Super Mario 3D World

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replayme
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by replayme »

Moniker wrote:I suppose I'll probably pick up a WiiU once a couple other major franchises get represented. Having a killer Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Smash Bros. game would be too much to pass up. Hopefully Z:ALBW signals recognition of the direction the next 3D Zelda needs to go.

3D World looks amazing, but I can wait a bit.

replayme wrote:What the world (including Nintendo) needs right now is a portable Snes with downloadable games.
It's called the PSP. :P
I'm going to wait for Nintendo to go third party before picking up their franchises. Or buy a Wii U for Xmas 2016 (after the PS4 and XBone).

Regarding the PSP: I always thought that Snes/SFC emulation was of a poor standard. Is this train of thought not correct?
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by Moniker »

replayme wrote: Regarding the PSP: I always thought that Snes/SFC emulation was of a poor standard. Is this train of thought not correct?
SNES9xTYL 0.4.2 actually has pretty decent compatibility & fidelity. Don't mess with later versions or Snes9x Euphoria - they're rubbish. You can't play absolutely everything, but it's a pretty great SNES portable solution. Not to mention the PSP has truly fantastic emulation for everything 16-bit and south, as well as NEO-GEO & CPS1&2.


As for 3rd party Nintendo.. yeah, wouldn't hold my breath. They'd have to be in some serious dire freaking straits for that one.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Trying all SNES emulators on the PSP, I found that a majority of my favorite games wouldn't work without frameskip, slowdown or other issues.

A SNES emulator for 3DS made by Nintendo could definitely do better. Sort of doubt it will ever happen though.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Moniker wrote: As for 3rd party Nintendo.. yeah, wouldn't hold my breath. They'd have to be in some serious dire freaking straits for that one.
It's so beyond the realms of possibility it feels like parody just thinking about it.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Yeah, but then one wonders how many more copies Nintendo would have sold if they had gone third party. GTA, Cod, Fifa et al do gangbusters because they target consoles wiyh huge userbases. And Mario et al don't because they're only available on machines that no-one wants. Doesn't seem like good business sense...

I see Nintendo more like the mom and pop store in the age of the supermarket. Eventually, they'll realise that they can't compete. And for me, it's just a waiting game now. Like a vulture circling overhead...

* obviously I am referring to home consoles and not handhelds, as doing so otherwise would just be insane.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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For as long as there is room left for a cut-price, Wii U is not doomed. Backwards compatibility will probably exit through the window and maybe leaving just U in the name would be smart. Neither would attract third party devs (that Nintendo need above all things), but there should be some other way to do that.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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replayme wrote:GTA, Cod, Fifa et al do gangbusters because they target consoles wiyh huge userbases. And Mario et al don't because they're only available on machines that no-one wants.
You do know the Wii sold 100 million units right?
* obviously I am referring to home consoles and not handhelds, as doing so otherwise would just be insane.
Unfortunately you can't discount handhelds because they also qualify as consoles hosting Nintendo games. So in addition to 100 million Wii consoles no-one wants, there are sales of about sixty bazillion Game Boys, GBA's and DS's that no-one wants.

Like moniker said, I wouldn't hold my breath for a 3rd party Nintendo unless you get off on asphyxiation.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Skykid wrote:
replayme wrote:GTA, Cod, Fifa et al do gangbusters because they target consoles wiyh huge userbases. And Mario et al don't because they're only available on machines that no-one wants.
You do know the Wii sold 100 million units right?
* obviously I am referring to home consoles and not handhelds, as doing so otherwise would just be insane.
Unfortunately you can't discount handhelds because they also qualify as consoles hosting Nintendo games. So in addition to 100 million Wii consoles no-one wants, there are sales of about sixty bazillion Game Boys, GBA's and DS's that no-one wants.

Like moniker said, I wouldn't hold my breath for a 3rd party Nintendo unless you get off on asphyxiation.
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The Wii was priced appropriately, and was always sold in stores as a disposable (short-lived) gimmick. As a serious gaming device, it's goals were short-term and sales dropping off a cliff was indicative of this. Like Guitar Hero... Or even that skateboard accessory for Tony Hawk.

The Wii U already loses money on the hardware front. Underperforming software will add to this revenue shortfall. And aside from a massive hardware revision which drops the tablet, there is no further price-drop that Nintendo can realistically propose for the Wii U.

You refer to the handheld division, but that's almost a different subject entirely. It makes money for Nintendo, and isn't the massive loss leader that the Wii U is proving to be (in terms of R&D, time, money, effort, software R&D etc). Also, the industry is different to how it was back in the Wii/PS2 era. We've got tablets and mobile phone devices. And try as Nintendo fans might, even the Vita is doing better (and trends suggest it will do even better as the PS4 becomes more established).

Your argument for Wii U and the 3DS to be placed under the same umbrella is akin to saying that Fifa is the same as Syndicate (even though both were developed/funded by EA). One's a success and gets yearly updates, whilst the other was a sales disaster. Why would any (profit motivated) company support an under-performing loss leader?

I guess your reasoning also explains why we're getting 10 sequels for the underperforming F-Zero franchise on Wii U. Not.

You think Nintendo can make another "next gen" home console after the Wii U given their track record for supporting third parties, the way the industry is going with even more expensive software development costs, and now a new trend showing Nintendo's first party titles as not being sales blockbusters or being unable to move premium priced hardware? Yeah, maybe if they want to crash and burn, although the Wii U going down in flames is enough of a spectacle as it is.

I said this before: as good as Nintendo's software is, its sales success will be hampered by the achilles heel that is Nintendo console hardware. But even I didn't think the situation would have been as bad as to what occurred when a AAA budget Mario title only achieved a 5-10% penetration rate.

Another company that is also doing gangbusters is Apple. But at least they make successful products and have an incredibly healthy ecosystem to support this. You refer to Nintendo's healthy bank balance, but I see very little evidence for the company continuing this state of affairs when it comes to its home console front. Every console post Snes has seen Nintendo on the backfoot, and the sales fluke of the Wii should have made Nintendo take a moment and reflect. Instead however, they've opted to make even bigger mistakes, and given the risks of the industry today, it's now come back to bite them.

Given its present console strategy, and where they refuse to court and money hat third party software efforts, I don't think Nintendo are cut out for the industry the way its shaping out to be. This might have worked in the Snes era (as it did), but not now. Even MS realises this, hence why they've made tremendous effort to get third parties on board.

You talk about the handhelds, but third party support is indicative of how healthy it is. Where is the third party support for the Wii U? It even nose-dived in the latter days of the Wii when the PS360 consoles became more affordable.

The Wii U is dead. I'm not saying this because I hate the console, but the comparative gangbuster success of the PS4 and XBone, together with the indifference that the market has shown towards the new Mario (along with Wii U) proves this. Sure, we'll get a few flickers of "hope" to suggest that the Wii U is still a force to be reckoned with (Mario Kart), but I wouldn't be surprised if the console does less than 10 million sales throughout its lifetime. Sales have flatlined as it is.

*I'd like to proven wrong on this. And God... I've kind of gone into an anti-Wii U rant again. Aaaaaaaargggggggghhhhhhh!

:)
Last edited by replayme on Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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One hell of a horse in the room is that developers must want to work with given system to make good games for it, also, publishers must listen to their suggestions as to what to develop for, because who else the latter have to trust?

Has anybody seen developers choose Wii U?

Wasn't GameCube actually sold at a profit from the year one? Developers didn't seem to dislike it either, as the history of Rogue Squadron II indicates.

Another elephant in the room - first party Nintendo games won't fool anybody into thinking they cost as much to develop as whatever gets most spotlight on all the other platforms.
Anybody seen any genuine show-off on Wii U? See the old pal Rogue Squadron II. Them fucking explosions and not a whiff of midichlorians.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Well, if I never hear the phrase "gangbusters" again it will be too soon!

Honestly, I didn't get much value out of the Wii bar Sin and Punishment 2 and the Galaxies, nor am I particularly fond of the whole casual market Nintendo generated in the last decade, but I'll be damned if it doesn't seem like your imagination is being influenced by your distaste for the company. Allow me to set things straight for you absolute finality, so I need not have to ever do it again.
replayme wrote: Apples and oranges... Both fruit. But not the same.
Let's be clear: You referenced Nintendo games, "Mario et al", as being on machines that no-one wants. You totally aren't then allowed to take handhelds out of the equation when the majority of the very titles you're referencing exist on those highly successful platforms. It's not apples and oranges, it's the gaming industry and all its various bells and whistles. Handheld gaming is just as lucrative and viable as home console gaming - you should know, you just bought a Vita.

However, it's even more befuddling that you seem to think Nintendo's entered a world of failure post Super Nintendo. It's like history has been rewritten and no-one told me.

Allow me to give you a more favourable post SNES timeline lesson based on fact, rather than one based on a passionate dislike for the poor old Wii U:

The Nintendo 64 lasted for seven years and sold 33 million units - that's 23 million more than the Sega Saturn. If there was a second place in a generation that included several consoles (PSX, 3DO, CDi, Jaguar) then the N64 had it. Meanwhile the GBA set the handheld world on fire shortly after the 64's departure and ended up shifting 80 million units - nearly as many as Sony's runaway PlayStation. Additionally, we all know not investing in CD technology saved the company a lot of expense and allowed them to trim more profit from the sales they did have.

The Gamecube was a failure, but certainly not for hardware reasons, which you cite several times as the underpinning factor. In-fact, the hardware was pretty damn impressive, outperforming both Dreamcast and PS2 in several respects. Just compare Resi 4's as an example.
At 22 million sales it sold twice as many as the Dreamcast, but came far too late to challenge the firmly established PS2, so there was really no opportunity to get in on the act. In spite of poor sales figures, thankfully every machine was sold at a profit, rather than the manufacturing loss the competitors were absorbing. The console's failure was a shame if you ask me, the Gamecube could have done with a second chance.

And then...

The Wii was inferior hardware in reference to the competition, no argument there. Nintendo took the Gamecube hardware they couldn't sell, reworked it into a gimmicky thing, and quietly shoved it back under everyone's noses. 100 million sales later with a console sold at profit from day one and the bank cashier is grinning ear to ear. As if that wasn't enough, the Nintendo DS surpasses the PS2 in sales to become the most successful console of all time with 154 million units sold.

Around this time they were named Japan's most successful company for several years running. That's not more successful than Sony - that's more successful than everyone.

The DS's successor, the 3DS and XL variants are closing on 50 million sales already, with an agreeable lifespan remaining.

Which brings us to the Wii U: a misstep with a silly interface, no third-party support and completely ill timing, sold at a loss (I assume?)
The ship seems to have sailed on the 'casual' Wii market Nintendo established, and they should have known better than to expect lightning to keep on striking with only mild to not very interesting innovation. Any criticism levelled at the current contender is due, to be honest, and I'm not arguing.

So, Wii U aside, from the N64 until now they've sold 439 million units of hardware across six platforms, all at profit from launch.
There's absolutely no chance that Nintendo is going to go third party, probably ever, if pride plays a part. They have enough capital to soak a failure or two, and the console isn't quite dead yet, despite your assumption. The fact that Japan has a soft spot for them means that there's more chance of working some new magic in the future and relighting their revenue than there is of them dissolving and making games for Microsoft and Sony.

And we haven't even started talking about the last ten years of cash-money made from Pokemon. Seriously.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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What does all that profit matter if you have no allies by the end of it? Seems rather hollow if you ask me.

We both know that third party support started to decline once Nintendo failed to keep up with industry trends - the loss of Square being the main reason as to why the N64 finished second place after sticking with its cartridge strategy. The GC "failed" because of Nintendo's previous reputation for being difficult with third parties (and the loss of consumer confidence) also. This, in the face of an new entrant in the form of Microsoft. The Wii was a fluke, in that it was an impulse purchase in comparison to the "ridiculously priced" PS360. Heck, even I'll buy "garbage" if it's cheap enough - hence why I bought Anarchy Reigns for my XB360 yesterday for £4.

Regarding the Wii U: it's too expensive for what it is, and for what it represents. Gaming tastes are also changing, and "Mario et al" (as proven by Japan) don't necessarily place it in the top tier of established franchises. At £300, it was too expensive shen it launched (especially when word got out that it wasn't that much more powerful than either the PS3 or 360). At £250, it's still too expensive. So what will it take for sales to pick up longterm? A price cut? Is this achievable, given that Nintendo actually lose money per unit? A killer game? Is this sustainable long term, and from whom (1st or 3rd parties - who themselves will now either stay on PS360 or jump ship to PS4/XBone)?

If Nintendo ever does come out with a PS4 / XBone specced machine, they'll still fail. Why? Lack of consumer confidence - and a resolve strengthened by a track record implying poor third party support. Even Iwata "admitted" this when he stated that Nintendo aren't good at competing. Which to me implies that they are the equivalent of a mom and pop store that are being muscled out by supermarkets.

Even with an abysmal launch lineup, the sales for the new Sony/MS machines prove how much faith the public has in them. Regardless of how "borked" and "expensive" they are. Because of both organisations' track records.

And Sega's track record is why the Dreamcast failed. Not how nice the machine's spec was, or how good the first party lineup was. It was their track record. People had simply lost faith and were holding out for the "unproven" PS2. It is this scenario exactly that has occurred to Nintendo, in that no-one has bought the Wii U because they were holding out for the PS4 and XBone.

Regarding my Vita: I bought it for £130. To me, that is an acceptable price to pay for a handheld. Not £300 - which was its (and the Wii U's) original pricepoint. I would pay £300 for a home console, but not for a handheld. And this is one of the reasons why I distinguish handhelds and home consoles differently. Regardless of whether they play host to the same franchises. My criteria for each changes.

Regarding Japan: that country hasn't been a gaming superpower for nearly a decade. For them, it's all about mobile or handheld gaming. If Japan has a soft-spot for Nintendo, it'll be for their handhelds. Not their consoles.

As for the Wii U being not quite dead, I believe you are correct. But I believe the DC is also not quite dead - as people still make games for it. As a mainstream concern however, and unless Nintendo plan to make a drastic pricedrop so as to practically give the machine away, the Wii U is finished.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by BulletMagnet »

For whatever it's worth, apparently 3D World's low sales weren't entirely unexpected.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Re: Super Mario 3D World

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Knack sold more copies than 3D World. According to Eurogamer, 3D World charted at Number 14.

Make of that what you will, as I'm kind of bored of repeating myself.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by Drum »

That's in the UK? Haha, holy shit.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by replayme »

And some people still think the Wii U isn't dead, and still has a chance. Man, I want to know what magic mushrooms they've been taking, as they clearly aren't working. Mario ain't high no more :)
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by BulletMagnet »

For any of you who said that Captain Toad ought to have his own game, well, guess what?
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by professor ganson »

I might get that Toad game. So far I've been super impressed by the Wii U library-- most of all Super Mario 3D World but there really hasn't been anything disappointing for me. The new Mario Kart game is popular in the household, so I'm happy I picked that up. Really nice to look at.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by EllertMichael »

BulletMagnet wrote:For any of you who said that Captain Toad ought to have his own game, well, guess what?

Damnit. That's awesome, but I was really hoping they would take those same gameplay and mechanics and use them to make a new Adventures of Lolo game.

Wishful thinking, I know :cry:
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by Lord Satori »

Yeah, I saw that and it looks pretty cool.
EllertMichael wrote:Wishful thinking, I know :cry:
lol, I know all about that. Every time I see Nintendo at E3 I have this vain hope that a Mother series remake will be announced.
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Re: Super Mario 3D World

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

At least brand followers don't need to be ashamed of the graphics in Mario games anymore. When was the previous time you really felt this way?
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