Movies you've just watched

[Skykid]

Memento wasn't some basic ass story with a lame hook

I will *never* agree with you on this. "Memento" was a game-changer, and it's one of my favorites. Loved it then, love it now.

It's okay. Gets thinner on repeat viewings and Carrie Ann Moss is shit.

[boagman]

Memento wasn't some basic ass story with a lame hook

I will *never* agree with you on this. "Memento" was a game-changer, and it's one of my favorites. Loved it then, love it now.

It's okay. Gets thinner on repeat viewings and Carrie Ann Moss is shit.

Well of *course* it does...so does anything with a big reveal. There's only one first time watching it.

I understand what you mean about Nolan's dialogue, and I'll spot that *some* of his casting can be suspect (which could be leveled against most any director/producer in the history of time), though I'll also say in his defense that he also chooses several people that can carry more than their share of the load (Hardy and Oldman, just to name two that spring to mind).

It sort of makes me all that more curious about "Interstellar", which stars Matthew McConaughey. I know that he's been praised a *heck* of a lot lately, but I still find his acting to be about as one-dimensional as anyone I can think of. Granted: I haven't seen anything from him lately (the films he's made are ones I wouldn't appreciate, based on their subject matter, so it wouldn't be fair for me to go to town on him based on those), but my first knee-jerk reaction is "You've got to be kidding me."

[Moniker]

The point I'm getting at is Fincher is stronger when it comes to sanding down rough edges. I watched Seven again the other day, for the umpteenth time, and I'm convinced Nolan will never make anything that good. That's the type of film that hits the Hollywood ceiling: one that threatens to break through.

Wouldn't have pegged you as a Se7en (presumably pronounced Se-seven-en) fan. I thought the whole concept was just adolescent. I.e., kid finds out that there's such a thing as Seven Deadly Sins and finds the concept incredibly cool and naughty, and then decides 'what if a serial killer used them as rationale to commit insanely grisly murders???'

I dunno, the whole thing kinda strikes me as ridiculous. Maybe the acting and direction were good, but I just can't get over the basic premise. And Kevin Spacey's assertion that "What I've done is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever." Um, it doesn't take that much thought. Cool Deadly Sins + serial killer. Full stop. Not much substance there. One of the kids in my high school had a DVD copy because it was in vogue in middle school, and he kept trying to give it away, but no one wanted it in their collection. (I actually took it [free is free, after all... I even took that Fuel album that no one wanted] and it remains unwatched in a box somewhere.)

I hate to harsh on something you really like (and no offense intended), but I dunno, a spirited defense maybe? Possibly I missed something crucial. FWIW, I do like David Fincher in general.

[Skykid]

Ad detective thrillers go Seven was a fairly gritty screenplay, but it's the handling of the material that's prominent.

It's a well cast, well-written, well filmed, and well directed movie - all of which make it worth revisiting. That's all there is to it, really. It's one of Hollywood's brighter departures from formula.

Being especially complex in plotting isn't really necessary for steering a strong production.

[Moniker]

I guess I view Se7en the same way that you see I Saw the Devil. Different strokes, I sappose.

PS. (Masterbatory session inbound...) W/r/t TDK and PL, a couple of neato allusions I neglected to mention: Harvey Dent's corruption is symbolized by his coin. Originally he has two heads up, indicating no possible evil, but when one side is scorched, the essential inner conflict of man is exposed. it mirrors the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Also: Batman (the Son, the Creator) does in a sense create Harvey Dent. Before Batman, there was no room for a powerfully good person in Gotham. This is backed up by Dent's admiration of Batman, despite being above the law (and above morality, in a defining sense).

[CMoon]

Well of *course* it does...so does anything with a big reveal. There's only one first time watching it.

Gotta say this is my problem with 'twist' films. Too many of them suffer from being made to be seen only one way (IE not understanding what is really going on), then when you 'get the film', you find rewatching it is ultimately pointless. There are clearly exceptions, but these are mostly where the 'twist' is not particularly radical, and doesn't substantially change the way you perceive the movie.

Wouldn't have pegged you as a Se7en (presumably pronounced Se-seven-en) fan.

I'm with Skykid on this. I don't think Se7en is perfect, but it does most things really well, and to be honest, what it flounders on are the limitations of the rating system, where the film had to infact show more but couldn't without becoming rated X. I also think the last few sins suffered from not being as gruesome/disturbing as the early ones--but at this point the momentum of the film is well underway, and it can get away with it.

Although Se7en was a great experience in the theatre, I still remember vividly how someone took their toddler to it. Jesus fucking christ, you just scarred your child for life.

[boagman]

Gotta say this is my problem with 'twist' films. Too many of them suffer from being made to be seen only one way (IE not understanding what is really going on), then when you 'get the film', you find rewatching it is ultimately pointless. There are clearly exceptions, but these are mostly where the 'twist' is not particularly radical, and doesn't substantially change the way you perceive the movie.

Understood, but I thought (and still think) that "Memento" overcomes this better than others. In fact, the first time I watched it, I *immediately* rewound the movie and watched it again. It also stands up to rewatching as there's a lot of other things to focus in on/catch like one might find in something like "The Sting", which is probably my favorite movie.

Too, because of the way the movie's assembled, rewatching in different ways is also possible/encouraged. "Memento" stands up well to the ravages of time.

[Some-Mist]

Ad detective thrillers go Seven was a fairly gritty screenplay

probably the part I enjoy most about it.

I see that se7en gif on another forum all the time and it makes me want to rewatch it

Spoiler

[Skykid]

I guess I view Se7en the same way that you see I Saw the Devil. Different strokes, I sappose.

You knows I love ya but oh my. Like chalk and cheese.

One film plays the notion of violence beautifully: all allusion and aftermath without actually needing to illustrate the acts, wielding huge tension and intrigue for the duration.

The other is a clumsy overblown mess that wallows in violence to the point of comic book excess, is poorly edited to the point of being 45 minutes too long, and struggles to make any internal point about its silly carry on, vehicle-hopping capering.

Honestly should not be placed in the same sentence.

[Moniker]

One film plays the notion of violence beautifully: all allusion and aftermath without actually needing to illustrate the acts, wielding huge tension and intrigue for the duration.

I mean, I guess it does, but so does any other film noir/detective film I can think of that's really worth anything. Seven's only real distinction is the scale of the violence in each crime scene. Fucked up without any real purpose, is my view of it.

The other is a clumsy overblown mess that wallows in violence to the point of comic book excess, is poorly edited to the point of being 45 minutes too long, and struggles to make any internal point about its silly carry on, vehicle-hopping capering.

Whereas the fuckedupness of ISTD has a real point to it. It's an allegory of extreme grief (and by extension love). The protagonist's grief, and his enduring refusal to give it up ends up destroying him and loved ones who are still alive. And even then, the depth of emotion is so strong that he doesn't really care. Grief becomes his entire being. The external violence is just a metaphor for a person who tears themselves a new one internally. Other vengeance films don't have the same purity of purpose.

My reading, anyway. Perhaps I'm being too generous. Should probably give the film a second viewing before continuing to defend it.

[rapoon]

saw Jodorowsky's Dune at the music box theater last month. pretty interesting documentary about the failed attempt to create the greatest masterpiece in filmmaking based on the masterpiece itself, Dune. Without spoiling to much, many of the artists working on this went on to create fantastic work and much of what Dune represented has influenced a lot of films today (i.e. "blade runner wouldn't exist", the matrix, swordfights in starwars, cyborg pov in the terminator, galaxy opening shots in contact which all originated in the story boards of Dune, visualized by Moebius, Giger, and Jodorowsky). kind of crazy how this failed film went on to inspire so much in the movie industry.

got me really excited to see Jodorowsky's (more-than-likely final (semi-autobiographical) film) Dance of Reality (2013) since it's releasing in the US this month.

^^ I wanna see this.

on a slighty different note: check out the BBC documentary on Moebius (Here). Jodorowsky chimes in several times in the doc about dune and other collaborations they had

[CMoon]

I feel like I appreciate Jodorowsky more for what he was doing than the actual films. El Topo and Holy Mountain are love hate films for me that dance between brilliance and the most amateur of noodling. I wonder if Dune would have been his 'great' film where all his crazy concepts, dialogue and mythical/sexual musings actually came together and gelled. Trust me, I wish to hell this thing had been made, but I also think Jodorowsky is overblown given his actual output (which mind you, I like.)

[Some-Mist]

^^ I wanna see this.

on a slighty different note: check out the BBC documentary on Moebius (Here). Jodorowsky chimes in several times in the doc about dune and other collaborations they had

actually didn't know the Moebius documentary existed. I'll definitely check it out. I just picked up The Incal (graphic novel) recently but haven't really cracked it open yet. I think I'll watch the documentary before I do.

I feel like I appreciate Jodorowsky more for what he was doing than the actual films. El Topo and Holy Mountain are love hate films for me that dance between brilliance and the most amateur of noodling. I wonder if Dune would have been his 'great' film where all his crazy concepts, dialogue and mythical/sexual musings actually came together and gelled. Trust me, I wish to hell this thing had been made, but I also think Jodorowsky is overblown given his actual output (which mind you, I like.)

After having watched the documentary, I feel like the scope itself was way overblown but on the other hand it definitely could have been one of the greats. he doesn't have any "masterpieces" on the scale of something like Citizen Kane. But the fact that he had such powerful names involved is astounding in its own right. I feel like Dune could've been that something. what I really enjoy about his films is the surreal feel which isn't easily or often replicated. it feels authentic. sure there's Lynch and other similar artists such as Jan Svankmajer, but it feels as if there's almost nothing that compares to a Jodorowsky film for me.

dancing with reality looks to be in the same vein as his other work, and I'm excited to see one of his films (not a documentary about him) in theaters.

[drauch]

I feel like I appreciate Jodorowsky more for what he was doing than the actual films. El Topo and Holy Mountain are love hate films for me that dance between brilliance and the most amateur of noodling. I wonder if Dune would have been his 'great' film where all his crazy concepts, dialogue and mythical/sexual musings actually came together and gelled. Trust me, I wish to hell this thing had been made, but I also think Jodorowsky is overblown given his actual output (which mind you, I like.)

Wow, you basically wrote exactly what I planned on writing. I agree, and goddamn, I wish it would have been made (along with the Lynch one, for that matter--I enjoy it as well,) but Jodorowsky is one pretentious, over-ambitious little hippy twat. I like about the first 20 minutes of El Topo, and after that, it's easily one of the most desperate movies ever made, basically begging the viewer to achieve cult status and unworthy acclaim for its philosophical drivel and insipid visuals. I'm fine with the rest of his works, but man, El Topo rubs me back and forth the wrong way.

A wealth of stupid, worthless quotes:
"I ask of film what most North Americans ask of psychedelic drugs."
"I don't live in France; I live in myself."
"If you are great, El Topo is a great picture. If you are limited, El Topo is limited."

With a talented group and Jodorowsky maybe on a bit of a leash with some criticism from his collaborators, yeah, this could have been a wonderful film. I doubt it would have been the masterpiece he envisioned, but it certainly would have been quite the production.

[CMoon]

sure there's Lynch and other similar artists such as Jan Svankmajer, but it feels as if there's almost nothing that compares to a Jodorowsky film for me.

Finding what you like in experimental film is a pretty arduous journey with a lot of directors out there other than the one's you've mentioned. For me, I favor those who don't forget about story and pacing, but then I make exceptions for directors who know how to take gorgeous shots (IE Tarkovsky). I know I'm a pusher and it barely qualifies, but I still love Boorman's early films for carrying the spirit of experimental cinema, but also not forgetting that you have to tell a goddamn story and end the thing before people fall asleep.

[Skykid]

Other vengeance films don't have the same purity of purpose.

You're giving it a crazy amount of credit. It's OTT nature defiles any sense of purity: it just becomes a half-baked slasher send-up that can't hold onto its reigns.

I actually thought it was going to be really excellent based on the introductory murder, before unravelling in an aimless and haphazardly crafted kill parade that loses any sense of subtlety and initial gravitas.

Great vengeance movies are a catharsis, where the payoff is based on deliverance - not an idiot cop who can't catch a guy lining up bodies every three steps he takes.

And Lee Byun-Hun is crap. I've seen a stronger emotional performance from firewood.

[rapoon]

^^ I wanna see this.

on a slighty different note: check out the BBC documentary on Moebius (Here). Jodorowsky chimes in several times in the doc about dune and other collaborations they had

actually didn't know the Moebius documentary existed. I'll definitely check it out. I just picked up The Incal (graphic novel) recently but haven't really cracked it open yet. I think I'll watch the documentary before I do.

hah, nice! I received my copy of "The Incal" today and "Arzach" last week. i chose the UK edition of The Incal. Was a bit cheaper than the one published by humanoids. I read the first 2 volumes today at work. it's well written and the best part is dropping acid isn't a prerequisite for understanding (or thinking you do) what in the fuck is going on.

[GaijinPunch]

As an example, I said Fincher has gone a little fail in recent years. I didn't like Benjamin Button, and although I really liked the directorial quality of Zodiac I thought the assembly and editing needed attention.

Unfortunately agree. I thought Fincher's stuff of the 90's was dope. Stuff of late? Not so much. Never saw The Social Network but I will say that House of Cards is indeed a great watch. Small screen though, but it underscores the fact that movies are getting shittier and TV better . At least for now.

The point I'm getting at is Fincher is stronger when it comes to sanding down rough edges. I watched Seven again the other day, for the umpteenth time, and I'm convinced Nolan will never make anything that good.

I'd love to tell the internet about the first time I saw this, Late one Scary Damn night, but my kid might read my ramblings one day, and we can't have that. I talked to new parts of myself though. Definitely Fincher's best. But hey, I liked Alien 3.

I haven't seen anything from him lately (the films he's made are ones I wouldn't appreciate, based on their subject matter, so it wouldn't be fair for me to go to town on him based on those), but my first knee-jerk reaction is "You've got to be kidding me."

Watch True Detective if you haven't yet. At the moment, I'm happy with the guy in anything. He can deliver, and it's nice to have Texas Pride for a change.

[rancor]

..and it's nice to have Texas Pride for a change.

Oh, you...

[Skykid]

But hey, I liked Alien 3.

So did I. I think the intial shock factor of "shit, this doesn't have space marines in it" was a difficult hump for people to get over, but as pure film making - and despite its horribly troubled production - it has plenty of qualities.

But yes, Seven is his best.

I'd recommend The Social Network if you haven't seen it. It's a very well made movie, with little to no complaints about the authenticity of events, which is unusual for Hollywood true stories. It's well cast and performed - even Timberlake - and the script is solid. Fincher gets virtuoso on the editing, particularly with the twins.

But it's Trent Reznor's score that deserves an award. Understated but hugely successful in making a story about Facebook into a dark tale. The power of music man.

[Some-Mist]

Wow, you basically wrote exactly what I planned on writing. I agree, and goddamn, I wish it would have been made (along with the Lynch one, for that matter--I enjoy it as well,) but Jodorowsky is one pretentious, over-ambitious little hippy twat.

the funniest thing about Dune is that Jodorowsky didn't even read the book. He was so full of himself and heard that the book was great, that he decided to create the movie/an entire storyboard (thousands of pages) based off of something he hasn't read. It's such an outrageous concept. All pretentiousness aside... he's still a very unique person with a unique take on filmmaking which makes his films a bit more enjoyable than they actually should be.

but I still love Boorman's early films for carrying the spirit of experimental cinema, but also not forgetting that you have to tell a goddamn story and end the thing before people fall asleep.

Haven't really ventured into Boorman's filmography so you gave me something else to look into :>

[boagman]

I haven't seen anything from him lately (the films he's made are ones I wouldn't appreciate, based on their subject matter, so it wouldn't be fair for me to go to town on him based on those), but my first knee-jerk reaction is "You've got to be kidding me."

Watch True Detective if you haven't yet. At the moment, I'm happy with the guy in anything. He can deliver, and it's nice to have Texas Pride for a change.

I tried it. First episode, and watched it stem-to-stern. That's almost an hour of my life that I'll never get back. I don't blame him, necessarily, as it was just one extremely long, drawn-out borefest, but I wrote that junk off after that first train wreck of an episode. Just *awful*.

[boagman]

I'd recommend The Social Network if you haven't seen it. It's a very well made movie, with little to no complaints about the authenticity of events, which is unusual for Hollywood true stories. It's well cast and performed - even Timberlake - and the script is solid. Fincher gets virtuoso on the editing, particularly with the twins.

I so badly want to disagree with you on this (especially on the Timberlake thing...), but I can't. TSN was darned good watching, and it may be the first non-comic venue in which I didn't want all of my sense perceptions to be destroyed on Timberlake's account (if you can't appreciate "The Barry Gibb Talk Show" from SNL fame, I'm sure I can't help you). And while I don't have any desire to see him in any of his Spider-Man roles, Andrew Garfield's performance is quite good in TSN, too.

[Some-Mist]

I haven't seen anything from him lately (the films he's made are ones I wouldn't appreciate, based on their subject matter, so it wouldn't be fair for me to go to town on him based on those), but my first knee-jerk reaction is "You've got to be kidding me."

Watch True Detective if you haven't yet. At the moment, I'm happy with the guy in anything. He can deliver, and it's nice to have Texas Pride for a change.

I tried it. First episode, and watched it stem-to-stern. That's almost an hour of my life that I'll never get back. I don't blame him, necessarily, as it was just one extremely long, drawn-out borefest, but I wrote that junk off after that first train wreck of an episode. Just *awful*.

true detective doesn't get good until the 3rd or 4th episode. very slow moving up until that point. then it doesn't get great until the 7th episode... out of an 8 episode season.

most of the beginning episodes are kinda hard to get through
one episode:

Spoiler

oh, she was a part of this church? lets go check it out. look at this, a drawing on the church wall. I wonder who drew it? end episode

but it does get great closer to the end.

I know this is straying away from the topic at hand... but to be honest, I've been enjoying Fargo a lot more than I did True Detective. Billy Bob, Colin Hanks, Bob Odenkirk, and Martin Freeman have been doing a fantastic job.

two 30 second teasers that I love:
teaser one
teaser two

[Acid King]

I tried it. First episode, and watched it stem-to-stern. That's almost an hour of my life that I'll never get back. I don't blame him, necessarily, as it was just one extremely long, drawn-out borefest, but I wrote that junk off after that first train wreck of an episode. Just *awful*.

It takes a few episodes to get really good and the pieces to start coming together. It easily rates as one of the best neo-noir productions in recent memory. The six minute long one-take sequence at the end of episode four is quite epic.

[boagman]

I tried it. First episode, and watched it stem-to-stern. That's almost an hour of my life that I'll never get back. I don't blame him, necessarily, as it was just one extremely long, drawn-out borefest, but I wrote that junk off after that first train wreck of an episode. Just *awful*.

It takes a few episodes to get really good and the pieces to start coming together. It easily rates as one of the best neo-noir productions in recent memory. The six minute long one-take sequence at the end of episode four is quite epic.

I guess it's just not something I'm able to withstand. Guess I'm just too "instant gratification" for its pace. The thing is, with a title like "True Detective", it implies intrigue or mystery, and that's something that needs to be at least minimally established in the beginning. Considering that there's only 8 episodes, and you're telling me that it takes 3 to get its legs, I'm glad I didn't make the investment.

[Some-Mist]

but if you're a "true" detective, the job isn't all flash... there's a lot of paperwork that comes along with the job

[Acid King]

I guess it's just not something I'm able to withstand. Guess I'm just too "instant gratification" for its pace. The thing is, with a title like "True Detective", it implies intrigue or mystery, and that's something that needs to be at least minimally established in the beginning. Considering that there's only 8 episodes, and you're telling me that it takes 3 to get its legs, I'm glad I didn't make the investment.

It takes a few episodes to develop, yes, but I don't consider it a problem since the early episodes establish the characters and are important in drawing the opening arc of the mystery. It's a slow burn at first but when it comes to a full boil it gets really good. I don't blame you for not investing the time or finding it slow but writing off the show because of that is kind of a shit thing to do.

[emphatic]

While I thought True Detective was good, it's not nearly as good as Hannibal, and that's a friggin' Network show.

[Skykid]

I so badly want to disagree with you on this

I really don't understand that attitude.

Why would you go into a conversation wanting to disagree?