petition to convince CAVE to release games on steam

[thetricker24]

what do you think?
i think we should do a petition. in order to motivate them to release their last games on steam, so we could all buy it, and avoid mame by the way.
or maybe we could all put a comment on their active facebook page https://www.facebook.com/CAVECoLtdJP?fref=ts for example on the last article "please release cave shooting games on STEAM". we need to be many people...
sorry for my rude english btw

[trap15]

Petitions don't work, and Japan doesn't use Steam.

Have fun.

[xorthen]

Why steam? It would be better to release them on a disc.

[geekmiki]

Cave doesn't give a sh*t about Western markets and Western markets don't give a sh*t about Cave...

The attempts to sell in the West have been disappointing at best (through Raising Star Games or iOS/GooglePlay) and their whole strategy to conquer these markets has been put aside for a couple of years. Steam is unlikely to happen.

Unfortunately, you're better off getting an NTSC-J 360

[thetricker24]

Petitions don't work, and Japan doesn't use Steam.

Have fun.

that's why crimson clover will be out on steam...

[geekmiki]

that's why crimson clover will be out on steam...

Crimson Clover is not a Cave game... Clover-TAC/Yotsubane was invited to Stunfest 2013, he experienced the Western interest for the genre directly. Plus, he's a doujin dev, so he does whatever pleases him without sales figures/development cost pressure.

As, I said before, Cave doesn give a sh*it about Western markets.

[Squire Grooktook]

Personally, I think the games would do pretty well on Steam. Assuming it was a fairly cheap port and didn't cost too much, I think digital distribution would probably be the best way to distribute the games.

[thetricker24]

Cave doesn't give a sh*t about Western markets and Western markets don't give a sh*t about Cave...

i agree with the first, but not the second.

we would lost nothing to try... but anyway, maybe you are right.

[Mero]

Wasn't there a thread identical to this not long ago? Got a sense of deja vu.

[n0rtygames]

There's enough of an interest in PC gaming for doujin stuff to be viable but I am less convinced that it's worthwhile for larger companies. For a small (relatively speaking) game like Clover made by one guy, he was able to create a great game which was PC only and the game had a physical release which is now out of print. I'd say that's pretty successful. Would it be viable for Cave? Perhaps not. They have about 160 employees according to wikipedia. Treasure are boasting about 30 employees. Given company sizes, Treasure can probably justify the steam release of Ikaruga on account of having less people to pay. Cave less so.

While it might be the case that PC games are a niche in Japan - STGs are also a niche. Even in Japan. That's an important fact to consider, because you're not talking about a customer base of millions of people when it comes to shmups.

If Yotsubane of all people can create a PC game that explodes with the popularity of Crimson Clover, then get an arcade deal then a steam release - I'm sorry but this pretty much blows the anti pc-gaming arguments out of the water. Keeping in mind his game was PC based way before the Nesica thing even happened, it is bordering on ludicrous to suggest that PC gaming with regards to STG is irrelevant given who Yotsubane actually is. Then there's also that Touhou thing.

So yes, doujin & small companies - totally worthwhile. Cave? Questionable. They'd need to sell over 350k units at £10 if they were to give each of their employees a years salary of £30k and the likelyhood that everyone would be getting an even £30k split in an established company is quite slim. In 2009, in the first week of release - Deathsmiles sold 19,635 units in Japan. By the end of 2009, it had sold 30,000 units. By 2011 - it had sold 100,000. So the numbers aren't really all that big enough to make it justifiable for a larger business.

That said, digital distribution is much cheaper. If they're no longer selling copies on console THEN it would make sense. But given the recent platinum release I suspect the console versions still have some life left in them.

[Casey120]

Do I buy a Japanese 360 or do I try to move the whole Earth to get the games on the platform of my preference and save a couple of bucks

[Squire Grooktook]

That said, digital distribution is much cheaper. If they're no longer selling copies on console THEN it would make sense. But given the recent platinum release I suspect the console versions still have some life left in them.

I think this is what people really want. How much would it cost to do a quick slapdash port for digital distribution?

[thetricker24]

They have about 160 employees according to wikipedia.

don't forget cave is not only a video game company. i don't think the video game "departement" of cave is composed of 160 people...
maybe 30 maximum.

Do I buy a Japanese 360 or do I try to move the whole Earth to get the games on the platform of my preference and save a couple of bucks Image

ahahah, yeah and not.
PC and xbox are really different imo, that's not only a question of saving bucks, but also a question of confortability and access.
and i really think a steam port of saidaioujou for example, would have made much more sells than on xbox

[Bananamatic]

just dont sign it as thenigger Nigger again

[Blinge]

I'm not holding out any hopes in the slightest, but just thought I'd say that marketing these games as a Japanese niche thing would really work.

I think the number of people/gamers/nerdzzz whose ears prick up at any mention of the word "Japan" is underestimated and underused by those attempting to market to the west.

[GSK]

Cave won't be making any new arcade STGs for the forseeable future, and they've already declared that they will no longer be producing their own ports for the home market, so petitioning Cave directly is a waste of time.

The only way these games will be released on PC or any other platform is via a third-party licensee, ie someone who licenses the games from CAVE and handles/publishes the ports themselves, but no (western) publisher is gonna do that unless they believe they'll actually sell, and as we all know, petitions aren't worth jack.

You wanna send the message that there's a market on PC for genuine STGs? Buy the ones that are coming or already out--Crimson Clover, Ikaruga, the Siter Skain stuff, fuck, even Jamestown--and then pimp the hell out of them on streams, message boards, etc so that people outside the established STG circles can get excited about them, too.

Of course, the flipside is that publishers would need to make an effort to promote these games if they expect to recoup their investment, rather than just dumping them online with little fanfare, something I fully expect to happen with CC.

[Lord Satori]

Steam? Why steam? Why is it always steam? I remember when it first came out and it was just "that thing that you can play Half-Life on".

Now companies are always releasing stuff on steam along with some new douche content that only they get to play while they leave the rest of the market to rot. It bugs the crap outta me! Why release something on some virtual console to a company that gets a portion of your money for not doing shit?

Also, there's another way to play games on the PC. It's a magical thing called "emulation". It's so easy trap15 could do it.

[GSK]

Steam is the undisputed market leader when it comes to PC gaming and publishers ignore it at their own peril. There are many publishers that do DRM-free releases across multiple DD portals in addition to Steam, but there's no way anyone is ever gonna skip Steam entirely, like it or not.

[mastermx]

Though op wrote steam, I think he mostly means PC.

[kilauea]

Shouldn't underestimate how many copies of a game can shift on Steam. If you can get a game on steam, and I don't think Cave are going to struggle doing that, it will make them money. Steam has maxed at over 7 million concurrent users online, you only need 5% of the max concurrent (not total users) to shift your 350k copies.

Look at Frozen Synapse for a good success story. 400k copies at £20 a pop. Then a bucket load more in a sale. Then a bucket load more in a bundle. Plus sales from their own site. The PC market is very healthy. Cave would make money I reckon, especially as its only a port.

[n0rtygames]

Anyone actually know how many Ikaruga shifted? I can't seem to find concrete numbers on that :<

[thetricker24]

Cave won't be making any new arcade STGs for the forseeable future, and they've already declared that they will no longer be producing their own ports for the home market, so petitioning Cave directly is a waste of time.

The only way these games will be released on PC or any other platform is via a third-party licensee, ie someone who licenses the games from CAVE and handles/publishes the ports themselves, but no (western) publisher is gonna do that unless they believe they'll actually sell, and as we all know, petitions aren't worth jack.

You wanna send the message that there's a market on PC for genuine STGs? Buy the ones that are coming or already out--Crimson Clover, Ikaruga, the Siter Skain stuff, fuck, even Jamestown--and then pimp the hell out of them on streams, message boards, etc so that people outside the established STG circles can get excited about them, too.

Of course, the flipside is that publishers would need to make an effort to promote these games if they expect to recoup their investment, rather than just dumping them online with little fanfare, something I fully expect to happen with CC.

in fact, you are right...
what about sending a petiton to 5PB ?

[trap15]

This forum makes my blood pressure explode.

[GSK]

Anyone actually know how many Ikaruga shifted? I can't seem to find concrete numbers on that :<

I've done a little searching, no dice.

Some interesting things I did find:

-According to Asada, they expected to sell 10k copies of Deathsmiles X360 in Japan, but ended up selling 50k domestically (40k physical + 10k digital) and 200k internationally (February '13, source http://shmuplations.com/cave-sdoj1/ - I'm guessing that's probably 200k shipped rather than sold, but what do I know)

-In another interview, Asada says they need to sell 50k copies of a particular home port for it to not be considered a failure (August '10, source http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... -XBOX-360) - the Konami rep responds with a comment about how small their budget must be...)

-According to Maruyama of G.rev, the sales of Strania (a retail-quality STG with a digital-only release at western-friendly prices) sold only slightly better than their usual full-priced retail games (2012, source http://shmuplations.com/underdefeat/)

I also saw some stuff on Jamestown's sales figures, but I can't find the source right now.

[zakk]

What magical world do you people live in that Cave still has staff capable of porting their games to the PC?

[KAI]

Cave selling their games for 5$? never gonna happen.

[ciox]

Anyone actually know how many Ikaruga shifted? I can't seem to find concrete numbers on that :<

This tweet seems to say they sold a little over 5000 in the first day https://twitter.com/TreasureCoLtd/statu ... 3689871360

[cools]

This forum makes my blood pressure explode.

[pestro87]

I was under the impression that Cave had signed some sort of contract with Microsoft to have their games released exclusively to 360 where Ketsui is an exception since the port was handled by 5pb.

[Illyrian]

There is literally no way a company that previously sold horribly overpriced chunks of silicon and metal and xbox games for £60 would get in bed with a platform where most of the shmup players literally have pirated every shmup they have and use MAME.

The reason why Jamestown sold really nicely on Steam is because the company who made it sold it for a very reasonable price and let it be put on sale, and it had a load of different difficulties and modes.

Saidaioujou was worth £30 retail with it's different modes etc. but that doesn't mean that they would get £30 for it on Steam.