Should Gary Glitter be shot?

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Should Gary Glitter be shot?

Yes
20
83%
Yes
4
17%
 
Total votes: 24

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Marc
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Post by Marc »

OK, he had sex with a 12 year old and an 18 year old girl.

Obviously the 12 year old is disturbing, but what's up with the 18 year old?

At what age do you consider this sort of thing appropriate?

Wow, all my morals must have been destroyed somewhere. In so many non-'first class' countries, children are essentially forced into prostitution at an early age (IE 12 or so). That doesn't mean UK gents should be buying tickets to go have sex with them--and clearly this guy has some issues--but the whole consensual thing (I know, the girl is 12; there are a lot of pregnant 12-14 year olds at the school I teach at) doesn't make me feel the guy needs to have his head or johnson whacked off.

Why not just a couple years of prison + couple years mandatory therapy?
I'd like to hear somone that has had a friend, relative or, god forbid, child of their own go through something like abuse from a so-called 'eldfer' talk in this manner. The 18 year old? Dunno, prostitution is another subject entirely. 12 year olds that are press-ganged into this sort of shit? Anyone that takes advantage of that hasn't got a decent bone in their body, is of no use to this world, and as such shouldn't be residing here.

I think he should be offered a choice between slow death, or prison with one mandatory ass-raping per week. See how he feels about the whole situation then. They could pay him after the event of course.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

You guys that are saying "shoot him" sound like Nancy Grace. I'm not saying the guy is a great guy, or even innocent, but due process (even if it is abused from time to time) is what seperates civiliazation from neanderthals. I don't the inner workings of the legal system of each posters relative country, but I do know there's at least two sides to every story.
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thegreathopper
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Post by thegreathopper »

Pete Townsend was caught doing the same and got away with it,
he was on TV a couple of weeks ago presenting awards to some rock hasbeens..

So if you are in The Who you get let off, but of course Pete was doing research for a book..

theevilfunkster wrote:
CMoon wrote: Why not just a couple years of prison + couple years mandatory therapy?
Because - "Glitter was sentenced to four months in jail in Britain, but served only two, after admitting downloading more than 4,000 images of children, some as young as two, on his laptop computer. The pictures showed boys and girls being sexually abused, tortured, bound, gagged and blindfolded."

Spending time in prison didn't discourage him from traveling the world looking for kids to abuse.
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CMoon
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Post by CMoon »

Marc wrote: I'd like to hear somone that has had a friend, relative or, god forbid, child of their own go through something like abuse from a so-called 'eldfer' talk in this manner. The 18 year old? Dunno, prostitution is another subject entirely. 12 year olds that are press-ganged into this sort of shit? Anyone that takes advantage of that hasn't got a decent bone in their body, is of no use to this world, and as such shouldn't be residing here.

I think he should be offered a choice between slow death, or prison with one mandatory ass-raping per week. See how he feels about the whole situation then. They could pay him after the event of course.
Hmmm...I mean, I don't know if any of you read world news, but 12 year old prostitution is common place in MANY countries. I guess the issues in my mind are broader than this. That a 12 year old is allowed to prostitute herself as the only way of providing for her family which is all suffering from AIDS (this is now becoming the norm in many African nations) is obviously beyond terms such as 'legality', but if Gary Glitter traveled to said country to enjoy said unfortunate situation instead of the local clientel, then clearly a crime has been committed. I'm playing devil's advocate, but I also think some of you are being nearly crusade-like in wanting to kill a person that perhaps we'd be better locking up under the pretense of a mental illness.

That said, perhaps my issues with this are because while the RAPE and ABUSE of children is clearly despisable, I think those who are sharpening their knives over a convicted pervert should direct their attention toward the equally harmful (if not more harmful) act of child neglect committed by thoustands of American parents every day which is perfectly legal. The damage done to the psyche of children who are not emotionally nourished and prorperly reared & disciplined is not just the findings of psychological studies, but further supported by neurological evidence--and I would not be surprised if the long term results were far more damaging than those of childhood rape; certainly they would at least be equal.

I think it is very easy to become overwhelmed with emotions when we talk about rape of a child because it is intrusive and violent, where because the act of child negligence is not a sensational one, we do not call for the heads of parents who in all reality leave their children emotionally retarded, and stunted in developmental growth (if someone needs it, I think I can give a citation from the journal of Science that printed the study I have in mind.)

If I could well up the amount of hate you've managed for the physical abuse of children, I'd be calling for the death (or imprisonment) of thousands of parents in the USA alone. I suppose we might argue however that one can not be a criminal unless they know they are doing wrong, and since many 'abusive' parents do so unknowingly, often in part because they are themselves still minors, unwed and overworked, or themselves neglected as children, they themselves seem victims.

Gary Glitter clearly suffers from a psychological illness and should be removed from the public at large for his own safety and others; but if we must be heartless to not want his head on a stake, then I think we've all missed the larger picture of child abuse, and bought only into that which has been sensationalized.
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Arcatech
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Post by Arcatech »

Well put cmoon.

I have a problem with a death penalty because a person could be wrongly accused. Granted, the chances of this happening are slim but it would be hideous if someone was put to the death wrongly. I've read reports of people overturning sentences so its entirely possible.

so dark. :evil:
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Post by D »

CMoon wrote:
Marc wrote: I'd like to hear somone that has had a friend, relative or, god forbid, child of their own go through something like abuse from a so-called 'eldfer' talk in this manner. The 18 year old? Dunno, prostitution is another subject entirely. 12 year olds that are press-ganged into this sort of shit? Anyone that takes advantage of that hasn't got a decent bone in their body, is of no use to this world, and as such shouldn't be residing here.

I think he should be offered a choice between slow death, or prison with one mandatory ass-raping per week. See how he feels about the whole situation then. They could pay him after the event of course.
Hmmm...I mean, I don't know if any of you read world news, but 12 year old prostitution is common place in MANY countries. I guess the issues in my mind are broader than this. That a 12 year old is allowed to prostitute herself as the only way of providing for her family which is all suffering from AIDS (this is now becoming the norm in many African nations) is obviously beyond terms such as 'legality', but if Gary Glitter traveled to said country to enjoy said unfortunate situation instead of the local clientel, then clearly a crime has been committed. I'm playing devil's advocate, but I also think some of you are being nearly crusade-like in wanting to kill a person that perhaps we'd be better locking up under the pretense of a mental illness.

That said, perhaps my issues with this are because while the RAPE and ABUSE of children is clearly despisable, I think those who are sharpening their knives over a convicted pervert should direct their attention toward the equally harmful (if not more harmful) act of child neglect committed by thoustands of American parents every day which is perfectly legal. The damage done to the psyche of children who are not emotionally nourished and prorperly reared & disciplined is not just the findings of psychological studies, but further supported by neurological evidence--and I would not be surprised if the long term results were far more damaging than those of childhood rape; certainly they would at least be equal.

I think it is very easy to become overwhelmed with emotions when we talk about rape of a child because it is intrusive and violent, where because the act of child negligence is not a sensational one, we do not call for the heads of parents who in all reality leave their children emotionally retarded, and stunted in developmental growth (if someone needs it, I think I can give a citation from the journal of Science that printed the study I have in mind.)

If I could well up the amount of hate you've managed for the physical abuse of children, I'd be calling for the death (or imprisonment) of thousands of parents in the USA alone. I suppose we might argue however that one can not be a criminal unless they know they are doing wrong, and since many 'abusive' parents do so unknowingly, often in part because they are themselves still minors, unwed and overworked, or themselves neglected as children, they themselves seem victims.

Gary Glitter clearly suffers from a psychological illness and should be removed from the public at large for his own safety and others; but if we must be heartless to not want his head on a stake, then I think we've all missed the larger picture of child abuse, and bought only into that which has been sensationalized.
mental illness?
I don't give a fuck. Hang 'em high.
Rather to have 5 men hang, one of which is innocent if it will spread fear amongst pedofiles.

Just think about the children. It's not that it's a crime it's that it could ruin a child's life forever.

I know that the world is fucked up and some men probably can't be blamed because they got a mental illness, but child abuse is too great a crime against humanity, let 'em all fry.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

Rather to have 5 men hang, one of which is innocent if it will spread fear amongst pedofiles.
Will you offer to be one of the innocent? Didn't a famous person (a founding father of the US) say "better to have 200 guilty men run free than an innocent man imprisoned", or something along those lines?
Just think about the children. It's not that it's a crime it's that it could ruin a child's life forever.
Do you stop the drug trade by arresting the users? No, you do it by arresting the dealers and manufacturers. Of course, if they get all of them then tens of thousands are out of jobs, so we'll never see that. I assume child prostitution rings are somewhat the same.
but child abuse is too great a crime against humanity, let 'em all fry.
Do you think she finds clients on her own? Again, when the client is some washed up celebrity it's good press, but will hardly help the problem. Find out why the fuck the 12 year old is in prostitution (parents probably) and do something to them.
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Diabollokus
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Post by Diabollokus »

What did Gary Glittet say to the school children as he pulled up alongside them in a black bmw x5?

''You wanna be in my Gang Bang, My Gang Bang, My Gang Bang!''



EDIT: {Someone please laugh at this, I logged on just to see if anyone found it amusing :D }
Last edited by Diabollokus on Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CMoon
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Post by CMoon »

D wrote: I know that the world is fucked up and some men probably can't be blamed because they got a mental illness, but child abuse is too great a crime against humanity, let 'em all fry.
You quoted my entire post, but did you actually read any of it? Very little of it was about exploitation of underage girls. Very little of it had to do with mental illness.

It is really hard to take statements such as 'hang 'em!' seriously if we aren't considering all forms childhood abuse.
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professor ganson
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Post by professor ganson »

Those of you who want this guy strung up: what do you take the function of punishment to be? To my mind the central and guiding purpose is deterrence/protection. To my knowledge there is NO good evidence that the death penalty serves as a deterrent, and it doesn't protect the public significantly better than imprisonment or hospitalization.

If it were shown to me that there was a genuine benefit to capital punishment, then I would likely be on board. (That's because I'm largely an act-utilitarian in my moral thinking, though I acknowledge the counterintuitive aspects of this way of thinking.) As things stand, I'm against it. And I think that those in favor of it are largely moved by feelings of revenge. I can relate to those feelings, but I think they ought to be resisted in matters of justice.
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Post by undamned »

CMoon wrote:Gary Glitter clearly suffers from a psychological illness and should be removed from the public at large for his own safety and others; but if we must be heartless to not want his head on a stake, then I think we've all missed the larger picture of child abuse, and bought only into that which has been sensationalized.
Good call. I will say though, that this thread is focused on the sexual aspect of child abuse, hence all the discussion.
GaijinPunch wrote:Do you think she finds clients on her own? Again, when the client is some washed up celebrity it's good press, but will hardly help the problem. Find out why the fuck the 12 year old is in prostitution (parents probably) and do something to them.
Wordup. I know people involved in organizations that adopt children out of prostitution in Tailand. Impoverished parents whore their children out or outright sell them, there.
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Post by Dylan1CC »

Yeah her parents, pimp whoever are to blame to but that in no way absolves Glitter of what he did. She is a child and he is a child molester pure and simple so he is dangerous. He hasn't changed a bit since he was caught with the child porn years ago. I'll also say it is actually a bit gratifying that he is going to be thrown into a dirty jail after Michael Jackson getting off scott free this past year. No not executed, but lock him up and throw away the key. Although one could maybe also argue the Vietnamese are just using him as a scapegoat to make it look like they actually care. :roll: No good guys at all here.
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Marc
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Post by Marc »

Quote:
Just think about the children. It's not that it's a crime it's that it could ruin a child's life forever.


Do you stop the drug trade by arresting the users? No, you do it by arresting the dealers and manufacturers. Of course, if they get all of them then tens of thousands are out of jobs, so we'll never see that. I assume child prostitution rings are somewhat the same.
I sort of see your point, but to compare drug users and child abusers, whether the kids are prostitutes or not, is a bit of a leap.
Those of you who want this guy strung up: what do you take the function of punishment to be? To my mind the central and guiding purpose is deterrence/protection. To my knowledge there is NO good evidence that the death penalty serves as a deterrent, and it doesn't protect the public significantly better than imprisonment or hospitalization.
And who pays for this imprisonment and/or hospitalisation? Oh yeah, we do. I'm tired of reading how much it costs to look after pieces of filth like this, who in all likelyhood will never again contribute a damn thing to society. When they're so obviously guilty, why bother to lock them up? The sick fuck should have been beaten to death the minute images of 2 year old kids were found on his computer - that's the thing that angers me most in any of this. He's a waste of space, and should be put down like a dog.

Again,
theevilfunkster Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CMoon wrote:

Why not just a couple years of prison + couple years mandatory therapy?


Because - "Glitter was sentenced to four months in jail in Britain, but served only two, after admitting downloading more than 4,000 images of children, some as young as two, on his laptop computer. The pictures showed boys and girls being sexually abused, tortured, bound, gagged and blindfolded."

Spending time in prison didn't discourage him from traveling the world looking for kids to abuse.
Re-read that last sentance The pictures showed boys and girls being sexually abused, tortured, bound, gagged and blindfolded. Why BOTHER to cure anyone that gets their kicks in this manner? They don't fucking deserve it.[/quote]
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Post by GaijinPunch »

whoever are to blame to but that in no way absolves Glitter of what he did.
I don't think anyone is trying to say that. I don't think it warrants the death penalty...especially if such judgement is passed down from a bunch games freaks on the fucking internet.
I sort of see your point, but to compare drug users and child abusers, whether the kids are prostitutes or not, is a bit of a leap.
It was the only analogy I could think of that might fit. It's not really about the severity, but the whole picture of the crime. My point was, Gary Glitter (whoever that is) while perhaps a lowlife, is not the most guilty party in this whole deal.
Oh yeah, we do. I'm tired of reading how much it costs to look after pieces of filth like this
Read up. Due to due process and appeals (which ain't going anywhere), frying an inmate can cost as much as housing them for their lives, or so I have read. Besides, you could easily make them work for their meals and wages which other countries do. Besides, if we didn't spend it on jails, it would just go in some corrupt politicians pocket.
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professor ganson
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Post by professor ganson »

Marc wrote:
Those of you who want this guy strung up: what do you take the function of punishment to be? To my mind the central and guiding purpose is deterrence/protection. To my knowledge there is NO good evidence that the death penalty serves as a deterrent, and it doesn't protect the public significantly better than imprisonment or hospitalization.
And who pays for this imprisonment and/or hospitalisation? Oh yeah, we do. I'm tired of reading how much it costs to look after pieces of filth like this, who in all likelyhood will never again contribute a damn thing to society.
In fact here in the US it costs taxpayers much more to put someone to death than to imprison that person for life. I know it seems odd, but I've heard and read this so many times that it must be true.
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Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

I think the point of this thread is that Mr Glitter - in order to escape persecution for his crimes here in the UK - has knowingly travelled to a country where the maximum penalty for child rape is death by firing squad. -And he is still messing around with kids.
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