Is Islam bad?

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mastermx
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by mastermx »

@ed oscuro

Thank you. That was some interesting info, I should read up on Galileo. I find it really interesting so I'll be sure to check out the link.
austere wrote:I'm sure as you'd also agree, some of the poorest as well. Once you have wealth, its difficult to lose it unless you lack wit. But if someone is burdened with 5 prayers a day compared to another person who isn't, who is more likely to become more wealthy? All things being equal, expending large amounts of time and energy on an activity unlikely (unless they become a rich preacher) to convey economic benefits will tend towards poverty, all things being equal.
Dude it takes like 5mins. Unless you really extend it. Besides very few muslims observe their prayers. Half of them are lying.
austere wrote:People are unlikely to come forward with it, but its very common in Gulf countries. In the Levant it's a convenient way of cheating and always leads to a divorce anyway. I was exaggerating a little bit but you will find a lot of the "Jihadis" operate this way and the females that hang around them eventually develop some sort of slavedom-fetish. No idea how that works yet.
That's the thing though, it's seen as cheating by the women because it technically is. It almost always ends in divorce. It can be seen as simple unfaithfulness justified by religion. And no, it is not "very common".
austere wrote:Not just wahhabis, also Iran. The fact that extremists on both sides of the spectrum do the same thing should have you wonder, no? Most Islam scholars in the west will say "that is a sura that is only meant for war". Well, the Qu'ran itself is divided in two sections, the Mecca suras and the Medina suras. The latter override the prior ones, as most Wahabbis will correctly tell you. That means their head chopping antics are actually pretty much justified according to Islam proper. The scholars are wrong. Ask one why the Quran doesn't list the Ayehs chronologically. They won't have an answer for you, but I can tell you why. ;)
Yeah extremists are extremists no doubt. Just because two extremists agree on something, doesn't define other people within the sects. And no the quran does not mention stoning, neither does it mention punishment for apostasy. Most progressives would cite the quranic quote "Let there be no compulsion in religion" as the deciding factor for most mainstream Islam.
austere wrote:That's the thing about Islam, if you interpret it (i.e. ignore anything that contradicts basic human decency) the right way, all is good, the moment you change its interpretations you'll be eating hearts in Homs, Syria and blowing up ancient monuments while cutting heads of the people guarding them. Is that true of Judaism/Christianity? Not so clear.
Cannablism is one of the greatest sins in the islamic religion, and the quran never mentions chopping off heads as a form of punishment in anyway. It seems to me you are speaking out of assumption rather than actual knowledge of the book. I worry that you have mistaken Hadith for Quran, which are two entirely different things. Hadith is a can of worms I don't wish to open. As it's mostly chinese whispers. And different sects treat them differently, some of them downright say that they should be ignored.
austere wrote:I can tell you that most of the funding of Al Qaeda et al. ("Free" "Syrian" "Army", Jabhet Al Nusrah etc.) has been coming from "moderate" mosques around the world
Ok now you're just pulling my leg :shock: You do realize how big of an accusation this is right? Alex Jones needs to hear of this!
austere wrote:most Muslims do not take part in terrorism, but recent events have truly opened my eyes towards the percentage of them that actually approve of terrorism. It is not insignificant.
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austere
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by austere »

Ed Oscuro,

It's quite interesting that not much has changed today, in the Sciences. Replace the pope/church with the grant bodies and university chancellors...

mastermx,

I'm afraid with a conclusion like that I will not be dignifying your post with a reply. Good day.
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Lord Satori
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Lord Satori »

A conclusion like what? He makes 5 separate replies to different points in your post.
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austere
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by austere »

Lord Satori wrote:A conclusion like what? He makes 5 separate replies to different points in your post.
Can you really call 4 short strings of sentences all of which are easily debunked with a good Google search and finishing up with two consecutive ad hominem attacks, "5 seperate replies"? If so, you need to raise your standards a little bit. It's usually a waste of time to argue with true believers of any religion, Islam is no exception. Most Muslims don't even read Arabic and are completely unfamiliar with what their religion actually says. I can read, write and speak Arabic by the way. It's no surprise mastermx was reduced to flinging ad hominem attacks. I don't have time for another shit-flinging contest I'm afraid, if you or someone else have any points to raise I'll reply to those, or alternatively, mastermx can man up and apologise and we can continue where we left off.
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Lord Satori
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Lord Satori »

I suppose not, but my point was only that simply saying "a conclusion like that" about a post of that nature isn't very specific. I'm not familiar with Islam and am thus not eligible for such a debate.
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ED-057
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by ED-057 »

Religion is at best a collection of ideas and customs that can create common ground among neighbors. But when the foundation of a religion is a large, disorganized, ambiguous, and self-contradictory text, it tends to fail at even this purpose. Then it may become a tool for manipulation, and an excuse to not think for yourself.

Religion is not a root cause of bad behavior, but also not a solution to it, or a root cause of good behavior.
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austere
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by austere »

Couldn't have put it better myself, well done.
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mastermx
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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I speak arabic it is my mother tongue, I had at one point made it a point to strengthen my ancient arabic too, reading preIslamic poetry. So there goes that point out of the window. I have travelled and visited many of the gulf countries including those around it. And yes I did resort to ad hominem attacks at the end there. But can you really blame me? You have no idea what you are talking about.

True believer? Pfft if you'd read what I'd written earlier, you'd know that I'm a deist. That I don't care about religion. My background however and my time spent debating with Muslims have left me quite knowledgeable in this subject matter. But seeing someone spread misinformation, almost that I actually questioned whether I was being trolled, that I couldn't handle.

There are points of contention I have with Islam. And they are moral and ethical things that they I actually do and preach. Not the medievil fantasy you've painted.

Look dude I wish I could tell you, that Muslims will roll into your town, take all your bitches, ransack your stuff and then ride into the sunset on their chariots. But they just ain't that cool. They're just regular people with an unexplainable love for hummus and pistachios.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Aleksei »

I'd like to contribute an opinion that will cover the OP question.

The common theme that I've observed is that when an individual studies and interprets the holy books for that religion themselves, and is clever enough to find the symbolic meaning of the word written, they gain an understanding of what it is to be human in this world. This discovery cannot be found by preachers who will dictate the word to you literally, therefore, a strong will is needed to find ones own "truth" from the texts because everyones interpretation will be different depending on their education, environment and values. Luckily, all three factors can be changed, environment being the most difficult because of monetary situations. In conclusion, where ever there is organization of a single mindset/interpretation, the is a divide amongst humanity and this can be seen in all of the major religions around the world. Islam is not bad, no worse than any of the other religions that treat holy books as history books. Another uniting theme is astrology in holy books, no not the fake fortune telling, but the true astrology that relates the human body and mind to the skies. I believe knowing about both astronomy and astrology (constellations) is important in order to understand how ancient people interpreted life. In Islam, Sufism, a branch of Islam, strives to use "a science through which one can know how to travel into the presence of the Divine, purify one's inner self from filth, and beautify it with a variety of praiseworthy traits". How could you call that bad?
ED-057 wrote:Religion is at best a collection of ideas and customs that can create common ground among neighbors. But when the foundation of a religion is a large, disorganized, ambiguous, and self-contradictory text, it tends to fail at even this purpose. Then it may become a tool for manipulation, and an excuse to not think for yourself.

Religion is not a root cause of bad behavior, but also not a solution to it, or a root cause of good behavior.
Great post ED, but I'd like to address your last sentence by saying that religion can cause all three things you listed, I have witnessed it first hand, and this happened from being raised through by the literal, misinterpreted teachings of holy scripture. Parents have a very big role in this of course.
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Astraea FGA Mk. I
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Astraea FGA Mk. I »

I will attempt to solve the dilemma.

On circumcision:

It is better to be uncircumcised. This is because if you are uncircumcised you have the option to be circumcised, but if you are circumcised you cannot become uncircumcised. Choice is better than no choice, basic logic.

On Islam:

Is Islam bad? Yes.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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Khan wrote: tbh from most of the chicks ive spoke to about this matter most prefer circumcised.
What the chick wants for my cock is the absolute least of my concerns. I wouldn't give up God given sexual pleasure because a girl thought in her infinite misinformed wisdom that it was somehow better for her.

You wouldn't cut your nuts off if she said your balls were tickling her thighs.
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mastermx
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by mastermx »

Skykid wrote:You wouldn't cut your nuts off if she said your balls were tickling her thighs.
Haha this is very true. The whole circumcision thing is actually quite f'ed up when you look at it from a rational perspective. It's technically mutilation.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Ruldra »

Shmups forum essentially saved me from an unnecessary circumcision some time ago. I'm eternally grateful to you guys.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Jonathan Ingram »

Aleksei wrote:In Islam, Sufism, a branch of Islam, strives to use "a science through which one can know how to travel into the presence of the Divine, purify one's inner self from filth, and beautify it with a variety of praiseworthy traits". How could you call that bad?
What you've described implies attaining metaphysical ends("travel into the presence of the Divine") with materialistic means(science) - an impossible task considering that in the process you'll be forgoing any and every empirical fact on the ground in favor of the undefinable and esoteric notions of eternal "truths" extracted from whatever your holy scriptures of choice are. I wouldn't call anyone following that methodology bad, but a mooncalf? - Definitely.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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Ruldra wrote:Shmups forum essentially saved me from an unnecessary circumcision some time ago. I'm eternally grateful to you guys.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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I love my foreskin and you will grow to love it too.
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Lord Satori
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Lord Satori »

Why are we talking about dicks again?

Only on Shmups forum will you have a thread about religion thats quickly derailed into a thread about dicks.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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He doth protest too much.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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Lord Satori wrote:Why are we talking about dicks again?

Only on Shmups forum will you have a thread about religion thats quickly derailed into a thread about dicks.
Religion ain't shit but a bunch of dicks.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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BIL wrote:Religion ain't shit but a bunch of dicks.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Stormwatch »

Lord Satori wrote:Why are we talking about dicks again?
Because there are religions that say you're better off with less dick. Duh.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Lord Satori »

BIL wrote:
Lord Satori wrote:Why are we talking about dicks again?

Only on Shmups forum will you have a thread about religion thats quickly derailed into a thread about dicks.
Religion ain't shit but a bunch of dicks.
This is the greatest one-liner in the history of the universe.
BryanM wrote:You're trapped in a haunted house. There's a ghost. It wants to eat your friends and have sex with your cat. When forced to decide between the lives of your friends and the chastity of your kitty, you choose the cat.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Moniker »

Lord Satori wrote:
BIL wrote:
Lord Satori wrote:Why are we talking about dicks again?

Only on Shmups forum will you have a thread about religion thats quickly derailed into a thread about dicks.
Religion ain't shit but a bunch of dicks.
This is the greatest one-liner in the history of the universe.
Honestly, Skykid, yeah let's agree that circumcision is bad. But it's not one of the primary problems in the world today. In your next election, are you going to insist that your chosen party adopt pro-foreskin as part of its platform? Didn't think so. There was some really useful conversation going on here.
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Skykid
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Skykid »

Lord Satori wrote:
BIL wrote:
Lord Satori wrote:Why are we talking about dicks again?

Only on Shmups forum will you have a thread about religion thats quickly derailed into a thread about dicks.
Religion ain't shit but a bunch of dicks.
This is the greatest one-liner in the history of the universe.
The chances of you understanding what it means or where it came from are likely zero, however.
Moniker wrote: Honestly, Skykid, yeah let's agree that circumcision is bad. But it's not one of the primary problems in the world today. In your next election, are you going to insist that your chosen party adopt pro-foreskin as part of its platform? Didn't think so. There was some really useful conversation going on here.
Primary problem no, but a problem yes. Female circumcision is even graver than male and also performed under pretense of religious requirements in many African societies. It wasn't long ago that doctors in the UK were unearthed offering to perform the service on girls of five years old.

The world is an idiotic place. Males are mutilated at the expense of hundreds of thousands of nerve endings, females at the expense of all sexual feeling to be a receptacle for sperm with no demonic lusts.

I haven't got any particular issue with what you do to your kid's cock, but spreading awareness to help bury another archaic religious fallacy is only a positive thing.

Sorry though, I didn't mean to cock up your thread.
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Lord Satori
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Lord Satori »

Skykid wrote:
Lord Satori wrote:
BIL wrote:
Religion ain't shit but a bunch of dicks.
This is the greatest one-liner in the history of the universe.
The chances of you understanding what it means or where it came from are likely zero, however.
Oh fuck off. The amount of random insults I get on this forum are staggering, and quite frankly I'm getting sick of it.

Also, Moniker, you quoted me, yet are talking to Skykid. Was that a misquote or is there something I'm missing?


Anyway, now that I'm less gravely misinformed about foreskins and circumcision, I'm inclined to agree that as a religious tradition it's horrible. My impression was that it was only done in modern times because there was a sort of "I was circumcised, so my boy will be, too" logic going on, or something like that. Imo, for something like this, why it's being done matters more than the fact that it's being done at all.

Also, I didn't know female circumcision was a thing. Wtf?
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by Moniker »

Lord Satori wrote: Also, Moniker, you quoted me, yet are talking to Skykid. Was that a misquote or is there something I'm missing?
Guess so. Sorry bout that.
Also, I didn't know female circumcision was a thing. Wtf?
Spent some time in Kenya and yeah, all the dudes there (tribal dudes anyway, didn't spend much time in Nairobi) think it's the bee's knees. One guy, a devout Christian convert, btw, not only supported female circumcision, but also gave his reason for having multiple wives as: If I only have one wife, what if she runs away? Then I have no wife. Unless the missionaries were Mormon, I guess his conversion wasn't really complete. :| Really decent, warmhearted guy, otherwise (not kidding).

There's also the widespread belief that fucking a virgin cures you of HIV.

----

Anyway, back on point, so if your everyday Sunni thinks ISIS are nutjobs, why is the Iraqi army crumbling despite vastly outnumbering and outgunning them? Something doesn't add up. Some in the West are calling for redrawing the obviously arbitrary post-WWI mideast map along ethnic/religious lines, because to the outside observer it really looks like they're incapable of getting along (lacking a hardcore dictator, anyway).
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by jonny5 »

Lord Satori wrote:
Oh fuck off. The amount of random insults I get on this forum are staggering, and quite frankly I'm getting sick of it.
Lurk more, post less. Problem solved.

Take note of how this doesn't seem to happen to everybody that posts here and re-assess how you convey yourself.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I'm not a fan.
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Re: Is Islam bad?

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Re: Is Islam bad?

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Moniker wrote:Some in the West are calling for redrawing the obviously arbitrary post-WWI mideast map along ethnic/religious lines, because to the outside observer it really looks like they're incapable of getting along (lacking a hardcore dictator, anyway).
Dividing the country will exarcebate the situation. It's never worked before, you just end up with two warring neighbours. Also, it will create further poverty in regions (mainly sunni) which don't have much oil reserves. Make no mistake, oil is a huge proponent of this conflict.

The solution is actually pretty simple. Remove religion from politics. If they can erode religious identity in the political spectrum, there will be no reason to fight. This of course needs to be done in a respectful way, otherwise more butthurt shall ensue.

EDIT: Even then, you have the problem of terrorists being funded by outsiders. I take back what I said, there is no simple solution. Just remove religious identity, unite the people, kick terrorist butt and hope for the best.
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