Is Islam bad?

Moniker · Post by **Moniker** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:24 am

Don't get me wrong. Judaism and Christianity have fucked-up histories, but at this point, they're tempered by secular sentiments. Islam, on the other hand, has a history of enlightened thinking; but these days there is little to recommend it as a useful ethos. Political correctness aside, is it possible that this particular major world religion simply exerts a bad force on humanity?

Personally, I'm an atheist, and dislike the thought of any sort of organized religion. But major percentages of Muslims are taking to a ridiculous code. I'm personally grateful that I don't have to endure the kind of shit that's going on in Northern Iraq right now. I get enough shit from my Christian family for being an atheist. If I lived in Saudi Arabia, I'd likely be executed for apostasy.

This is a regular American's point of view. Correct me where necessary.

Aguraki · Post by **Aguraki** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:51 am

this thread is a terrible idea and wont end well.

Im not sure what sense u mean by bad,it seems u mean as pure evil.
what do u think people thought during the crusades about these nice christians?

Im not into that stuff but the answer seems simple:
islam is equally bad or equally good as the other religions.

this thread would be so much interesting if it was :
Is religion bad?

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:06 am

Aguraki wrote:this thread would be so much interesting if it was :
Is religion bad?

Still too contentious and no facts to ultimately decide one way or another.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:51 am

Fewer Christians and Jews these days are taking radical stances because their populations' lives have, by and large, substantially improved over the last few centuries; to a large extent the same cannot be said for Muslims worldwide. When you're living in poverty (or something close to it) and feel (often with at least some justification) that you're being oppressed without any viable "secular" way out of it, you abandon hope for this life and put all your stock in the next, which translates to a willingness to do some crazy and/or terrible things in its name. If living conditions for most Muslims improved overnight to the same extent they have for the other monotheists, you'd see al-Qaeda-style terrorism vanish at the drop of a hat, because popular support for it would utterly vanish once people felt they had something else, something immediate, to live for - moreover, if you think that the leaders of such organizations are truly driven to commit such acts by their strong religious convictions, you haven't been paying the least bit of attention.

Religion in and of itself is not always the root cause of otherwise unjustifiable actions, but it is an infinitely exploitable trigger.

If you've never read it, look up Marjane Satrapi's graphhic novel Persepolis - it's a biographical account of growing up during and after the Iranian revolution, and offers an all-too-infrequently-highlighted bit of perspective from a secular/moderate Muslim viewpoint (albeit Persian and not Arab by ethnicity).

Bananamatic · Post by **Bananamatic** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:58 am

antron · Post by **antron** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:15 am

Dust reed thred. Bot...

God plans on torturing some of his creations for eturnity.

So... What's bad again?

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:23 am

Moniker wrote:Judaism and Christianity have fucked-up histories, but at this point, they're tempered by secular sentiments.

Not secular enough. As long as Jews keep mutilating their sons' genitals, I'll keep calling them fanatical primitives.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:34 am

Ed Oscuro wrote:
Aguraki wrote:this thread would be so much interesting if it was :
Is religion bad?
Still too contentious and no facts to ultimately decide one way or another.

Strongly disagree.

Lord Satori · Post by **Lord Satori** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:54 am

Stormwatch wrote:
Moniker wrote:Judaism and Christianity have fucked-up histories, but at this point, they're tempered by secular sentiments.
Not secular enough. As long as Jews keep mutilating their sons' genitals, I'll keep calling them fanatical primitives.

Oh for fucks sake. It's not exclusive to judaism, and it also has many medical benefits as well. Referring to it as "mutilation" is just stupid and pretentious.

Anyway, religion itself isn't always bad, but since it's at the root of all closed minded bigotry in the world, it's hard not to think so.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:35 am

Lord Satori wrote:
Stormwatch wrote:
Moniker wrote:Judaism and Christianity have fucked-up histories, but at this point, they're tempered by secular sentiments.
Not secular enough. As long as Jews keep mutilating their sons' genitals, I'll keep calling them fanatical primitives.
Oh for fucks sake. It's not exclusive to judaism, and it also has many medical benefits as well. Referring to it as "mutilation" is just stupid and pretentious.

It is mutilation, you just don't think it's a pretty word.

Circumcision reduces sexual pleasure by 50% + owing to loss of sensitivity in the uncovered glans and hardening of its skin: fact. I'd rather keep good hygiene and have my little bro in a natural state than sacrifice sexual pleasure. We have a good time, he and I.

The most amusing counter argument on a pro-circumcision website I heard was that adult circumcision is beneficial because the loss of sensitivity allows the man to "last longer" during intercourse.

Great benefit there.

drauch · Post by **drauch** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:45 am

I wish I had my foreskin. That shit always looks fucking dank in porno, leaving me bewildered and confused to why my penis is different. My parents had me mutilated because they knew I wouldn't clean myself. I looked at my toilet and sink earlier and let out a sigh, because yeah, they were right, and my penis would probably be infected now.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:56 am

Lord Satori wrote:Oh for fucks sake. It's not exclusive to judaism, and it also has many medical benefits as well.

I didn't say they have a monopoly on stupidity. And if you mean those studies that show it protects against HIV... isn't it funny how that magical protection disappears when you look at real life numbers? Really, in many African countries, the HIV rate is actually higher among cut men. Pseudo-science at its finest!

Lord Satori wrote:Referring to it as "mutilation" is just stupid and pretentious.

Mutilation, noun: an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body. Now:

Is circumcision an injury? It's the amputation of a body part, so that's quite obvious.

Does circumcision degrade the appearance of the human body? That may be subjective... after all, didn't they have the hots for women with crippled deformed feet in old China? But I must also mention that, by the classical (Greco-Roman) standards of beauty, a circumcised member is utterly abominable. Indeed, in the Roman Empire, it was so widely, intensely detested that Hadrian made it a capital crime.

Does circumcision degrade the function of the human body? Oh, fuckin' believe me, it does. Since the foreskin is extremely rich in specialized tactile nerve ends, circumcision makes sex far less pleasurable — it was always intended to do so, a weapon in the war against "lust" and "self-abuse". Not surprisingly, it makes you far more likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction (impotence). With the loss of the "gliding action", the increased attrition may cause dyspareunia (pain and discomfort during intercourse). Also, being an extremely painful event, it may cause life-long trauma; it's been found to be strongly related to alexithymia (a psychiatric condition defined by poor ability to identify and describe one's own emotions, as well as a lack of imagination, intuition, and empathy).

And even if — IF — none of that was true, it would still be an irreversible body modification, without a pressing medical need, done without the patient's consent. Meaning it still would be absolutely unethical, no matter what!

Lord Satori · Post by **Lord Satori** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:17 am

Skykid wrote:We have a good time, he and I.

Umm... I'm not sure what to make of that.

Anyway, my complaint is that people who refer to circumcision as mutilation have the tendency to take this small insignificant issue and blow it way out of proportion. (inb4 obvious dick size joke)

Now I wasn't aware of all of these facts, and I suppose I'm glad I've learned them, but in the end, there are far more important things to feel that strongly about. Like religion, which this thread is supposed to be about.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:23 am

Lord Satori wrote:small insignificant issue

Lord Satori · Post by **Lord Satori** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:30 am

Sounds like you care a lot about dicks. I suppose it's a good thing to care for your own kind.

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:31 am

drauch wrote:I wish I had my foreskin. That shit always looks fucking dank in porno, leaving me bewildered and confused to why my penis is different.

It was years before I saw a non-cut dick in porn. Years. I didn't even know what a foreskin was.
Like, back when Winamp jumped from 3 to 5, I never got the whole "no one wants a Winamp 4 skin" joke in the README.

---

also, I'm pretty sure BulletMagnet's pretty spot on with this:

Religion in and of itself is not always the root cause of otherwise unjustifiable actions, but it is an infinitely exploitable trigger.

Moniker · Post by **Moniker** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:02 am

Yeah, this thread was a bad idea. Ah well.

President_Obama · Post by **President_Obama** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:04 am

I can't believe you actually created this fucking thread.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:14 am

I don't think there's anything wrong with the thread as a discussion. "Bad" is a bit of a perfunctory way of asking a complex question - perhaps is Islam a particularly dangerous faith would be more appropriate.

I'd love to answer with more depth but I'm afraid if I say anything too detailed in the negative I may end up on the receiving end of real-life violence. Inadvertently, that makes my position on the subject quite clear.

Moniker · Post by **Moniker** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:16 am

Eh, the idea was to have a discussion something like Penn Jillette's take on the religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5thChfm8vLs

*shrug*

Xyga · Post by **Xyga** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:41 am

It is 'Islamabad' (not 'Islam is bad', dummies).

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:48 am

If we're going to bring Penn Jillette to this discussion, I must mention this.

President_Obama · Post by **President_Obama** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:51 am

Fun facts (except for the bit I mixed up) - Mormons swear an "oath of vengeance" against American citizens because of Joseph Smith's murder. They claim to have ceased this activity despite decades of contradictory testimony from ex-Mormons who've sacrificed everything in their lives to escape. The word Terrorist was first coined to describe a Mormon. The CIA and FBI "actively recruit" Mormons and America has had one high profile magic underwearing Mormon bishop presidential candidate.

I hold the belief that Yaweh is a vile creation of man, and since so much death, destruction and so much irrational bullshit are carried out in Yaweh/god's name that he/it is the true evil. I'm an atheist veering on the side of Gnosticism/Luciferianism/Satanism. Currently the only thing preventing Christians from burning someone like me at the stake are laws which guarantee my freedom.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:21 am

Oh come now, we all know you're a secret Muslim by now.

In any event, I should have guessed that the circumcision thing would once again rear its ugly, uh, head.

President_Obama · Post by **President_Obama** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:34 am

I'm actually a clone of Akhenaten

The sun is the one true god.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:44 am

President_Obama wrote:The word Terrorist was first coined to describe a Mormon.

No, it comes from the French Revolution's "Reign of Terror". It first entered the English language in Edmund Burke’s Letters on a Regicide Peace, decades before Mormonism even existed. (sauce)

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Is Islam bad?

BulletMagnet already wrote it in a much better way than I could. But anyway, asking if Islam is bad, as if trying to shift the blame to the religion itself and ignoring all other facts, that's something I'd expect to see in disinformation media like CNN.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:59 pm

I wonder when, or if, the death and black metal communities are going to give up beating up on Christianity and start going after Islam. Where's the disemboweled Mohammed album art and the songs about riding in to Mecca and slaughtering the believers? Talking shit about Jesus is kind of old hat at this point, especially with all the crazy shit Islamic fundies have been up to, killing people over cartoons and shit. I guess I'll have to stick with Ayat for when I want to hear some anti-Islam jams. All hail Allah the swine!

endoKarb · Post by **endoKarb** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:04 pm

Narrow-mindedness: the thread.

mastermx · Post by **mastermx** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:06 pm

Should change thread title to "is humanity bad?"