Sega Saturn Q's

[rmwing]

I have a PAL Saturn at the moment but I had no concept of 50/60hz at the time. Is it possible to do a 50/60hz mod or would it be better to get an import and an action replay cart (was going to get a replay cart eventually anyway)

Cheers in advance!

[Fudoh]

50/60Hz mod is as easy as it gets. And while you're add it, just add another two switches for region switching, so you don't need an Action Replay.

[BuckoA51]

You may have some issues with a PAL modded Saturn at 60hz on something like a Framemeister, if you're using a CRT however there is no problem. There's even switchless mods that let you use the reset button to change regions and toggle 50/60hz if you don't like switches sticking out of your console.

[blizzz]

I also have a few questions:

- Which version of the console is recommended for use with the Framemeister?
- Does the V3 Universal modchip work on all consoles, and can it be combined with region mods?
- Is there an easy way to use a 230V PSU? (a step-down converter wouldn't be a big problem though)

I'm mostly interested in Bomberman, some Shmups and Daytona[*]. So I guess a Japanese console would be best, as some games are Japan exclusive and others cheaper than the US versions. The problem: I think that the standard JP consoles are super ugly. The special versions (translucent, Hitachi / JVC) are rare and more expensive than I would like to pay.

I like the design of the US Saturns. Problem here is that it's significantly harder to find US consoles as many US sellers will just label everything as "excellent". But it's not impossible to find. So I think that a US Saturn with a region switch mod (and a modchip) would be the better choice. Which version of the console would be best suited for the job? The Framemeister wiki says that Model 1 consoles have a slightly better video quality. Are there any other Pros and Cons for the different models?

[*]Daytona mostly because of this

Edit: Does the Action Replay 4M Plus have 100% compatibility as a region bypass?

[SuperDeadite]

Panzer Dragoon Saga does not work on a PAR as it has a secondary protection system that actually checks for a bootable cartridge. I've heard there are cheat codes for the PAR that can disable the check, but I've read conflicting reports for different region versions of the game. It will work just fine on an ST Key though as that cart works differently (disables region check then dumps you to the Saturn dashboard). AFAIK, that's the only game that doesn't work on a PAR.

Oh and KoF '95 and Ultraman use actual ROM carts (not RAM expansion carts), so they need their custom carts to run at all.

[muckyfingers]

If you plan on playing Metal Slug, the official 1MB Ram cart is recommended as it has some noticeable slowdown when using a 4meg or 4in1 Pro Action Replay cart.

http://typicalgeek.blogspot.com/2012/06 ... -look.html

[blizzz]

Ah, good to know. I thought Metal Slug was always laggy on the Saturn. I don't really care about it though. Metal Slug X and 3 are the better games.

In the Classic Game Room review of the Action Replay 4M Plus he mentions that there is a problem with Soukyugurentai. But this thread says that it's just a problem with the version of the game. So I'll have to make sure that I get the Otokuyo version, which seems to be the one with extra Kanji on the cover.

For the video quality question I found this post by Fudoh. Is this still relevant, or was it fixed by a firmware update?

[Fudoh]

For the video quality question I found this post by Fudoh. Is this still relevant, or was it fixed by a firmware update?

as said back then already, never mind. By adjusting the settings, all models are fine. The Model 2 Saturn was one of the only systems I had ever to adjust the skew setting on the Framemeister.

My experience with 3rd party carts is that they wear down the slot and you might have problems running the original Sega carts (Memory cart, 1MB SNK, 4MB Capcom) properly over time.

I didn't know there was a region-free bios. Sounds good, but then again modding a Saturn using switches is easy as well. Basically just jumper configurations.

You really need a mod chip to run CD-Rs ? I have one model 2 unit which has one installed, but I never use it.

[blizzz]

Thanks for your help once again, Fudoh!

The region-free bios looks like too much work if a simple Action Replay or switch mod will do the same. A mod chip would be nice to test out some games before I buy them. They're not exactly the cheapest at the moment.

I've got my eyes on a US model 1 Saturn at the moment. But if you want to part with your unused model 2 I wouldn't refuse a good offer.

[TransatlanticFoe]

In the Classic Game Room review of the Action Replay 4M Plus he mentions that there is a problem with Soukyugurentai. But this thread says that it's just a problem with the version of the game. So I'll have to make sure that I get the Otokuyo version, which seems to be the one with extra Kanji on the cover.

The problems are fairly minor:

1. Graphical glitches (like a grid overlay) in score attack mode
2. The graphical glitches above are only present in the full game mode IF you skip the launch sequence animation
3. Text prior to bosses is messed up

If you don't skip the launch animation, everything works fine AND the in-game text is translated to English - I rather like the original release because of the latter.

It's because the original release contains partially localised code (Terra Diver), which is removed from the Otokuyo edition - so you get no glitches, but no English text either. It's the only version you want if you care about the score attack modes.

[darcagn]

The region-free bios looks like too much work if a simple Action Replay or switch mod will do the same.

Depends on what model Saturn you get. If you get lucky, and get a very early board in your model 1, it's literally a chip sitting in a socket that you can pop out and swap with a replacement, only tool needed is a Phillips screwdriver. However, if you get the usual surface-mount BIOS chip, it's a huge pain in the ass, because the original Sega MaskROM is smaller in width than replacement FlashROMs, meaning you have to bend the legs back to get the legs to line up with the pads, and it's extremely hard to ensure a good connection without damaging some traces or pads along the way.

You really need a mod chip to run CD-Rs ? I have one model 2 unit which has one installed, but I never use it.

Yep, and the Saturn modchips don't disable region checking either (the copy protection is done within the disk drive firmware, the region checking is done within the BIOS). The Saturn and the Dreamcast use the same type of copy protection (checking for the holographic ring that has the Sega Enterprises text on it). The Dreamcast's copy protection was never broken because it wasn't necessary; Sega accidentally left an alternative backdoor booting method that doesn't require authentication from the GD-ROM drive. The Saturn doesn't have this backdoor.

[Fudoh]

The Saturn and the Dreamcast use the same type of copy protection (checking for the holographic ring that has the Sega Enterprises text on it).

is it actually known WHAT exactly the drive's firmware is checking for ? Is there data hidden on the outer ring and is it really just that holographic image ?

[darcagn]

The Saturn and the Dreamcast use the same type of copy protection (checking for the holographic ring that has the Sega Enterprises text on it).

is it actually known WHAT exactly the drive's firmware is checking for ? Is there data hidden on the outer ring and is it really just that holographic image ?

I believe there is some kind of data encoded in that holographic image, some kind of data written in a special way past the TOC. I know it's been dumped, but there's no way to write it back with consumer hardware.

Here's the patent info on it.

[evil_ash_xero]

If you plan on playing Metal Slug, the official 1MB Ram cart is recommended as it has some noticeable slowdown when using a 4meg or 4in1 Pro Action Replay cart.

http://typicalgeek.blogspot.com/2012/06 ... -look.html

Wow. I never knew this.

Ordered one just now. It certainly does chug in spots. I hope this helps.

[gray117]

I think you need a model 2 (round buttons) to fit in modchip to a saturn...?

[antron]

I think you need a model 2 (round buttons) to fit in modchip to a saturn...?

you can mod the modchip, but success rate is supposedly lower.

[darcagn]

I think you need a model 2 (round buttons) to fit in modchip to a saturn...?

There are modchips for model 1 Saturns as well, but some chips you have to modify for model 1s and some are made for it. Bad_Ad84 and Zer0-2k11 are working on a new universal Saturn modchip that will be able to work with every model. More info here: http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... post741213

[blizzz]

I received a Victor V·Saturn RG-JX2 today

Overall it's in good condition and works just fine, but I noticed that there is a wire at the expansion slot: Photo
Is this part of some kind of common mod, or an indication that the console had to be repaired before? It doesn't play backups and there are no switches, so I have no idea what that wire is used for.

[muckyfingers]

I received a Victor V·Saturn RG-JX2 today

Overall it's in good condition and works just fine, but I noticed that there is a wire at the expansion slot: Photo
Is this part of some kind of common mod, or an indication that the console had to be repaired before? It doesn't play backups and there are no switches, so I have no idea what that wire is used for.

That wire is just grounding the shielding to the motherboard. I don't think it needs it, but who knows if it was factory done or done by a previous owner. Maybe it was done in hopes to get rid of the common audio hum while using RGB cables.

[blizzz]

Thanks for the reply. I took the top part of the console off and couldn't see any other modifications. So I guess you're right and it's just some extra ground connection.

[R79]

Get a Japanese Saturn off a Japanese seller off eBay.com.

Should be around the same price as a mid range shooter for the system. PAL is disgusting for '90s gaming. You'll need a power convertor, and a 21 pin scart cable. Start with stuff like Darius Gaiden and Strikers 1945, to ease yourself in for the big guns of Batsugun and Thunder Force V.

[neorichieb1971]

Outrun only works on older models of the Sega Saturn. It was one game that used a chip that few other games did and Sega took it out of newer models.

However, the reasoning might be wrong.. I think I read something like that eons ago.

[speedlolita]

Worth noting that a few members on ASSEMblergames created a modchip that can be used with 21 and 20 pin drives with little to no modification.

I have one in my HST-3210 and it's been perfect.

It's called the Phantom Universal.

If you want the best RGB image out of a Saturn I recommend getting the second revision of the Official SEGA SCART cable and removing c-sync (pin 9) and supplying 9V there from the PSU in favour of RGB switching.

[blizzz]

It's nice to know that there are working modchips, but I'm hoping for a drive emulator. The RheaV2 seems to be functional, so maybe that will be a nice mod for the Saturn. Maybe we'll even get an Everdrive?

But since I got a Japanese console, I don't need any mods / Action Replay at the moment. I ordered Soukyugurentai, Layer Section, Panzer Dragoon, Saturn Bomberman and a few others. Should be enough for the start. For the RGB cable I went with one from retro_console_accessories which should arrive next week hopefully.

I didn't know about Outrun being incompatible with the model 2 console. Are there any other games that have problems?
Edit: It seems like there is an updated version of the disc that works on model 2.

[neorichieb1971]

It's nice to know that there are working modchips, but I'm hoping for a drive emulator. The RheaV2 seems to be functional, so maybe that will be a nice mod for the Saturn. Maybe we'll even get an Everdrive?

But since I got a Japanese console, I don't need any mods / Action Replay at the moment. I ordered Soukyugurentai, Layer Section, Panzer Dragoon, Saturn Bomberman and a few others. Should be enough for the start. For the RGB cable I went with one from retro_console_accessories which should arrive next week hopefully.

I didn't know about Outrun being incompatible with the model 2 console. Are there any other games that have problems?
Edit: It seems like there is an updated version of the disc that works on model 2.

I just read about Outrun. Although I have no idea how to differentiate from a working disc to a non working disc. The version of the game I had was the first release and it hung at the title screen. I was going to get a white saturn.

[Xan]

I've read something about the Action Replay carts actually causing Saturns to burn out, can this possibly be true?

Also maybe reiterating one of the questions in this thread, but I don't really get it, what's the advantage of a modchip (apart from reading CD-Rs of course)? From what I understand something like a ST Key should already be able to play NTSC games in 60 Hz on a PAL console? Or, what's the point in fancy 50/60 Hz switch mods? Running 60 Hz games in 50 Hz would obviously be pointless, while running 50 Hz games in 60 Hz wouldn't have a 100% success rate due to some games being optimized in terms of PAL borders and/or speed.

[blizzz]

I've read that some of the 3rd party carts that were released for the Saturn used a thicker PCB than the original carts. Those could widen the pin connector. But I've never heard about any other problems.

I think you don't need a modchip anymore, unless you want to play PAL games in 60Hz. There are some games that require the RAM expansion, though they should also work with the 4 in 1 Action Replay. But since some Shmups have become super expensive it might still be worth it just for the backup support.

[blank964]

I use a chip from Sega Style. I think it's call a phantom chip. Works for the 50 or so backups I've tried on my VA0 NTSC-U.

Personally, I'm waiting patiently for a Saturn Everdrive...

[Fudoh]

From what I understand something like a ST Key should already be able to play NTSC games in 60 Hz on a PAL console? Or, what's the point in fancy 50/60 Hz switch mods?

this would be total news to me. A 60Hz mod (or switch if you like to keep playing PAL games) is a must on any PAL Saturn unit. The three modding stages (region, speed, copy protection) are totally independent of each other. E.g. if you get a chip for CD-Rs you still need a region mod. If you got a region switch, you still need a 50/60Hz switch and so on.... And don't forget that not all PAL titles have been adjusted in speed. And the ones that have been adjusted can be fun being played additionally sped up using a 60Hz switch (think of teh racing games).

[Xan]

So these carts would play NTSC games on a PAL console, but slower and with borders? Can't see much appeal in that, but I guess it would have been nice for the American market (JP imports).