Amusingly bad reviews

[IrishNinja]

Herzog Zwei and several other genesis classics really got shat on by EGM in the day...others come to mind but i think thye've been covered.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just ran into this when trying to refresh my memory about the Space Manbow specifics:
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/konami ... oters5.htm

I wanted to be magnanimous about this, but the claim that Space Manbow is the only Konami-developed sidescrolling shooter on the MSX2...


Bogus!

Article is from 2009, far too late for such unresearched crap to be excused, especially when nemesis II / III (eve of destruction) are part of a well-known series (nemesis II got a european, or at least UK release) from a company this guy supposedly knows lots about.

[BrianC]

Just ran into this when trying to refresh my memory about the Space Manbow specifics:
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/konami ... oters5.htm

I wanted to be magnanimous about this, but the claim that Space Manbow is the only Konami-developed sidescrolling shooter on the MSX2...

Bogus!

Article is from 2009, far too late for such unresearched crap to be excused, especially when nemesis II / III (eve of destruction) are part of a well-known series (nemesis II got a european, or at least UK release) from a company this guy supposedly knows lots about.

Nemesis II and III are MSX1 games. The only reason those and Parodius aren't in that article are becuase they are in other articles. As far as I know, the article is actually correct about Space Manbow being the only side scrolling MSX2 shmup from Konami (all the others are MSX1 games).

[Ed Oscuro]

So I checked all three game boxes (Nemesis II was a European release):

Nemesis II: MSX logo only
Nemesis III (or rather, Gofer no Yabou Episode II): MSX and MSX2 logos
Space Manbow: MSX2 and MSX2+ logos

Most people will recognize that Space Manbow is a game for the MSX2+ due to the improved scrolling.
Nemesis III also has this dual-system feature: There is color cycling in some graphics, for instance. Of course, the game is pretty much the same and doesn't gain smooth scrolling.

Looks like I was wrong about Nemesis II, but I don't really feel I'm too harsh overall. When somebody writes "the only Konami sidescroller on MSX2" that is not only misleading, but it actively discourages a deeper understanding of the issues. Many sites cover small details like these in excellent detail, but they are widely scattered. If HG101's lead writer can't take the time to research things properly, then, it is worse than not having an article at all because now we have this disinformation competing for attention with properly written pages.

[Doctor Butler]

That said, the review seems somewhat reasonable and Destructoid has been pretty good, all told, about giving STGs publicity when no other site will.

Destructoid's community on the other hand, is pretty atrocious (not just with shmups, but with games, and social-interaction and discussion in general), and often spurts-out knee-jerk claims, or stupid questions that would answer themselves if they spent ten-seconds thinking about it.

Things like "Why are they making Dreamcast games?"

Likely because it's cheaper and easier to develop for, doesn't require a dedicated devkit, doesn't require licensing like PSN, or XBLive, and allows them to sell region-free hard-copies of games. And it's a marketing tactic, as was mentioned above that got them talking about the game.

And it worked.

Also, IGN, contradicting themselves in the same sentence:

Now, if you can ignore the fact that there really isn't a challenge here since you can continue forever (which, by the way, adds one point to your starting score every time you continue, so if you die a billion times you'd be at the top of the high score list), you'll find quite a challenge in store for you.

So, there is no challenge, but there's a challenge.

So, basketball is hard to play, unless I cheat?

[ACSeraph]

^I could literally feel a few of my brain cells dying as I read that.

Developers should just stop putting in infinite continues as a big fuck you to casuals too stupid to understand what they are there for. It's one thing for a random casual player to credit feed through something because all the pretty sparkles and shiny things make them happy inside, but for a "professional" reviewer to say "it's easy because I have infinite lives, and I can get a legit high score just by sucking!"... Just how much paint are they licking?

I guess a more reasonable solution to cater to casual stupidity would be maybe having to restart the stage if you continue? That makes a lot more sense than the current system, and actually would teach you to play.

[LordHypnos]

^I could literally feel a few of my brain cells dying as I read that.

Developers should just stop putting in infinite continues as a big fuck you to casuals too stupid to understand what they are there for. It's one thing for a random casual player to credit feed through something because all the pretty sparkles and shiny things make them happy inside, but for a "professional" reviewer to say "it's easy because I have infinite lives, and I can get a legit high score just by sucking!"... Just how much paint are they licking?

I guess a more reasonable solution to cater to casual stupidity would be maybe having to restart the stage if you continue? That makes a lot more sense than the current system, and actually would teach you to play.

Some games do a nifty thing where they start out by giving you no continues or maybe like 3, and then make you work for more continues. Mars Matrix is an example, but there are others. Also, I do like starting over at the beginning of a stage when continuing. That's a good idea.

[ACSeraph]

^Given the level of retardation shown by the reviewers I'm guessing their review for that system would be:

This game is terrible because it's just a grind until you finally earn enough continues to clear. The grind is just bloating their 15 minute game into something that takes countless hours, but is still mindlessly easy because you will eventually earn a ludicrous amount of continues. 1/10

[LordHypnos]

^Given the level of retardation shown by the reviewers I'm guessing their review for that system would be:

This game is terrible because it's just a grind until you finally earn enough continues to clear. The grind is just bloating their 15 minute game into something that takes countless hours, but is still mindlessly easy because you will eventually earn a ludicrous amount of continues. 1/10

Yeah... you're probably right.

[BIL]

This game is terrible because it's just a grind until you finally earn enough continues to clear. The grind is just bloating their 15 minute game into something that takes countless hours, but is still mindlessly easy because you will eventually earn a ludicrous amount of continues. 1/10

Spot on old chap. Case study.

[LordHypnos]

This game is terrible because it's just a grind until you finally earn enough continues to clear. The grind is just bloating their 15 minute game into something that takes countless hours, but is still mindlessly easy because you will eventually earn a ludicrous amount of continues. 1/10

Spot on old chap. Case study.

Ooh, that's bad >_< slightly different, but close enough.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ahh yes, a classic!

SUPEREASY <-- --> SUPERHARD

By the way I've started using the name arcade rapist I think it describes the mindset of these people better.

[mastermx]

I guess a more reasonable solution to cater to casual stupidity would be maybe having to restart the stage if you continue? That makes a lot more sense than the current system, and actually would teach you to play.

Omg I love this idea.

[drunkninja24]

^I could literally feel a few of my brain cells dying as I read that.

Developers should just stop putting in infinite continues as a big fuck you to casuals too stupid to understand what they are there for. It's one thing for a random casual player to credit feed through something because all the pretty sparkles and shiny things make them happy inside, but for a "professional" reviewer to say "it's easy because I have infinite lives, and I can get a legit high score just by sucking!"... Just how much paint are they licking?

Not to mention the fact that in this particular case, the reviewer obviously didn't take note of the fact that the ones counter caps out at 9 after you continue that many times

[BIL]

I'll transcribe our absent friend's most likely response ^_~

"PTBHHBBL U COULD JUS GET TEH WR THEN CONTINUE 1 TIME 2 BEAT THE WR"

Actually, crumbs, that'd only work for a couple games wouldn't it, he still be SOL

[xxx1993]

I've got three.

http://www.bordersdown.net/content/662- ... ft-Xbox360 - This review of DoDonPachi Saidaioujou.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31050 - My friend's review of Thunder Force VI
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/950768-thun ... iew-129646 This other review of Thunder Force VI, but even worse

[Kollision]

just caught this gem on facebook
1 star review of Akai Katana from Amazon

[Jonst]

^ I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

[stryc9]

That is so good.

Can't possibly be serious, though.

[spadgy]

I'm guessing it is serious. That list is like a role call of common misconceptions about shmups. And understandable ones, considering so much of the genre is about player-enforced rules. I was blissfully ignorant of ideas like 1CCs when I first started playing them.

[Acid King]

"Infinity continues"? Was that review written by an eight year old?

[stryc9]

I'm guessing it is serious. That list is like a role call of common misconceptions about shmups. And understandable ones, considering so much of the genre is about player-enforced rules. I was blissfully ignorant of ideas like 1CCs when I first started playing them.

Well, yeah. I was an extremely late comer to the internet, my join date for this very site was only a couple of years after first browsing on a friend's computer. I already had Daioujou for PS2, ordered from PA thru my friend's IC, and I just assumed the game was designed to be credit fed (being an arcade port).

Once I got my own connection, one of the first things I did was try to find more information about these games, which of course led me to this place and the realisation that arcade danmaku are entirely beatable without credit feeding ad infinitum, and that indeed, the games were designed with this philosophy in mind.

But anyone that has been on the net for a while, and has even a passing interest in the genre (enough presumably to want to write a review for it) can't really plead ignorance IMO. THere's clears on Youtube and plenty of resources here.

This place wasn't hard to find.

EDIT: one of the guy's gripes is 'you can only shoot forward'. That's either a blatant troll comment or the guy has never had contact with an arcade style shooting game before.

[Squire Grooktook]

The funny part is that his Conclusion is actually kinda sorta accurate, perhaps only guilty of overestimating the time it takes to master the game from a survival stand point?

[stryc9]

The funny part is that his Conclusion is actually kinda sorta accurate, perhaps only guilty of overestimating the time it takes to master the game from a survival stand point?

That's exactly what I thought. Took it as a hint it was a troll review, but anything possible.

[DazTM]

It reminds me when all the dreamcast shooters were getting scores in the 40s and 50s because they were 2D and could be completed in 45 minutes

[Doctor Butler]

Amazon.com....

[BrianC]

Amazon.com....

Yes. One thing I noticed is that the reason certain games get good reviews there is due to all the 5 star reviews that say "my 10 year old liked it" without saying anything else about the game.

[Despatche]

Nemesis II: MSX logo only
Nemesis III (or rather, Gofer no Yabou Episode II): MSX and MSX2 logos
Space Manbow: MSX2 and MSX2+ logos

games with msx and msx2 logos get a small bonus on msx2, like r-type; they're technically made to be playable on an msx, and neither of them are "msx2 games". games with msx2 and msx2+ logos have a similar relationship. it's more like the super game boy carts and less like the black game boy color carts.

If HG101's lead writer can't take the time to research things properly, then, it is worse than not having an article at all because now we have this disinformation competing for attention with properly written pages.

hg101 in a fucking nutshell

they
do
not
research
anything

nearly every single article is filled with errors to the point where the article is completely useless except for the screenshots

it is garbage. we deserve better.

I'm guessing it is serious. That list is like a role call of common misconceptions about shmups. And understandable ones, considering so much of the genre is about player-enforced rules. I was blissfully ignorant of ideas like 1CCs when I first started playing them.

that is in no conceivable way a "player-enforced rule", and the idea that people think so is the real misconception in this genre

this is why continues are so bad, this is what they have done

we need to get rid of them completely, we need to stop making these games "user friendly" and get people to understand that you are supposed to play the game again and again and learn how it works, that memorization is one of the two largest parts of "skill" along with execution, that fair actually means "reasonable to figure out"

send people to the stage select, get them to treat these games as a sport

people do this with dark souls, so they can do it with shmups

[Lord Satori]

we need to get rid of them completely

No. Just no.

[DocHauser]

I'd be in favour of getting rid of continues if there was still an option to practice levels separately, or a series of difficulty levels with an incentive to play each in turn; Jamestown did that pretty well, and I think it only gave you a couple of continues, so you couldn't credit-feed your way through the entire game.