NES Recommendations (very specific)

[evil_ash_xero]

Finished up Shadow of the Ninja. Noticed some differences between it and Kage. On the ship, the regular soldiers take one hit in SotN, and in Kage they take 2. In stage 2 there are some differences with the 3 Blutos before the boss. They drop health in SotN, and in Kage they do not. In Kage the bag next to them has a full heath item, and in SotN there is just some kind of power up. Also, some of the ninjas that jump out of the sewer in stage 2 seem to take less hits to kill in SotN.

I started playing SotN more, so that's about as far as I noticed with the differences. Kind of interesting, though they are small. I guess it could make the game seem a bit easier, but I prefer it due to making the game a little faster. I get tired of chopping away all the time at all the enemies.

I beat the game, and it's solid. Good, but not very good. I was expecting a little more from the company that brought us Shatterhand, Wild Guns, and Pocky and Rocky. But it's a nice game. I'll buy it...whenever I find it. Has some nice tracks.

I would have been stuck on that last boss, if not for YouTube. He's easy as pie, if you know how to fight him. But I got slaughtered when I first fought him.

[BIL]

Interesting - I'm used to difficulty reductions being on the FC side of things. The slightly tougher enemies do make keeping max weapon power all but mandatory in Kage, if you want to keep a decent pace. Awesome feeling hacking down everything at high speed, but take more than a couple bumps and the pace bogs right down until you can recover.

I found the last boss a bit disappointing, overly pattern-based. I pretty much stand in the same spot the whole fight. It's a really cool pattern, of course, but I prefer a bit more volatility (as seen with Solbrain/Shatterhand's much more reflex-testing last boss).

Have you played Dragon Fighter? It's the first game in what I consider Natsume's unofficial FC sidescrolling action trilogy, followed by Kage and Solbrain. The games got progressively more sophisticated overall, with DF being almost pure hack/slash by comparison - no bad thing when I'm not in the mood for the latter two's trickier designs. It has that same unmistakably solid handling and fine presentation, and a neat Super Meter mechanic that encourages a nice groove of whapping down smallfry with the sword, then blowing away tougher enemies with the Dragon transformation. Usual brilliant Natsume FC/SFC-era soundtrack.

[evil_ash_xero]

I have played Dragon Fighter. I haven't really been able to get into it. It's a little more basic, than I usually like. And the graphics aren't really doing it for me.
The Gummi Bears at the beginning are really pissing me off with their snowball antics. Who knew snowballs could be so deadly?
I'll keep fiddling with it, but it may just not be "my thing". I'm not really into more basic sidescrollers like Kung Fu or Vigilante. I know this isn't quite like that, but it reminds me a bit of it, with the short time I've spent with it. Does it open up more as it goes on? I'm not good at it, so I haven't seen much.

Now one game I want to get into, but it's beating me into the ground, is Holy Diver. I like Irem, and I like Dio, so it seems like win-win . But man....
I always come back to this game every few months, but then it kicks my ass. I dunno....maybe I'll find my groove.
I'm still thrown off at how much bigger you are than the dudes in the hoods at the beginning. Are you a giant, or are they midgets?

[BIL]

The gummi bears (I thought they were trolls) are actually werewolves - they look pretty badass in the manual, but unfortunately lime green isn't a very werewolfy colour! Stage design is pretty flat for most of 1-3 but 4's platforming is almost late Kage-like, and 5 is really intense with its laser turrets and swarming fliers (Dragon mode becomes more necessity than luxury there). But yeah, for the most part it's a relatively simple game, though not quite Spartan/Vigilante-simple.

Holy Diver is, despite some disappointing flaws that have no place in a work of its calibre (input glitches and severe bullet flicker) an immense game. It's like an actualisation of the mythical sidescrolling hell people reminisce about Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden being. It's genuinely hard as hell and only gets tougher with each stage. ^__^

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm going to try and tame that beast. We shall see.

[BIL]

THATS THE SPIRIT (・｀ω´・)

Be warned though! Where Irem clearly held back arcade difficulty until Metal Storm's second loop, HD only has one loop and AC brutality kicks in around stage 4. Each stage is roughly twice as long as the previous, too. Truly a TRIP TO HELL.

HD's actually surprisingly forgiving in some regards though. Max HP/MP restores always appear in the same spots, and you can respawn them infinitely by leaving and returning to an area (no time limit, either). So when learning the game, it's possible to set up camp and break down stages a little. It's also much easier when you know where you can afford to just nuke the screen with MP. Making it from one restore oasis to another is rough, though.

Mr. Padavona also gets buffed up massively over the game's course, so it's not like you'll be totally SOL by the end. No buffs can save you from pits unfortunately. ;-;

[BIL]

Ugh. Misinformation!

There is an interesting time attack element added to the game's hybrid of RT door bothering and Shinobi hostage saving. Only the POW in each stage must be rescued, the civvies are optional and will actually die if you're going too slowly (cartoonishly, of course - sexy lady one minute, crumbling skeleton the next).

Rubbish! That's what I get for FUCKN WIKIPEDIA. Hostages don't expire. Their positions are shuffled randomly from game to game, mission critical POW included, so what was a hostage one round might be a crumbling skeleton the next, and you can never write off a nasty corner of the stage lest the POW be there. Not sure if there are a limited number of patterns or something more complex - either way this shakes things up nicely.

I also like how the number of prisoners saved totals up across the game, resetting upon a Game Over, giving a satisfying distinction to one credit play. This is truly an arcade-standard Rolling Thunder/Shinobi-alike, combining the discipline of the former (no bumps allowed, no bombs, limited ammo) with the flexibility of the latter (super-reponsive air control) and serving up varied, hard as nails level designs. Easily as good a hardcore action sidescroller from Capcom as Top Secret and 2010SF.

You should give it a shot if you haven't ash, it's cheap on FC and if you can forgive the main dude's lack of trousers (easily done, distraction = SWIFT DEATH) it looks pretty nice too!

[Ed Oscuro]

Huh, when I played the game I had the same impression as Wiki when I played it years ago. I'll have to check out the versionz!

[BIL]

As if being ass-naked behind enemy lines isn't bad enough, our stalwart NINGEN HEIKI must also contend with the slanderous lies of internet terrorist cartel HG101:

"you need to save all of the hostages (hidden inside the doors) before you can beat a level, making the going a bit more tedious than it needs to be."

LOL HG101 Perhaps I should resurrect my short-lived GameFAQs career?

THE ANIMAL CRACKHOUSE Little Nemo ST

But some consolation is found in the site's ringing, time-tested endorsement:

"insanely difficult... too difficult for its own good."

And indeed, this is one of my favourite FC originals ever, up there with Metal Storm. Super sharp and super tough - could've easily worked in a cab. Unlike MS, it's also quite affordable! Score!

[BIL]

Owch! Wanged by the regional difficulty nerf bat once again with DOUBLE DRAGON III THE ROSETTA STONE (FC). Turns out it's a smidgen easier than the NES version. In the latter you have to fight a couple more enemies to proceed in some areas, and a few have more HP while the player has a bit less. In practice it's not very noticeable, though. By the point I'd aced the JP one I did the same to US no sweat. The JP one gives you a single continue after reaching Italy too, can't tell if that's in the NES one because I'd already bought the former and IDGAF anyway. Castlevania Bloodlines vs Vampire Killer situation AFAIK.

Regarding the game itself, this is easily the best the series ever was on FC. Scratch that, damning with faint praise. This is a satisfying and tough beltscroller with the classic murderous Technos crowd AI in fine form. DD1's fighting is simply too primitive these days, getting by on atmosphere and its platformer deviations if anything. DD2's an improvement with much more gratifying and impactful combat, but it's undermined by a certain move being the perfect option 99.99% of the time. DD3 not only has a balanced moveset for the Lee brothers but also its two new characters. Chin's body-smashing four hit combo is the surest kill and can't be dodged like the Lees' roundhouse, but it exposes his back, he's slow and he lacks their crowd control. Ranzou has the best keep-away game but lacks the other three's stopping power. At no point does it feel like you're wasting your time with any character or their moves, making the customarily sadistic stun->kill Technos engine most enjoyable to play around with.





Faces of agony. Broken bottle splits scrotum, breaks sprite limit.

Two foes onscreen max might sound paltry but Technos expertise proves alchemic. As usual their enemies are constantly attempting to pincer attack, and if they succeed will beat the living shit out of you with a savage fury alarming by even Technos brawler standards, forcing a retreat at best. Brutally easy to go from smacking chumps around the room to doubled over in agony with blows raining down, and dead is dead, staff roll included. This is a "WAHHH" point of contention with casuals, but I quite like it. Mortality ensures all confrontation is deadly serious, it makes maintaining dominance especially satisfying, and the extra characters are effectively score extends anyway. Also encourages competence with all three types, lest a favourite get critically injured or killed, and gives losing a teammate more impact than "rest -1." Death is no joke kids! This isn't shitty DBZ! It's motherfucking HNK!



The game is a sustained challenge, but nothing that'll surprise anyone accustomed to arcade examples of the genre. That's "JOB DONE" for console action gaming in my book bro! Vivid settings, classic expressive Technos sprites and stirring BGM with their inimitable, loveable SFX (door open *BWOOOP*) (bottle on skull *BWHAP*) round things out beautifully.

Criticismz:



-Unskippables before/after bosses and intermittently during the late game, but fortunately they're pretty brief. TBH with such sustained intensity they're less annoying than they might've been.

-DD2's awesome Lee grapple moves AWOL; shoulder throw and field goal kick in the teeth should've been combo enders. Somersaulting hair pull throw is neat + novel though.

Really like this one overall, recommends! It's pretty cheap too. Double Dragon Advance is bar none the superior Technos brawler but this one's venomous difficulty and quality balancing make it worth a look.

[opt2not]

I just wanted to recommend Kickle Cubicle. A friend of mine got me to try it out yesterday, and we were hooked for a few hours!
I know it's not a action'y type game like the others listed in this thread, but it's definitely a fun one, with good production values for it's day. Another IREM gem!

[BrianC]

I just wanted to recommend Kickle Cubicle. A friend of mine got me to try it out yesterday, and we were hooked for a few hours!
I know it's not a action'y type game like the others listed in this thread, but it's definitely a fun one, with good production values for it's day. Another IREM gem!

I have the JP version of that and it has some interesting differences. The levels in each world are chosen from a map, rather than in a set order. Some levels have more enemies and some levels are in different worlds than they are in the NES version. If I remember correctly, the JP version's title translates to something like Labyrinth Island.

[opt2not]

Nice! I'll check that version out. I definitely like the idea of selecting your stage order.

[evil_ash_xero]

Woo lordy.

Holy Diver is a brute, is it not?
I'm wondering how far I can actually get in this game. There are some Irem games that I have just never beaten. Never beat R-Type (made it to the last section of the last level, and gave in). Never got past stage 3 on R-Type II.

Watching YT vids about it, it looks totally doable, but it's just so strict. I've been able to make it to stage 4, and they are not fucking around. It's sort of drawing me in, because I see that it's possible, and I'm just kind of slowly making progress.

I don't know if I'll beat it, but I do like the game, as vicious as it is. I'm not a huge fan of how you have to change magics, since I hate having to pause the game to do it all the time. But I can overlook it. It's on the NES, so limitations and all.

On the flip side, I got into Kirby's Adventure. Really quite the other end of the spectrum, to say the least!
I knew I would like it, since I have Nightmare in Dreamland for the GBA. This one is a bit harder, so that means a lot. The game is too easy one way or another, but the GBA version is too too easy.

Really good game! The stage design is kind of scattershot, but I do like all the powerups and whatnot. After a while, the stages start to get a bit too similar, so that's not good. But overall, very sharp. I'm sure most have played it anyway, but that's my take, as someone who's not familiar with Kirby's games.

[ArmoredCore]

Battle Kid 1 & 2
Oniken

[evil_ash_xero]

Beat stage 4 of Holy Diver.

My GOD, what an annoying boss.

Tell me the other bosses aren't so cheap? I mean, I can take a difficult boss, but getting knocked off a platform in 2 seconds is very irritating.

[BIL]

st4/Golden Babylon is the game's hardest boss... no thanks to the fucking bullet flicker. st5/Powerslave and st6/Black Slayer take some figuring out but at least they can't one-shot you.

It's honestly the bullet flicker and input glitch that I dread most about HD. If the game wasn't such a memorably colossal and generally well-designed challenge, those flaws would be too much for me. As is it's a personal favourite even if I could never recommend it unreservedly like Konami, Tecmo, Natsume, Capcom and Sunsoft's best stuff.

[evil_ash_xero]

Yeah, it's a tough one, but it's well put together.

Irem have a knack for that. It's like a puzzle I want to solve.

I'm kind of spooked, because someone on YT talked about how stage 5 is one of the hardest stages ever. I hope that's just hyperbole.

[BIL]

Classic IREM infernal puzzlebox. ^__^

HD's really good at ensuring each subsequent stage outdoes all the previous ones in length and intensity, even with the character getting stronger all the time (provided you're getting all the HP maxups and a certain optional item in stage 4). But stage 4 is probably the game's sharpest difficulty increase - nothing in 1 through 3 compares. 5 and 6's hardest parts are nastier, but overall the final three are at least in the same ballpark (and you've already seen the most frustrating boss). If you can get 4 under control you should be able to finish the game with some determination.

You also get a hugely helpful upgrade for clearing 5, making 6 actually less intimidating than the previous two.

Actually, regarding my previous post - Irem's best stuff too! It's too bad HD doesn't control as flawlessly as Metal Storm. I still need to go back for the HD 1CC and MS 2-ALL, probably the two toughest (quality) sidescrolling clears on the console.

[evil_ash_xero]

Man, you got me motivated. I'm gonna get back on it.

[evil_ash_xero]

Beat it.

Jesus Christ, that little stretch at the end of stage 6, with the heads shooting you off those platforms almost drove me nuts.

That was certainly a challenge.

[BIL]

Congraturation! Yeah, the sniperface + homing raspberries + NO FUCKING FLOOR area is the climax of an entire design ethic. Aren't you glad you witnessed the horror firsthand?

The ending felt unusually epic as all hell after all that, haha.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm pretty happy I defeated it.

It was getting pretty nutty going over those stages again and again and again.

Hopefully the next game I play won't be such a ball buster.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Somersaulting hair pull throw is neat + novel though.

I also think it gives you some invulnerability which is nice, at least I don't remember getting hit out of it.

While I agree that DD2 is dominated by use of the hyper knee/uppercut, that's still actually fun to get the knack of. I'd actually say DD3 is even more flawed and is actually quite boring compared to DD2 due to issues both of bad level design and of poor move balancing. Sure, there's no hyper knee/uppercut, but the cyclone kick has basically replaced that as the move you spam all day long. Wait for enemy to run up to you, move up or down slightly, trick them into walking into a spin kick, repeat as necessary. There's a few added moves at least, but all the enemies in the game behave completely predictably and have more or less the same AI (with the ninjas doing some extra fancy stuff).

The first boss goes down with the nunchucks, the fourth boss has a ton more health but is extremely similar in strategy. The final boss is extremely unique and difficult, but the teleporting cobra transformation has such a wide, long lasting hitbox that again, you're mostly forced to resort to spin kicking (which has great range and keeps you at a safe distance). The other characers have single directional attacks that basically serve the same purpose. Chin's Claw is actually awesome though, since it does ridiculous damage per hit (you only kill on a knockdown though, but it mows down boss health).

The levels are very boring compared to DD1 or DD2. Sure, some of the levels were a bit gimmicky, but in DD3, there's basically no barriers in most cases. You can run to the end of Stage 2 and 4, and just fight all the enemies in one area as they appear. Stage 1 and Stage 3 are similarly bland since there's no artifical GO! barriers that force you to progress a little bit at a time. You can run through the entire map far more easily.

Then there's the last stage. Say what you want about the other games and their platformer levels, but the last stage is by far the most annoying to deal with, especially the italian guys who throw spears at you constantly. There's just nothing quite as fun as DD2's ninja bosses, or the phantom fight, or DD2's final boss fight (the invisibility thing was a lot of fun to deal with).

I actually never owned DD2 as a kid, I'd only played it as a friend. I had DD1 and DD3 though, but once I started to seriously sink my teeth in DD2, I thought it was a much better game overall.

[BIL]

DD3's gladiators, ninjas and female thugs can't use their projectiles unless you're far enough away from them (same goes for st1+4 bosses' flying knees). I really like that, makes distance no guarantee of safety and turns retreating foes from a reprieve into a developing threat.

I'd call DD2 the better game on account of its smoother controls, harder-hitting attacks and much more interesting levels - it's certainly not significantly inferior. But the knee warps the rest of the game around it. Annihilates all enemy and boss types without exception, and if they duck, just spam it again and again. You're invincible between knees, and its range makes you impossible to surround.

DD3's spinkick is powerful, but not to the degree that mixing things up a bit with strikes and grapples is a waste of time. Rather they're useful complements, since a ducked spinkick instantly puts you on the defensive. It's more efficient to stun and then regrab-beat an enemy a couple times, before breaking off and KOing them with a spinkick as they inevitably retaliate. And if you do get ducked, knee-style repeat spam will likely get you deeper in trouble. Much better to instant jump out of recovery (similar execution to the knee) and use the invincible, aimable and guaranteed-to-connect flip throw to snuff the incoming pincer beating. Chin's four-hit punch combo is the game's quickest and surest (unarmed) killer by far, but it's easily interrupted if your timing's slack, and it leaves your back wide open, so jumpkicking or simply moving around to ward off a devastating pincer becomes necessary, particularly with his slow speed.

Even this minimal flow can't exist in DD2 unless you actively cut the knee out of your repertoire, something I find jarring. Not that I don't willingly "play dumb" a little with both of these flawed, charming beaters for the sake of dispensing sweet Technos pain. I don't bother with DD3's daft special weapons outside of the last stage.

*I don't care for the platforming aspects of these three games at all - it's not what I'm playing for. I do enjoy pits and other instant death hazards like DD2's helicopter door, though, and DD3 lacks them outside of a few very specific and rare setpieces. I'd have stuck a nice broken bridge in the middle of China's first area, moved the fireplace into the cabin's center, and stuck some DD1-style wall smooshers in Italy.

[evil_ash_xero]

On a side note, I tried out the Sunsoft Collection on PSX, that has Battle Formula and Gimmick.

What a mess! The sound is instantly fucked up. I mean, it's really badly emulated. Then, the games have all sorts of extra slowdown, from what I can tell. But the sound is the thing that will slap you in the face right off the bat.

Avoid.

I've finally been able to get into Gimmick. It's charms have alluded me for a while.
I do think it's overrated, for a hidden treasure. With it's price, and all the hype, I would expect something a little more impressive. I think Little Samson is a good bit better, and I like Moon Crystal better too(with it's faults).
But, it seems to be growing on me. I would count that up to stage 3 getting a bit more interesting. And from YT vids, it seems to keep getting more interesting.

What do I have to do now, to get the good ending? I know I have to get those items, but is there anything else? And do I just get a better ending, or do I get an extra stage or something like that?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I can't remember anything wrong with Battle Formula and Gimmick! collection running on PS2.

[evil_ash_xero]

Really? I played it on a PS1, and the sound was complete garbage.

[BrianC]

Do you know where I can find a video of the collection being played on a real PSX without commentary? The only video I could find was of vol. 5 (the one with Hebereke) emulated with someone talking over it. Sound did seem off, but nowhere near the sound for the Sega Smash Pack for DC. I'm especially curious about how Gimmick is handled since it uses a special sound chip.

[cicada88]

Just wanted to say thanks to all the posters adding content to this thread--I've been lurking & benefitting from the info since I got my Everdrive