Hey, You guys ever see a CPS1 board that looks like this?

[Tyranix95]

Hey, You guys ever see a CPS1 board that looks like this?

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Varth Operation Thunderstorm CAPCOM CPS1 JAMMA ARCADE Collector quality
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291164249738?ss ... 1423.l2649

[Zets13]

You mean the PCB design? Then yes. I believe that is also the style of CPS1 B-board that Street Fighter II: The World Warrior uses.

[Crafty+Mech]

Looks like a standard CPS-1 board stack with the later model "short" A board.

[Tyranix95]

You guys think the build is Original Capcom, or a Conversion?

[Tyranix95]

Here are a couple of Original Capcom JPN boards.




http://richy13-arcade4life.blogspot.com ... h-pcb.html



http://garakuta.homelinux.org/~nosuke/d ... =8&d=0&n=0

And, Here is an Original CAPCOM US board.



http://arcadecollecting.xmission.com/pcbpics/p1514.html

[Zets13]

Running the code ""90629B-3" (which is printed on the B-board in that auction) gives a lot of results referring to The King of Dragons. Based on that I would think that the game is converted from a TKoD PCB.

[Crafty+Mech]

You guys think the build is Original Capcom, or a Conversion?

On closer inspection, that is a good question.

The Japanese versions have a suicide battery, but the US version did not, so that would explain the lack of a battery.

The Dead Battery Society website lists Varth as having a B-4 B board, but most of the photos online seem to show a B-2 and the C board doesn't have the black foam cover.

The one Varth conversion I've heard of was done by dbinstallman over on KLOV, using a Final Fight.

[Tyranix95]

Good points, both you guys:

Japan VARTH boards came with a 92641C-1 "C" board.
These "C" boards have a B-21 PPU chip and 2032 Coin Cell Battery (to power the bit of ram inside the custom graphics chip while the game is off).
The ram holds the decryption keys for the encrypted Program Roms, so the game can start up.
Also, the 92641C-1 "C" boards do not have the Extra Button support like the 90631C-5 KOD/KOR/CC "C" boards.


And the US/ETC VARTH boards came with a 88622-C-5 "C" board.
These "C" boards have a B-04 PPU graphics chip, and no 2032 Coin Cell Battery support.
So, no ram in the custom graphics chip, no start up keys, and no encrypted roms.

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And both a 90629B-3 "B" board and a 90631C-5 "C" board come stock with a Original KOD build.

[Tyranix95]

What do you guys think of the eprom stickers on the board?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The stickers look faked and some of the numbers don't match up like VAU36 inserted in the 30 spot. The A1 pal is also missing its code stamp. However there could be a battery under the circular black pad and for sure Capcom USA made a few conversions in house that wound up a little wonky. I'd say 80% chance it's a home conversion, 20% Capcom USA official butcher job.

[Tyranix95]

Good points:


On the eprom sticks, CAPCOM printed the GAME ID Code on the first line, and the SOCKET # on the second line.

And, they ID the program rom region by adding an extra character to the GAME ID Code: J for JAPAN, U for USA, A for ASIA, E for ETC (or Euro).

When Capcom printed the USA and Euro/ETC rom stickers the printed them on silver, not white foil stickers.



But, when Capcom printed the JPN and the ASIA Foil Stickers, then printed them on white foil stickers.

Like on this NEMO board here.



And this MEGA MAN board here.




CAPCOM did not mix and match US and JPN rom sets (and labels) due to licensing issues. They did not print the GAME ID and the ROM # on the foil sticker. And they did not print that info on the same line on the sticker.

Capcom also silk screened their a part number, on the little PAL chip, in the upper left hand corner.

You can kinda see that here, in this pic.

[Tyranix95]

... some of the numbers don't match up like VAU36 inserted in the 30 spot. ....

Why, because the VA rom set that uses Program roms #36, #37, #42, and $43 is for a JAPAN rom set--not a US rom set.

A VAU rom set works with a B-04 "C" board--not a B-21 "C" board.

And a VAJ rom set works with a B-21, "C" board--not a B-04 "C" board. And VAJ rom set requires start-up keys for the encrypted P-roms (unless it's the decryted rom set, then no keys are required).

So, since VAU p-roms (B-04 PPU chip) are not 100% compatible with a B-21 PPU chip, the only way to get a VAU rom set to work with a B-21 chip is to alter the P-rom code to get it to work with the B-21.

And if the alteration was done by Capcom, then it's more likely that the p-roms are encrypted, because that would be the standard for a JPN VARTH Build. But, if not, then it's more likely P-roms are not-encrypted, and have been modified, because that would be the standard for a US/ETC build.

The reason why a KOD/KOR/CC "C" board is an unlikey "C" board for a VAJ build, is because a standard VAJ build would also require a hard plastic shell, and the large KOD/KOR/CC "C" baord will not fit inside the shell. It's just to big. So Cap would have opted for the smaller "C" board.

[Crafty+Mech]

Interesting stuff about the labels, I'd never really noticed that before between regions.

If I read your notes correctly, this board is a franken mash-up of two regions, with modified code.

An interesting specimen, but leaning towards a home conversion? Seems like a lot of trouble to go to for Varth, which is not that $ usually, but the again is also not nearly as common as boards like KOD, or Final Fight.

[Tyranix95]

Yeah, The board is way confused.

1. The CPS1 board set is the correct BOM (Build Order Materials/Parts List) for a US KOD.

2. The Rom layout on the board is correct for a "home brew" project.

3. The rom labels are correct for a "home brew" VARTH JPN roms. And,

4. The game code is correct for a "modified" JPN rom set. Modified in the sense that someone took the dbs revive code for the Varth JPN P-roms, which are B-21 compatible, and "modified" it to the US version (most likely in the French way).

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Yeah, an original, working KOD board is not that common any more.

So, not a good sack board any more.

He would probably get more for the sac board (original KOD board) than the VARTH conversion board.

[Tyranix95]

Hey, with all the CPS1 & CPS2 conversions going around these days,

Where do all the mask roms go?

I mean, nobody passes the OG roms along with the Converted board, so, where are they?

[Crafty+Mech]

Once in awhile on eBay I see SFII CE/Hyper rom sets for sale, and wonder hmmm I think I know what happened there!

[Zets13]

A far fetched possibility, but any chance that it could be a prototype board? Like, one used in developing the US version from the JP version? That could explain the KoD board being used (didn't want to use a Varth board since they were newer and more viable than an older KoD board)? It could also explain why official CAPCOM labels were used and why they are even printed labels. No idea why anyone making such an odd home conversion would go through the trouble of using official labels with what seems to be computer printing on them.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Those aren't necessarily official stickers. Some people buy stickers that shape and print out the Capcom logo on them to make their conversions look official. You can't really tell in pictures but if you have the board in your hand you can lift up a corner and see if there is reflective material on the bottom. If there is then the stickers are official. The blue ink will look a little bit different too on fakes. On the official stickers it doesn't look like ink from a home computer. I think there is a decent chance that is a Capcom USA hackjob. If it is then you could call it a prototype but it would be glorifying it. We've heard from x-employees who have said they would get bored sometimes and piece together boardsets from spare parts.

If it's running a live battery then I don't see how it would be a home conversion and that is usually what is under the circular pad.

[Tyranix95]

It's Capcom's custom to hand write labels for dev boards, early print run boards, custom orders, and short "gap" runs (when they run out of machine printed labels on the line).

The tech just grabs a blank label sheet and writes the game code, region, and socket number on the stickers. The CPS2 line is the best example of this. Look an Progear and DIMAHOO (USA vers). Both have small print runs. And, both have hand written labels on the eproms in the event Factory Printed labels were not used.

Also, for what it is worth, a while back, one of my buddies bought a few sheets of Blank OEM CAPCOM FOIL eprom stickers, form a Mexican Capcom liquidator. I saw his sheets. These foils are legit. He bought them to add that "official" look to his converted CPS2 board. And, imho, it came out very nice. So, these are not a Capocm exclusive item anymore.

... If it's running a live battery then I don't see how it would be a home conversion and that is usually what is under the circular pad.

VARTH USA p-roms require a B-04 PPU chip on the "C" board in order to work.

VARTH JPN p-roms require either a BAttery, B-21 PPU chip on the "C" board, or a Battery-Free B-21 PPU chip in order to work.

If you're going to run VAU (B-04) p-roms with B-21 PPU chip, then the p-roms need to be "modified" to work with the different B-21 "C" board. Otherwise, your graphics will be messed up, just like AREA 88.

But, if your not going to run VAU (B-04) p-roms with a B-21 chip, and you want to change VAJ (B-21) p-roms into VAU (B-21) p-roms, then you still need to edit the VAJ (B-21) p-roms.

If you don't know what I'm talking about: Perhaps this French Site will help you understand p-rom editing a bit.

http://retrogamebay.free.fr/?cps-1-conv ... -hack.html

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It's Capcom's custom to hand write labels for dev boards, early print run boards, custom orders, and short "gap" runs (when they run out of machine printed labels on the line).

Capcom USA and Mexico didn't always adhere to these rules/customs. I know it would be easier to keep track of the stuff in your head and notes if they did but they didn't. They just wanted to make money. In fact no company has ever cared as much about sticker labels as collectors and mame people.

The tech just grabs a blank label sheet and writes the game code, region, and socket number on the stickers. The CPS2 line is the best example of this. Look an Progear and DIMAHOO (USA vers). Both have small print runs. And, both have hand written labels on the eproms in the event Factory Printed labels were not used.

Also, for what it is worth, a while back, one of my buddies bought a few sheets of Blank OEM CAPCOM FOIL eprom stickers, form a Mexican Capcom liquidator. I saw his sheets. These foils are legit. He bought them to add that "official" look to his converted CPS2 board. And, imho, it came out very nice. So, these are not a Capocm exclusive item anymore.

I know about those, I know the seller. But just because they hand wrote some in those cases doesn't mean they never stamped them.

... If it's running a live battery then I don't see how it would be a home conversion and that is usually what is under the circular pad.

VARTH USA p-roms require a B-04 PPU chip on the "C" board in order to work.

But you can hack the program roms up to use alternate C boards. Also, CPS-B-01 = CPS-B-21, and we've seen CPS-B-04 being a scratched out CPS-B-01 with 04 stamped over it.

VARTH JPN p-roms require either a BAttery, B-21 PPU chip on the "C" board, or a Battery-Free B-21 PPU chip.

If you're going to run a VAU (B-04) p-roms with B-21 PPU chip, then the p-roms need to be "modified" to work with the different B-21 "C" board. Otherwise, your graphics will be messed up, just like AREA 88.

But, if your not going to run VAU (B-04) p-roms with a B-21 chip, and you want to make VAJ (B-21) p-roms VAU (B-21) p-roms into VAU p-roms, then you still need to edit the VAJ (B-21) p-roms.

If you don't know what I'm talking about: Perhaps this French Site will help you understand p-rom editing a bit.

http://retrogamebay.free.fr/?cps-1-conv ... -hack.html

What I'm saying is Capcom USA could have done this type of hacking on them. But the C board is masked so I don't know what chip it has anyway.

[Tyranix95]

A B-21 PPU chip comes stock, of the production line, on that "KOD C" board.

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But, here is another thing thing: IF CAPCOM USA was writing the labels, then they would use VAU for the rom code, and not VAJ. U being USA.

[Tyranix95]

Dose anybody think the the type of eproms used for graphics roms are odd--for a US rom set?

[jepjepjep]

Yep, looks odd to me. The only CPS1 game that I've seen without mask roms for graphics is Mega Man.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

They used eproms whenever they ran out of mask roms. The final Street Fighter Champion and Final Fights and all the resale games all used them for graphics. They didn't care about using the same exact parts for every copy of a game. They used a million eproms on a 3rd board on some versions of CPS2 games too like Capcom Sports Club when they ran out of mask roms for it.

[jepjepjep]

They used eproms for all CPS1 games in Japan, but in US, they all have mask roms save for MM1. CPS2 is different, they used eproms in some of those, but CPS1 is very consistent. I've never seen or heard of any US version boards that didn't use mask roms except MM1 which was a much later 1995 release (in the CPS2 era). The B-board was also different for the SF2CE type games: in Japan they used "EP-ROM Type" (91634B), but in US they used "MASK ROM TYPE" (91635B). The MM1 US release even though they used eproms still used the 91635B board, they just used a different type of eprom that matches the mask rom pinout. The Japanese Final Fights were on a different B-board, the 88622B and were all eproms. The US final fights were on 89624B boards and all had mask roms.

US never got any resale versions, only Japan, and all of the resale versions use the 91634B board.

That board looks odd. Maybe it's a one-off from the factory, but it's unusual.

[Tyranix95]

Good points, jep.

Also, When CAPCOM published a JAPAN Region game, on a 29B "B" baord, they used all eproms, and put it on a 29B-2 "B" board.

Just like the SF2:WW board below.



But, when Capcom published a NON-JAPAN Region game, on a 29B "B" board, they used all Mask Roms graphics roms, and put it on a 29B-3 "B" board.

Just like he SF2:WW board below.



The board in the listing is a -3, non-JPN "B" board, so it should have mask roms on it--not all eproms, with JPN labels on it.

And the eproms with "JPN labels" should have JPN region game code in it--not US region game code.

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During CAPCOM's entire production history of the CPS1 line, they never experienced a shortage of A, B, and C boards. In fact, it was the other way around , they had surplus parts the entire time. Which helped them develop new lines like the Grey CPS 1.5 DASH boards and the CPS Power System Changer. So, clearly, Capcom had the materials available to build the board correct.

[Tyranix95]

That's the wrong CPS1 box.

On the Japanese CPS1 Box in the picture, the Game Name is written, in Japanese, on the Small white rectangular label. And the label is dated. The Game Name, and Date, on the CPS1 box reads:

STREET FIGHTER
1991

The only STREET FIGHTER game CAPCOM Published in 1991 was WORLD WARRIOR.

[Tyranix95]

Also, FWIIW, somebody crossed out the SF2:WW label with a sharpie and wrote Hammerin' Harry on the CPS1 box, right below it.

大工の源さん

[Crafty+Mech]

So the Varth sold for $110 + shipping, did anyone here win the auction?

[geosnow]

Hi,

I am still puzzled. Is this an original game or not.



Thank you