN, which was a great thing.

[mastermx]

DS2 is its own game. I don't really see it as a sequel to DS in the true sense of the word.

[CMoon]

I've heard people say DS is like Zelda meets Lovecraft. In DS2 I feel less Zelda and more Gauntlet. Endless mazes of dumb enemies and poison only to get to a boss that spawns more mobs. Not feeling the love.

[Wooph]

I also dislike how sluggish character movement feels in Dark Souls 2. I was a little surprised how snappy the controls were when I booted up Dark Souls again. I do feel the changes made to backstabs were necessary for PvP though. For parrying, you just need to get used to how nearly every parrying tool has a startup before the parry is active. The exception to this is the Monastery Scimitar, which parries instantly and allows you to parry on reaction, even in PvP.

[Cagar]

I must be literally the only person on this planet who thinks that dark souls 2 is superior.

[CMoon]

I must be literally the only person on this planet who thinks that dark souls 2 is superior.

No, there are people that agree with you. I just think those people are wrong

Out of curiosity, how much time did you put into each game? I'm also curious if your focus is PVE or PVP since I think most of the changes to the game were really PVP focused and came at the cost to PVE.

[Zaarock]

I'm also curious if your focus is PVE or PVP since I think most of the changes to the game were really PVP focused and came at the cost to PVE.

Most people I've heard criticize the pvp seem to think the opposite actually, that PVP is dumbed down and slower (manual aiming is restricted, less cancels etc) while the mechanics work just fine for PVE. Though you have to manage your stamina more carefully in DkS2 which a lot of people seem to like.

I think the magic system is much superior to DkS and maybe weapon balance is better for both PVE and PVP. I like the level design the first DLC the best in the game so far, hoping the last two will keep it up.

Changing the character stats undermines a lot of what made Dark Souls so flexible and fun. Splitting old stats (Endurance/Vitality) and adding new stats that had to be pumped to play DS2 like DS1 (ADP) was a horrible design choice. Guess I won't be able to flesh my character until I'm level 300 and NG++

What do you mean by fleshing out exactly? Most stats(especially ADP) get much lower gains after 20, so unless you for some reason want to be high on all stats something like 300 shouldn't be necessary at all. For pvp I think the stats get sorta questionable after around 160 since pure physical builds don't really need any stats after that, so everyone starts being a spell user.

[Cagar]

your opinion is wrong

herp derp unga mungah

Out of curiosity, how much time did you put into each game? I'm also curious if your focus is PVE or PVP since I think most of the changes to the game were really PVP focused and came at the cost to PVE.

I put 80 hours to complete dark souls, and 50 hours to complete dark souls 2.
The time difference is mostly being used to the controls and all gimmicks and stuff; i think they're pretty much equal in length.

I played DkS 1 for around 200 hours after that 80 hours it took to clear, but I didn't find the game any satisfying after the first playthrough. Almost every area just feels 'annoying' and gimmicky; the places are too big (in size, not in complexity) and you're forced to ping-pong around the map to make progress. Artorias DLC was super, though.

For DkS 2 I'm now at 200 hours too, and it's still great fun.
My main focus is on PvE, with PvP as a nice side-dish that I try from time to time
(and I think that people taking dark souls PvP seriously should be laughed at )

There are still many reasons to why I find DkS2 more enjoyable as a whole, but it all can be shortened to "it's more carefree"

[CMoon]

Most people I've heard criticize the pvp seem to think the opposite actually, that PVP is dumbed down and slower (manual aiming is restricted, less cancels etc) while the mechanics work just fine for PVE. Though you have to manage your stamina more carefully in DkS2 which a lot of people seem to like.

See, this is funny to me because the PVE is basically just gauntlet runs with way too high of enemy density and an uninteresting world. I already said this above so I won't go on. Since I don't do the PVP thing, I thought maybe there was something there that made it better.

I think the magic system is much superior to DkS and maybe weapon balance is better for both PVE and PVP. I like the level design the first DLC the best in the game so far, hoping the last two will keep it up.

So, the changes in the balance system are herbs, spices and attunement adding additional casts + casting time. There's also more rings for magic users. This does flesh out magic users a bit, but it is interesting because magic is OP in Dark Souls but doesn't really feel that way in DS2. I think this might be because the popcorn enemies are now damage sponges and there are a lot more of them. I know some people are getting a lot of use out of the spices, but for most spells this weakens the cast, so I don't know how much spices adds to the magic users game play. I'm using a dex/sorcerer hybrid right now and the magic (at 50 int) is kinda underwhelming to be honest. Very different than DS where by Anor Londo you are one shotting the sentinels with soul spear.

What do you mean by fleshing out exactly? Most stats(especially ADP) get much lower gains after 20, so unless you for some reason want to be high on all stats something like 300 shouldn't be necessary at all. For pvp I think the stats get sorta questionable after around 160, since pure physical builds don't really need any stats after that, so everyone starts being a spell user.

Sure, it is worth explaining this. In Dark Souls, you can have a fun viable character to play even at relatively low levels. Although level 1 runs are a challenge, beating the game at level 35-60 is well within reason. Many of the classes are actually quite viable out of the box with maybe a few points put into stats needed to use certain equipment. Then you can just boost your damage scaling stat and support stats at your leisure. There are other options too, like Pyromancers with all their points in vitality, etc.

Stats in Dark Souls 2 start lower, so even though the caps on many of the stats are lower, you will need more levels to get them. Designers concession to this was to make getting levels cheaper, but what they didn't think/care about is that a low level character in Dark Souls 2 is severely gimped until you beef up some of those points. Level 1 chosen undead is about on par with a level 30+ DS2 character, and I don't get that design choice. I play games to have fun, not feeling like I am playing a gimped character.

I did look into the caps and you're right that if you take END/VIT from dark souls vs END/VIT/VIG/ADP from Dark Souls 2 and only consider their soft caps, DS2 requires 20 more points to hit those caps. It will take you about 40 more levels to get here though because DS2 characters start with about 20 less points (see this vs. this), but even when you hit the soft caps, the Dark Souls 2 character is weaker than the Dark Souls character (slower, less stamina, etc.)

[CMoon]

Almost every area just feels 'annoying' and gimmicky; the places are too big (in size, not in complexity) and you're forced to ping-pong around the map to make progress. Artorias DLC was super, though.

Yeah, I don't get this because IMO the first half has a lot of 'complexity' at least in the sense of the verticality of level design and the way the areas are linked allowing you to create routes based on the build you want to make. Just as an example, here's an old video about how absurdly overpowered you can get before even fighting the Taurus demon. Dark Souls 2 doesn't have this freedom and in a way the game doesn't really open up until New Game+. Surprised about your take on the DLC which I thought was good but I didn't think its design was in any way better than the rest of the game.

That said though, Dark Souls 2 doesn't have Lost Izalith, Crystal Caves and Tomb of Giants. I don't mind the latter, but yeah, I wish the second half of Dark Souls was better. Thing is, by that point I have a fully geared up character and can smash through those areas quickly.

There are still many reasons to why I find DkS2 more enjoyable as a whole, but it all can be shortened to "it's more carefree"

Actually I kinda wish you would say more because I find DKS2 more stressful and less fun. I don't like high density of enemies and I don't like the world design and I don't like having to get to NG+ before I can have the weapons/build I want. So I'd like to hear more.

[evil_ash_xero]

I gave up on Dark Souls 2, which made me very sad.

I don't have a PS4, but I'm hoping that BloodBorne can prove the theory that the reason Dark Souls 2 is missing that certain something, is because Miyazaki was not involved.
If BloodBorne doesn't do that, maybe it was all just lightning in a bottle. But I kind of think BloodBorne is going to have the "soul" that Dark Souls 2 is missing.

Fingers crossed.
And I will TOTALLY buy a PS4, if BloodBorne is of Dark Souls level, and is a long game like that as well. I don't care if I don't have anything else to play on it for the next couple of years.

[Marc]

I started a run through of one after clearing two, before realising I don't have the time to do it all again, but yeah, the first half of one is far superior. I do feel it levels out around the halfway mark though. Cursing players in the Depths and having the only means of a cure across the other side of the map is shitty design, I don't care what anyone says. And I did find the lack of a warp annoying., though I did find two far too giving in that respect and I can't think of a decent compromise just off the top of my head.

And I'm agreement that anyone taking PvP so seriously in either game needs their head examined. It's a hugely fun diversion sure, but if you're sinking hour after hour into it, there's got to be something out there more suited to your purposes surely?

[Weak Boson]

Picked up this again. I'd left it in NG+ at the bit with all those dreadlock lion dudes. But now I'm once again admiring Dranglaic Castle - I just need to put to rest that pesky Darklurker! Can't seem to do any decent damage against it, though it doesn't help that I'm mostly kitted out with dark weapons. I wish I'd got to it in my first playthrough but I ran out of human effigies (I missed the ring of binding I actually used them). I'm definitely having fun, though, it's nice to get some of the things I missed the first time around, and having additional black phatoms and items and stuff is cool.

I still think it's not a patch on the first game - and no patch can fix this! There's just nowhere near the same attention to detail in the world. I agree with the "gauntlet" characterization also. I suppose some people might like that, but since I enjoyed, to use a too-simple term, "the story" of the first game most of all I think I am justified in finding the sequel lacking. I say the first one is better designed because it was like everything pointed to something - if it was there, you felt like it was there for a reason, and if you didn't know what that was you could find something that might hint at it.

Playing through the Black Gulch got me thinking about this. There are a couple of centipede-like enemies that burst from the wall, just like the ones in the Demon's Ruins in the original. Now, in the Demon's Ruins these guys were right at home. You see the shell of one clinging to a cliff, they're obviously tunneling about all over the place, and later you meet the Centipede Demon, and can draw yet more conclusions about where they came from and how they fit in to the Demon's Ruins community. In the Black Gulch they just swipe at you: you kill a couple and never look back.

I also remember the moment I first encountered a crystal golem in the basin. It seemed completely incongruous, but whatever. Then some time later you fight through Seath's archives and see all the crystal abusers and eventually make it to threshold of the cave itself. Then you see they relate to other locations, characters and enemies - and the fact that they have spread out in the world is not the only hint at Seath's far reach.

Stuff like this is spread much thinner in DS2. And yeah, DS1 is also happy to through a dozen taurus demon's at you in defiance of sense - and that's fine to an extent. In fact I have at times thought DS1 could do with having fewer sparsely populated areas. But now having played a game in which loads of random nasties are thrown at you just to make it harder I'm thinking the restraint they showed in that regard might have paid off more than I realized.

Still I do quite fancy the DLC - I've heard it and "Lovecraftian" used in the same sentence so I expect to enjoy the general vibe. And actually I do have some faith that they'll be able to cobble together a few well designed areas - there are moments in the main game that testify to this and focusing in on an isolated set of areas ought to help.

[brokenhalo]

bump!

i've been playing the ps4 release of dark souls 2: scholar of the first sin and i'm really impressed with how much they changed the game. as a ds2 veteran, i'm constantly being thrown curveballs and getting my butt handed to me. it's glorious.

playing this after bloodborne just kind of highlights how lackluster bloodborne is in a lot of ways.

[Bananamatic]

honestly i'm butthurt about SOTFS

first DLC gets shitty euro pricing so I would pay almost as much for the DLC as for the full game which was supposed to be the "full experience" with no DLC
now you get this upgrade version that costs extra again (though because I didn't buy the DLC it should cost as much as buying the DLC separately now)

worst thing, it splits the PC playerbase in half or rather 66% of the players are on SOTFS already so if you want to keep playing online you better pay extra else enjoy your dead game
also more people in coop is overkill and makes it only less fun

not to mention the 60 fps issues were there since day 1 and they haven't even bothered to fix the weapon degradation rate yet they want to keep charging extra

tl;dr fuck from

[ryu]

If anyone's getting this on PS3 who already played the vanilla game on that console, please let me know if the save files from the vanilla game are available for loading in SOTFS.

[Obscura]

I bought the original version of Dark Souls 2 yesterday (my PC doesn't meet the requiremetns for SotFS), and I have to say, so far, I'm rather surprised by the people who think it's worse than Dark Souls 1.

The controls actually feel better to me than they did in DS1. In DS1, I constantly get issues where a button press comes out delayed by several seconds, or the order of two button presses gets screwed up; I don't have any of these kinds of issues in DS2. The new "jump" on L3 also feels better than the old "sprint, then quickly release and re-tap the roll button" jump did.

I personally think that the "mob aggro" is an improvement over the "draw everything out one at a time" mentality of DS1. It feels less dumb and exploitative, and it's a lot less tedious.

Weaker/harder backstabs improve PvE drastically, not just PvP. Melee combat feels more about trying to space yourself correctly to evade enemy attacks most effectively while still being at a range that you can counter easily; dancing for the right range is a lot more fun that running in circles for the easy and invincible backstab.

Not sure how I feel about limited enemy respawns. No grinding, sure, but that was always optional. Areas that are empty because you've run through them a few times are a bit of a downer.

From what I've read, it looks like the "60 fps issues" are actually how the game is intended to play, and it's the PS3/X360 versions that are screwed up. I personally like the fast weapon degradation -- giving the player an incentive to have "backups" is nice, and degradation did nothing in DS1 but add busywork, so it's nice to see it both have a role while having less busy work involved.

So far, I've only seen two bosses -- The Last Giant and The Pursuer -- but they were a bit disappointing compared to DS1. Neither is as good a fight as the first two bosses I fought in DS 1 (Asylum Demon and Taurus Demon), which isn't really a very high barrier.

Not understanding the complaints about feeling "too weak" at the start of the game at all. It doesn't really feel any different from DS1 in that regard; with Swordsman start class, early game enemies go down in 2-3 hits generally.